ONCE saved always saved!.

[SeaBass]

No, my friend. There are no mistakes in the Word of God. For who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27


For as I said before, the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.


Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

Phil 1:5 those Philippian Christians had remained faithful in the gospel from the 'first day until now' So God was faithful to continue a good work in them. So God works in those that obey Him and not in those that obey not for God has vengeance upon those that "obey not the gospel of Christ", 2 Thess 1:8.

The Christian must choose of his own will to do good works, God does not force the Christian to do them. Matt 25 the Christian will be judged according to what kind of works he choose of his own free will to do.

 

[Jason0047]

Phil 1:5 those Philippian Christians had remained faithful in the gospel from the 'first day until now' So God was faithful to continue a good work in them. So God works in those that obey Him and not in those that obey not for God has vengeance upon those that "obey not the gospel of Christ", 2 Thess 1:8.

The Christian must choose of his own will to do good works, God does not force the Christian to do them. Matt 25 the Christian will be judged according to what kind of works he choose of his own free will to do.

It is true that there is always a free will element involved in abiding with Christ or not so as to allow Him to do the good work within you. But it is not YOU who does the work. It is ultimately God (Christ) who works within you. So you can't take the credit for His work.

But what you seem to be ignoring is that somebody that is truly born again by the Spirit will be changed and regenerated spiritually so as to walk in His good ways. What you don't understand is that God or Christ lives within them and can help them to see and do all things that are new. For we are new creatures in Christ when we are born again. What you also do not understand is that the Spirit will guide a person into all truth of the Scriptures which will help them to be rooted in the Word so as to endure persection and the cares and riches of this life.

For what you are advocating is that we can have no assurance of salvation. That we have to do some type of activity next week in order to maintain our salvation. For example, many Catholics believe you can have no assurance of salvation. That you have to constantly work work work and maybe hopefully some day you will be saved. Yet, this idea runs contrary to Scripture, though. For in 1 John 5:13, John tells the brethren that they who believe on the Son of God can know that they have eternal life. In other words, there is an assurance that one can have in possessing eternal life. There is no assurance if you are in fear of maybe not having done something for God last week.

For who was more justified in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee?

 

[Jason0047]

Since when is a command from God is a performance?

No. I was speaking from the Legalist's perspective and not from the true believer who obeys God because they are already have a changed heart and are already saved by repenting and trusting in Jesus Christ. It's the whole point why God says he desires mercy and not sacrifice. It is not wrong to obey God, but it has to do with your motivation as to our obedience. Obedience done so as TO BE SAVED when one is already saved by repenting and accepting Jesus in one's heart and life (As a continual process of abiding in Him) is a denial of the grace of Jesus Christ and what He has done for us. Obedience (fruitful works) and a life of holiness is just the proof in the pudding that you have a changed heart and that God lives within you. People who strive to PERFORM TO BE SAVED and ignore in trusting in Jesus' sacrifice to be saved are denying that they were bought and paid for with a price. It does not mean all their future sin is forgiven them. No. No. A believer must always confess of their sin and abide with Christ. What this means is that some folks who have no real assurance of salvation (1 John 5:13) (Titus 3:5) are taking God's commands and turning them into a PERFORMANCE to be saved. This is wrong.

 

[Alligator]

For what you are advocating is that we can have no assurance of salvation. That we have to do some type of activik in order to maintain our salvation. For example, many Catholics believe you can have no assurance of salvation. That you have to constantly work work work and maybe hopefully some day you will be saved. Yet, this idea runs contrary to Scripture, though. For in 1 John 5:13, John tells the brethren that they who believe on the Son of God can know that they have eternal life. In other words, there is an assurance that one can have in possessing eternal life. There is no assurance if you are in fear of maybe not having done something for God last week.

For who was more justified in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee?

if might just butt in here, we can know with assurance that we have salvation. That's not What he is saying. We can know if we are walking in the light see I John I. If we walk in the light we will have eternal life with him but there's always a possibility that we can walk away we have free will. God does not put a chain Around our neck and force us to obey him. The Christian who is leading the Christian life and obeys Christ has assurance that he has salvation.

