ONCE saved always saved!.

[Jason0047]

Okay just forget about it. Maybe it's just me (not) but I'm trying to help you and not discourage you.

Believe it or not, my reply (Which was said in truth) was to help you. Read the passage again, that says, "Judge not by outward appearance...." And then Talk to the Lord about it tonight. See He what He says, my friend.

Ask Him to lift the veil from your eyes on this situation, my friend.

I say this in love.
And hope you see where I am coming from.

 

[Alligator]

--Those that do the will of the Father enter the kingdom Mt 7:21
--Christ saves those that obey, Heb 5:9
--No one can Jesus "Lord" and not do the things He said to do, Lk 6:46

Jesus' "to do" list in order to be saved:

believe Jn 8:24
repent Lk 13:3,5
confess Mt 10:32,33
be baptized Mk 16:16

Again, your putting the cart (works) before the horse (salvation).

Works and a life of holiness always follows salvation.

Jesus accomplished salvation for us. So all we have to do is receive His free gift (Which is by repenting (confessing) of our sins and in accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior - Believing He died for our sins upon the cross, was in the tomb 3 days, and then rose from the grave). From there, if you sin, you confess that sin, and continue to abide in the Lord.

Repentance or Confession is not a work because it is in trusting in God that He will forgive you. It is in throwing yourself upon the mercy of God and taking it by faith that He will forgive you. There is no major effort in repentance. There is no set appointed time that you have to arrange your schedule to repent or sweat and or work hard at repenting. The same is true of accepting Jesus and believing in the gospel. Repentance, acceptance of Christ, and believing the gospel is not like a job. For Jesus said His burden was light. There is no real effort in repentance. In fact, God is the One who grants us repentance (2 Timothy 2:25).



We are not saved by works. It is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9). For we are not saved by righteous works that we have done, but by his mercy, and the washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5). For Mark 16:16 is not saying baptism is for salvation. Peter already clears up that confusion in Peter 3:21 when he says we are saved not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. Paul mentions how we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh (2 Corinthians 7:1). Both Paul and Peter were not talking about taking a bath.

While I agree with you on OSAS, I strongly disagree some other things. You said all one has to do to be saved is to repent and accept Jesus as your personal savior. But I don't remember a single case in the NT where "accepting Jesus as your personal savior " was what anyone did to be saved.

If repentance and confession are not works, ( and I agree) then why is baptism? All three are demands of Christ and we are trusting in Him to save us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about our own works that we think will help save us. But he is not talking about works of obedience.

i don't understand how these verses on baptism can be ignored. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Matt. 28, Mark 16:-5-16, Gal. 3:26-27, and others.

I disagree there is little or no work in repenting. It can be, because repenting is not just changing your mind, but also involves a commitment to change one's sinful ways.

 

[kennethcadwell]

While I agree with you on OSAS, I strongly disagree some other things. You said all one has to do to be saved is to repent and accept Jesus as your personal savior. But I don't remember a single case in the NT where "accepting Jesus as your personal savior " was what anyone did to be saved.

If repentance and confession are not works, ( and I agree) then why is baptism? All three are demands of Christ and we are trusting in Him to save us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about our own works that we think will help save us. But he is not talking about works of obedience.

i don't understand how these verses on baptism can be ignored. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Matt. 28, Mark 16:-5-16, Gal. 3:26-27, and others.

I disagree there is little or no work in repenting. It can be, because repenting is not just changing your mind, but also involves a commitment to change one's sinful ways.

Also to mention Matthew 25:31-46 which constantly gets overlooked.

It shows two groups in front of the judgment seat ( sheep and goats ). Ones that helped the thirsty, hungry, poor, and in prison and the ones who didn't help them.

Jesus says to the ones who helped come to eternal life, and the others who didn't help go away from Me to everlasting punishment.

 

[Alligator]

Also to mention Matthew 25:31-46 which constantly gets overlooked.

It shows two groups in front of the judgment seat ( sheep and goats ). Ones that helped the thirsty, hungry, poor, and in prison and the ones who didn't help them.

Jesus says to the ones who helped come to eternal life, and the others who didn't help go away from Me to everlasting punishment.

Yes, that is a good scripture. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes, that is a good scripture. Thanks for reminding me.

No problem, I love those verses because it shows two groups that believe in Jesus. Only one group truly believes and does the works of love and obedience. ( Doing for others out of love, because it is the right thing to do. )

 

[Jason0047]

You are right we are not saved by works, we are saved by perseverance to stay true to our Lord Jesus Christ and what He taught.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.


Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

The Scriptures are written from two different perspectives. One perspective is written from our outward perspective about our obedience to staying faithful to God thru enduring and holding onto Jesus. The other perspective is written from God's internal perspective about how He ultimately enables us and does the good work within our lives (When we surrender or yield to Him). For when we are truly broken before God is when God can use us as His vessel so as to do the good work within us.

For Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). If we trust in Jesus Christ to work thru us and to abide in our hearts and lives, He will give us power to endure. For without Jesus we can do nothing (See John chapter 15); In fact, 2 Corinthians 1 says this,

2 Corinthians 1:9-10
9 "But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: 10Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;"

For we have to remember that Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us. We are not alone in our endurance. It's not all up to us. For nothing external can ever separate us from the love of Christ. Granted, that does not mean God forces us against our wills to be saved. But if we trust that He will deliver us, as the passage says above, we shall not have to live in fear of God or that we can fail if we truly want to be with God. For perfect love casts out fear. And our love can be made perfect in desiring to be like Jesus Christ every day. Conforming to His image. Not as a matter of salvation, but because we have been saved.

For the passages you quote are talking about Glorification (Which is the final process of salvation).
For there is Justification (Initial Salvation), Sanctification (Continued Salvation), and Glorification (Final Salvation).

For we will endure in our faith by holding on to what He did for us (Titus 3:5) and we endure by continuing to allow His Spirit to do the good work within us. For salvation is in person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). My arm of the flesh cannot do anything to save myself. I merely choose salvation, which is Jesus Christ and He gives me all the strength and endurance I need to preserve. For I can do all things thru Christ Jesus, which strengthens me.

 

[Jason0047]

Also to mention Matthew 25:31-46 which constantly gets overlooked.

It shows two groups in front of the judgment seat ( sheep and goats ). Ones that helped the thirsty, hungry, poor, and in prison and the ones who didn't help them.

Jesus says to the ones who helped come to eternal life, and the others who didn't help go away from Me to everlasting punishment.

Again, those who help the poor are those who choose to abide in Jesus Christ (Who is the source of salvation). They are not helping the poor to obtain eternal life. They are helping the poor because God is convicting their hearts to do so because He lives within them. Jesus is the source of salvation. It's not in what you do that actually saves you.

 

[Skinski7]

Again, those who help the poor are those who choose to abide in Jesus Christ (Who is the source of salvation). They are not helping the poor to obtain eternal life. They are helping the poor because God is convicting their hearts to do so because He lives within them. Jesus is the source of salvation. It's not in what you do that actually saves you.

It's both.

It is what you do and Jesus is the source of salvation.

Noah built the ark according to God's instruction. Noah DID something and the result was a form of salvation (from the flood).

We build (faith) temples to the living God according God's instruction (grace).

When the Bible says "not of works" it is speaking of "external deeds done apart from the grace of God" or in other words "outward deeds done apart from a pure heart of love." It is in yielding ourselves completely to the known will of God that the light of God is able to manifest in us whereby it in turn manifests out from us. Thus those who are born of God produce the fruit of righteousness (because they have aligned themselves with God's dynamic influence).

It is incorrect to teach that "it is not what you do that saves you" because what saves is "what we do in cooperation with God which saves us." What does not save is "doing our own thing independent of God."

 

[Jason0047]

Remember Zacchaeus?

Did he get saved long before he met Jesus or when He met Jesus?
For do you think Zacchaeus would have been saved before he met Jesus if he gave away half of his possessions not knowing about Jesus? No. Many people give generously to the poor and are not saved today.

In other words, Zacchaeus was saved by Jesus. Most likely when He met Him. For he announced what he was going to do with his finances and how he was going to right his wrongs. This was no doubt after his transformation by the Lord.

For Jesus said salvation has come to his house.

Is there salvation in any other but Jesus Christ?

For changed hearts desire to truly please God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Again, those who help the poor are those who choose to abide in Jesus Christ (Who is the source of salvation). They are not helping the poor to obtain eternal life. They are helping the poor because God is convicting their hearts to do so because He lives within them. Jesus is the source of salvation. It's not in what you do that actually saves you.

Your right they are doing it our of love.

Both groups believed in Jesus as Lord, and you can see that because both pleaded with Him about those works. Because the ones who did those works were surprised He mentioned them, and the others were surprised also because they did not think doing anything mattered except to just believe.

 

[Skinski7]

Remember Zacchaeus?

Did he get saved long before he met Jesus or when He met Jesus?
For do you think Zacchaeus would have been saved before he met Jesus if he gave away half of his possessions not knowing about Jesus? No. Many people give generously to the poor and are not saved today.

In other words, Zacchaeus was saved by Jesus. Most likely when He met Him. For he announced what he was going to do with his finances and how he was going to right his wrongs. This was no doubt after his transformation by the Lord.

For changed hearts desire to truly please God.

Zaccheaus was already yielded to Jesus from the heart. He had repented. Zaccheaus was presently a doer of the word, his rebellion to God had ceased. For sure good deeds followed this but one cannot disconnect "doing" or "obedience" and make it something that comes "later on after salvation."

Obedience and genuine faith go hand in hand and operate together. Noah had faith which produced an ark, sure the ark came later but his heart was already yielded. This is why GOd can justify someone apart from works because God is looking at the inner man and sees the root cause. If the root is pure then everything that follows will be pure.

 

[Skinski7]

What has happened in much of theology is the disconnect of an actual heart transformation resulting from repentance (where the mind changes) and the resulting manifest yielded state.

