What does the Law REALLY say?

[KohenMatt]

If we look at the majority of the Law-related threads, there are usually very few references to the laws themselves. Instead, they are usually referred to as a whole unit and judged or analyzed as such. These laws are usually deemed to be burdensome and inapplicable to Christians today. However, when these commands are looked individually and on their own merit, they can provide great insight and application for Christians today. While some of them are in fact not applicable due to there being no temple, the majority of them are.

So for the sake of information and clarity, I'll be posting the actual commands and verses of all 613 laws in groups of their relevant sections (not all at once). I'm using the grouping and ordering as compiled by the Jewish scholar Maimonides, aka Rambam.

 

[KohenMatt]

RELATIONSHIP TO GOD

1 Exodus 20:2 - To believe in God.
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.


2 Deuteronomy 6:4 - To acknowledge the Unity of God.
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:


3 Deuteronomy 6:5 - To love God.
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


4 Deuteronomy 6:13 - To fear God.
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.


5 Exodus 23:25; Deuteronomy 11:13; 13:4 - To serve God.
And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.


6 Deuteronomy 10:20 - To cleave to God.
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.


7 Deuteronomy 10:20 - On taking an oath by God's Name.
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.


8 Deuteronomy 28:9 - On walking in God's ways.
The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.


9 Leviticus 22:32 - On Sanctifying God's Name.
Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the Lord which hallow you,

 

[phil112]

..................................... While some of them are in fact not applicable due to there being no temple, the majority of them are.....................

Start with the ones that are authorized by the new testament for the gentile. Tell us what bible you are using, because mine doesn't have that part in it.

 

[KohenMatt]

Start with the ones that are authorized by the new testament for the gentile. Tell us what bible you are using, because mine doesn't have that part in it.

For this particular thread, I'm not looking at the NT. I'm just showing what the Law itself says as found in the OT.

And it appears these verses are taken out of the KJV.

 

[phil112]

For this particular thread, I'm not looking at the NT. I'm just showing what the Law itself says as found in the OT.

And it appears these verses are taken out of the KJV.

You said the majority of them still apply. I am asking you to provide specific biblical support of that. The new testament has superceded the old, and the bible clearly states that. Consequently if the law is still applicable you will be able to support that statement from the new testament, and show it applies to gentiles.

 

[JaumeJ]

One odd point. People continually remind others that the law is our tutor or in other translations, guardian, until Yeshua. I would like to know just how much of the law these folks know of before claiming to have been tutored before coming to the grace of Yeshua.

Yes, the law is spiritual, but how is it those who are spirit filled do not understand the law without the curse, thanks to Yeshua, is good and holy.

Yes, people are very quick to say they obey the law of faith and all law in the spirit without having ever learned anything of th elaw. Had they bothered to know the laws, they would be blessed with the prophecy and wisdom of the law, and they would see it not only points to Yeshua, it leads all to Yeshua.

It is suspicious when people condemn the law who claim to have been tutored by it, for had they been tutored by it, it would not cause such fear once they come to the feet of our Lord on the cross. He had company on the cross, that being the curse of the law.

 

[KohenMatt]

You said the majority of them still apply. I am asking you to provide specific biblical support of that. The new testament has superceded the old, and the bible clearly states that. Consequently if the law is still applicable you will be able to support that statement from the new testament, and show it applies to gentiles.

Again, I'm looking specifically at what the OT Law says. As far as it's application, I'm not approaching it from a NT standard (that can and probably should be addressed in a separate thread). My approach is that it's application can be found in reading an individual law and asking, "Can I apply this to my own life and would it be beneficial to do so?"

 

[crossnote]

LOOK OUT!

 

[phil112]

Again, I'm looking specifically at what the OT Law says. As far as it's application, I'm not approaching it from a NT standard (that can and probably should be addressed in a separate thread). My approach is that it's application can be found in reading an individual law and asking, "Can I apply this to my own life and would it be beneficial to do so?"

If you are only looking at the old testament, who is this group of people that you claim the majority of the law applies to?

 

[Brother_Don]

i wonder what some think it means when we are conformed to the image of our Lord. Romans 8:29 says we are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Romans 12:2 says don't be conformed by the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

 

[chubbena]

Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Does the "man" here refers to the Jews only?
Does "every word" here not include the law?
Is "the mouth of God" not the Word of God?

 

[KohenMatt]

If you are only looking at the old testament, who is this group of people that you claim the majority of the law applies to?