 

[Jason0047]

Peter said in Acts 2:38 baptism is for remission of sins. So why would he turn around and contradict that in 1 Pet 3:21 by saying baptism is not for washing away sins? When Peter said baptism is not for removal of dirt from the flesh, this is not about sin. Peter is saying baptism is not like taking a bath to remove outward dirt of the flesh, it's not some ceremonial washing of the body as the Jews had. There is an inward spiritual cleansing away of sins that takes place when one is baptized. Baptism is the answer of a good conscience towards God. Conscience has to do with sin. Sins are remitted in baptism freeing the conscience of sin thereby giving one a good conscience towards God.

In the context Peter makes an OT type to NT anti-type.

OT type:--------saved by water (flood)
NT anti-type:-- saved by water (baptism)

Peter said baptism saves and nothing in the rest of that verse (or bible) changes the fact baptism saves. Being alone on an island alone does not change God's word. What if an atheist were alone on an island and dying of thirst/starvation. Moments before dying he begins to think there is a "Higher Power" and life after death but dies not knowing who or what to believe in. He would have come to believe if only given a chance. So do we bypass what the bible says about belief and allow this atheist be saved in unbelief?

No. Paul speaks elsewhere about how the filthiness of the flesh is in reference to sin because he says we have to perfect holiness in the fear of God (if we are abiding in sin or have filthiness in the flesh).

2 Corithians 7:1
"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

For in order to be clean from the all our filthiness (Not physical dirt), God must first cleanse you, and give you a new transformed heart and a new transformed spirit and then place His Spirit within you so THEN HE WILL CAUSE YOU TO WALK in His statutes and judgments.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
"Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. "

 

[Jason0047]

if might just butt in here, we can know with assurance that we have salvation. That's not What he is saying. We can know if we are walking in the light see I John I. If we walk in the light we will have eternal life with him but there's always a possibility that we can walk away we have free will. God does not put a chain Around our neck and force us to obey him. The Christian who is leading the Christian life and obeys Christ has assurance that he has salvation.

See my recent post above (Post #885) to SeaBass about Ezekiel 36.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

-

One would have to obey based on his own choice to obey or it would not be true obedience.

God is not looking for sinless perfection but a faithful obedience. 1 Jn 1:7 if the Christian faithfully walks in the light then Christ' s blood washes away all sins keeping the Christian "holy and without blame" Eph 1:4.

Its true that the person has the choice to obey,but that person would have to have a desire to obey the word of GOD, and it is GOD that changed your spirit which caused you to want to obey.
you can't communicate with the spirit in the flesh.

whats flesh is flesh and whats spirit is spirit.

 

[Jason0047]

-

Its true that the person has the choice to obey,but that person would have to have a desire to obey the word of GOD, and it is GOD that changed your spirit which caused you to want to obey.
you can't communicate with the spirit in the flesh.

whats flesh is flesh and whats spirit is spirit.

Amen, my brother!

 

[Alligator]

if might just butt in here, we can know with assurance that we have salvation. That's not What he is saying. We can know if we are walking in the light see I John I. If we walk in the light we will have eternal life with him but there's always a possibility that we can walk away we have free will. God does not put a chain Around our neck and force us to obey him. The Christian who is leading the Christian life and obeys Christ has assurance that he has salvation.

See my recent post above (Post #885) to SeaBass about Ezekiel 36.

That was written to the Israel of old, how are you applying that to us today ?

 

[Jason0047]

That was written to the Israel of old, how are you applying that to us today ?

Check out the cross references here:

Ezek 36:26 Cross References (15 Verses)

 

[Jason0047]

Also, the New Testament verses I mentioned in Post #878 lines up with Ezekiel 36:25-27, as well.

Just click here on:

Post #878.

Anyways, peace and blessings be unto you.

 

[newbirth]

No. I was speaking from the Legalist's perspective and not from the true believer who obeys God because they are already have a changed heart and are already saved by repenting and trusting in Jesus Christ. It's the whole point why God says he desires mercy and not sacrifice. It is not wrong to obey God, but it has to do with your motivation as to our obedience. Obedience done so as TO BE SAVED when one is already saved by repenting and accepting Jesus in one's heart and life (As a continual process of abiding in Him) is a denial of the grace of Jesus Christ and what He has done for us. Obedience (fruitful works) and a life of holiness is just the proof in the pudding that you have a changed heart and that God lives within you. People who strive to PERFORM TO BE SAVED and ignore in trusting in Jesus' sacrifice to be saved are denying that they were bought and paid for with a price. It does not mean all their future sin is forgiven them. No. No. A believer must always confess of their sin and abide with Christ. What this means is that some folks who have no real assurance of salvation (1 John 5:13) (Titus 3:5) are taking God's commands and turning them into a PERFORMANCE to be saved. This is wrong.