Phil, can you find any sort of beneficial application in paying attention to or doing any of these commands?

Are these good things to do in your life?

Yes or no?

If you can't, or refuse to answer this, you're missing the point of the whole OP and aren't adding anything to it other than derailing it into a thread that already exists many times over.

 

[2Thewaters]

If we look at the majority of the Law-related threads, there are usually very few references to the laws themselves. Instead, they are usually referred to as a whole unit and judged or analyzed as such. These laws are usually deemed to be burdensome and inapplicable to Christians today. However, when these commands are looked individually and on their own merit, they can provide great insight and application for Christians today. While some of them are in fact not applicable due to there being no temple, the majority of them are.

So for the sake of information and clarity, I'll be posting the actual commands and verses of all 613 laws in groups of their relevant sections (not all at once). I'm using the grouping and ordering as compiled by the Jewish scholar Maimonides, aka Rambam.

WHICH LAW?

the circumcision sacrifice law
OR
the ten commandments?


Gen lev deut says there are two laws
one inside the ark wich is forver
and one in a pocket outside the ark with sacrifices and circumcision

which law you talking about?


Then since the circumcision law is over

lets talk ten commandments


I LOVE YOU!

that is what the ten commandments really says
I love YOU

I love my parents, I love my neighbor, and I love God above my pastor.

those who say the law is done away
say they nailed loving others to the cross
craxy people. no way.


yesI love my God above any priest

yes I love my God and his word ABOVE any
traditions of the fathers

in fact the traditions of the fathers are errors since men make mistakes and cotrl people

the tradition of burning people who will not worship God but will pray to a cracker is obviously error.
l for they lead astray

that is why he devil HATES the ten commandments and works day and night to invent reasons to
say they are done

they are not eliminated no matter what you are confused about
they remain forever.

cause he is the devi;
he is trying to kill you

we need the law
to show us when we HATE people
we dont know love or hate

some people teach
love your country and go kill people who dont believe like us

that is hate not love
read the law

thou shalt not kill
any reason

you killing brown people in the orient?
you have no love

you porking your neighbors wife?
you are a selfish pig and hate God and hate your neighbor

you stealing from the bank?
you hate businesses and others

you covet things?
you hate your neighber

we need the ten commandments

for without the ten commandments we would have a horrible world and the perverts would take over hollywood and the mafia would take over the goevernment and...
wait....
I think we have already proven what kind of world we would have without the ten commandments

where 1 % of the people have 99% of the money

god will destroy the evil ones pretty soon.

those who dont keep the law


I give you power to never hurt people again
I give you power to love God with all your heart and soul
I write Love into your heart

if you are not doing th law it shows YOU ARE NOT LOVE!

why in the world would anyone even conceive of doing away t=with the ten commandments?

 

[crossnote]

2Thewaters writes, "...and the perverts would take over hollywood".

Hello?

 

[2Thewaters]

Some people will do anything for love and power,
they hate god and righteousness
and God says he will remove them with the plagues
you can do what you want
those who teach the law is not in effect will be removed

Matthew 5:19 ASVAmerican Standard Version
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 ASV | Read Matthew 5:19 ASV in parallel
Matthew 5:19 BBEBible in Basic English
Whoever then goes against the smallest of these laws, teaching men to do the same, will be named least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who keeps the laws, teaching others to keep them, will be named great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 BBE | Read Matthew 5:19 BBE in parallel
Matthew 5:19 CEBCommon English Bible
Therefore, whoever ignores one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called the lowest in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps these commands and teaches people to keep them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 CEB | Read Matthew 5:19 CEB in parallel
Matthew 5:19 CJBComplete Jewish Bible
So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read Matthew 5 CJB | Read Matthew 5:19 CJB in parallel
Matthew 5:19 RHEDouay-Rheims
He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 RHE | Read Matthew 5:19 RHE in parallel
Matthew 5:19 ESVEnglish Standard Version
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 ESV | Read Matthew 5:19 ESV in parallel
Matthew 5:19 GWGOD'S WORD Translation
So whoever sets aside any command that seems unimportant and teaches others to do the same will be unimportant in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches what the commands say will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 GW | Read Matthew 5:19 GW in parallel
Matthew 5:19 GNTGood News Translation
So then, whoever disobeys even the least important of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be least in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 GNT | Read Matthew 5:19 GNT in parallel
Matthew 5:19 HNVHebrew Names Version
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least mitzvot, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read Matthew 5 HNV | Read Matthew 5:19 HNV in parallel
Matthew 5:19 CSBHolman Christian Standard
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches [these commandments] will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 CSB | Read Matthew 5:19 CSB in parallel
Matthew 5:19 KJVKing James Version
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 KJV | Read Matthew 5:19 KJV in parallel | Interlinear view
Matthew 5:19 LEBLexham English Bible
Therefore whoever abolishes one of the least of these commandments and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever keeps [them] and teaches [them], this person will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 LEB | Read Matthew 5:19 LEB in parallel
Matthew 5:19 NASNew American Standard
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 NAS | Read Matthew 5:19 NAS in parallel | Interlinear view
Matthew 5:19 NCVNew Century Version
Whoever refuses to obey any command and teaches other people not to obey that command will be the least important in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys the commands and teaches other people to obey them will be great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 NCV | Read Matthew 5:19 NCV in parallel
Matthew 5:19 NIRVNew International Reader's Version
"Do not break even one of the least important commandments. And do not teach others to break them. If you do, you will be called the least important person in the kingdom of heaven. Instead, practice and teach these commands. Then you will be called important in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 NIRV | Read Matthew 5:19 NIRV in parallel
Matthew 5:19 NIVNew International Version
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read Matthew 5 NIV | Read Matthew 5:19 NIV in parallel


Matthew 5:19 NLTNew Living Translation
So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read Matthew 5 NLT | Read Matthew 5:19 NLT in parallel

 

[Timeline]

I believe that it is good to know as much as we can about the Law of Moses. But I do not believe that we are under it. I do understand Phil's (Your-Phil) concern, but I think that he (you) may have been too hasty. I think that most people here know how most of the others believe. Again, I do understand being concerned. So far I don't think we reached any points of disagreement - other than, perhaps, who God is addressing - immediately and possibly eventually (Y'all know what I mean).

But may I make a suggestion, for KMatt, when you get to "controversial" parts of the Law of Moses (as far as it applying today) take a little time to address the application for us today. Yes, there will be heated discussion, but hopefully everyone can make their understanding known and move on.

Everyone should keep in mind that repeating the same thing over and over just makes the thread more of a challenge to read and keep up with. I actually have some hope that this thread can be productive for both sides, if we don't get defensive and mean. To be honest, I have been over the Big Five many times and I get a little confused in several places (ie, white hairs, bleeding, how many days?)

Also, remember these are the Words of God, no matter how we apply them to our individual lives.

 

[phil112]

............................... While some of them are in fact not applicable due to there being no temple, the majority of them are...................................

Phil, can you find any sort of beneficial application in paying attention to or doing any of these commands?

Are these good things to do in your life?

Yes or no?

If you can't, or refuse to answer this, you're missing the point of the whole OP and aren't adding anything to it other than derailing it into a thread that already exists many times over.

No. I live by the perfect law of liberty. The love of God shed abroad in my heart. The law has no application or place in my life.
Now answer the question. You made a statement and presented it as fact. Who is this group of people that the law applies to today?

I believe that it is good to know as much as we can about the Law of Moses. But I do not believe that we are under it. I do understand Phil's (Your-Phil) concern, ...................

I appreciate your interest, but I have no "concern" about what the OP is trying to do.

 

[Hashe]

Where does the Bible say there are 613 laws? This is one Rabbinical interpretation - it isn't in the Bible!
You can't look at 'the law' and pick and choose which bits you like. The whole law is important (being the whole OT). The whole law reveals God's character. And the whole law is now superseded in Christ.

 

[KohenMatt]

No. I live by the perfect law of liberty. The love of God shed abroad in my heart. The law has no application or place in my life.
Now answer the question. You made a statement and presented it as fact. Who is this group of people that the law applies to today?

I appreciate your interest, but I have no "concern" about what the OP is trying to do.

If you have no "concern" about what my OP is trying to do, then please feel free to start a different thread, or add to the 27 ones already in existence, and we can discuss it there.

Otherwise, I'm not going to continue derailing this particular thread.

 

[KohenMatt]

Where does the Bible say there are 613 laws? This is one Rabbinical interpretation - it isn't in the Bible!
You can't look at 'the law' and pick and choose which bits you like. The whole law is important (being the whole OT). The whole law reveals God's character. And the whole law is now superseded in Christ.

You're right Hashe, the Law never states there are 613 specific Laws. But when people talk about the Law, it is usually recognized that there are 613. And like I said, "I'm using the grouping and ordering as compiled by the Jewish scholar Maimonides, aka Rambam."