If we don't abide in him we will not be saved....if we don't bear fruit we will not be saved.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[newbirth]

-

Its true that the person has the choice to obey,but that person would have to have a desire to obey the word of GOD, and it is GOD that changed your spirit which caused you to want to obey.
you can't communicate with the spirit in the flesh.

whats flesh is flesh and whats spirit is spirit.

God is spirit you are in the flesh, do you pray? You are in the flesh do you not walk after the spirit?

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

God is spirit you are in the flesh, do you pray? You are in the flesh do you not walk after the spirit?

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

You might be confusing the soul with the spirit,they are not the same.

 

[Jason0047]

If we don't abide in him we will not be saved....if we don't bear fruit we will not be saved.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I agree that if we do not abide in Christ or if we don't bear the fruit of God we will not be saved. But I am getting the impression from you that you are teaching that it is in you doing works that will help to save you. First comes regeneration then comes obedience. It's not the other way around. For those true believers that are saved by His grace are going to naturally walk after the Spirit and abide with God and bring forth much fruit. For salvation is not magical wish granted to you by a genie (OSAS). Neither is salvation reduced to a certain "To do list", either. For you seem to think that salvation is faith in Jesus Christ (and repentance of one's sin) + works. However, actually, salvation is faith in Jesus Christ (and repentance one's sins) = works. Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). When one repents of their sins and accepts Jesus for real, they are given a new heart, and a new spirit and then God lives within them whereby we allow Him to do the good work within us. If a believer messes up, they confess that sin and strive to forsake that sin with God's help. You can't do it on your own. You can't save yourself. Jesus is the One that will save you. We are nothing. God is everything. For He must increase, and I must decrease. For there is no salvation in any other name but Jesus Christ. So the moment one tries to out do the work of Christ in order to be saved is trying to be a co-savior with Christ. They are hoping to be saved if they just go out there and do one more religious thing. But Ephesians 2:8-9 and Tiitus 3:5 refute such thinking. We are saved by grace and not by our works. Works are just the result of a true faith (James 2:19); And one can be saved RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW by repenting of their sins and accepting Jesus.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

God is spirit you are in the flesh, do you pray? You are in the flesh do you not walk after the spirit?

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

A person can not contact the spirit in a fleshly way.
The spirit can only be contacted through faith.
IE....You look in a physical mirror and you see a mole on your face,if you are minding the flesh you go by your five senses(see,taste,hear,smell and feel)
If you are spiritually minded you go by what the bible says(faith)it says by his stripes you are healed.
what is flesh is flesh
what is spirit is spirit.

 

[newbirth]

You might be confusing the soul with the spirit,they are not the same.

Did you see soul in any of the scripture quoted?

 

[newbirth]

A person can not contact the spirit in a fleshly way.
The spirit can only be contacted through faith.
IE....You look in a physical mirror and you see a mole on your face,if you are minding the flesh you go by your five senses(see,taste,hear,smell and feel)
If you are spiritually minded you go by what the bible says(faith)it says by his stripes you are healed.
what is flesh is flesh
what is spirit is spirit.

Do you pray? ....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you pray? ....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

If one is praying and they are still yet carnal then they are at enmity with God. For carnal mind is against God. So the above passages you quote only applies to true believers and not false believers. For there were false believers who did many wonderful works for Jesus but yet Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. See Matthew 7.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

God is spirit you are in the flesh, do you pray? You are in the flesh do you not walk after the spirit?

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

You might be confusing the soul with the spirit,they are not the same.

Did you see soul in any of the scripture quoted?

No I did not see the word soul in those scriptures so I will try to interpret according to the scriptures you gave

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The flesh works off of the five senses(see,taste,hear,smell and feel.)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

GOD is a SPIRIT and those that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.It takes faith to please GOD.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

At rebirth we became children of GOD,and new in the spirit,but we still live in these bodies. The mind(soul)needs to be transformed to be like CHRIST.In the spirit we know as we are known.

So I mean that the mind(soul)is not the spirit and needs to transformed like paul said and that can only be done by taking the bible reading it and believing(becoming spiritually minded) it more than believing what you can see.