Many will teach that one gets saved first and then obeys. This is error because one cannot abide in the grace of God without obedience from the heart. The key is a genuine repentance experience. Repentance is the first works and repentance is something that Jesus focused on.

Jesus understood that it was through repentance that a sinner ceases their rebellion to God and therefore can yield. It is the yielded individual who can be cleansed because they can approach God in all truth. We approach God in all truth having forsaken our previous allegiance to rebellion and we confess our crime. It is in this state that genuine reconciliation can take place.

God will not save a rebel. God will bring conviction to a rebel that they may repent and forsake their rebellion. We are to lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the implanted word which is what is able to save our souls.

What can save our souls? Abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. We receive God's presence and abide in that presence working out our salvation in fear and trembling growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We do not take it for granted but add to our faith as we remain steadfast in the truth.

There is much false theology and semantic games which abound, much is evident on this board. Yet the truth is so simple that even a child could understand.

Stop doing evil and yield to God and therefore do good.

 

[Jason0047]

It's both.

It is what you do and Jesus is the source of salvation.

Noah built the ark according to God's instruction. Noah DID something and the result was a form of salvation (from the flood).

We build (faith) temples to the living God according God's instruction (grace).

When the Bible says "not of works" it is speaking of "external deeds done apart from the grace of God" or in other words "outward deeds done apart from a pure heart of love." It is in yielding ourselves completely to the known will of God that the light of God is able to manifest in us whereby it in turn manifests out from us. Thus those who are born of God produce the fruit of righteousness (because they have aligned themselves with God's dynamic influence).

It is incorrect to teach that "it is not what you do that saves you" because what saves is "what we do in cooperation with God which saves us." What does not save is "doing our own thing independent of God."

While we do have to surrender our will to God to allow Him to do the good work within us, it is not ultimately our power or will that is ultimately moving within us (or saving us). You are thinking it is a half and half deal that saves you.

That salvation is Jesus Christ + ___(Insert your name here)____.

However, the Scriptures essentially say, there is salvation in no other name but Jesus Christ.

I can't save myself.

Jesus saved me because of what He did for me.

Jesus saves me now by my choosing to abide with Jesus every day.

Any works I do for the glory of His Kingdom (According to His Word and will) is to the glory of Jesus Christ because it is Christ that lives within me (Just as Paul said). For John said that He must increase, and I must decrease. John did not say, He must join me in equality or perfect unity. John did not say, I must align myself with Him equally. He said, He must increase, and I must decrease. Meaning, that it is a surrender to God when we are broken before Him in repentance. When we are truly broken before Him, then God can increase and do the good works witin you.

 

[Skinski7]

While we do have to surrender our will to God to allow Him to do the good work within us. It is not our power or will that is ultimately moving within us. You are thinking it is a half and half deal that saves you.

That salvation is Jesus Christ + ___(Insert your name here)____. This is semantic games and is the sort of language the celebrity preachers use.. Jesus Christ is not an abstract dynamic. Salvation is indeed "Jesus Christ + Me" because salvation is a result of "grace THROUGH FAITH." The faith aspect is "us yielded to God" wherby the light of God can manifest through us.

However, the Scriptures essentially say, there is salvation in no other name but Jesus Christ. The reason for that is because Jesus Christ is the light of the world. Jesus Christ is also the mediator between God and man. This being so does not mean that salvation is "Jesus Christ + nothing," that is erroneous. If salvation was "Jesus Christ + nothing" then there would be nothing we would have to do including repentance.

I can't save myself. You cannot save yourself apart from the truth. You can save yourself by abiding in the truth. Again it is often semantic confusion. Paul refers to us saving ourselves in 1st Timothy. Paul understood the cooperative dynamic that effectually produces salvation. You'll never find anyone in the Bible teaching "Jesus Christ + nothing." That concept comes from theologians.
Jesus saved me because of what He did for me.
Jesus saves me now by my choosing to abide with Jesus every day. See, you CHOOSE. You have to do something. Salvation doesn't make you abide, you CHOOSE to abide of your own free choice. Abiding is an act of faith. Abiding is being obedient to God's lead.

Any works I do for the glory of His Kingdom (According to His Word and will) is to the glory of Jesus Christ because it is Christ that lives within me (Just as Paul said). For John said that He must increase, and I must decrease. Very true. John did not say, He must join me in equality or perfect unity. "Equally" is a word you are using not anyone else. John did not say, I must align myself with Him equally. He said, He must increase, and I must decrease. Meaning, that it is a surrender to God when we are broken before in repentance. When we are truly broken before Him, then God can increase and do the good works witin you. Yes exactly. But that is not "Jesus Christ + nothing."

The problem with "Jesus Christ + nothing" is that, as far as I can tell, it represents the notion that "we cannot obey God apart from an offsetting saving grace in salvation." In other words human beings are disabled and must wait for God to offset the disability. Both the Calvinists and the Arminians take this approach because both uphold birth depravity which necessitates inability.

The truth is we are able. We choose to receive the truth or reject it. We choose to rebel or obey. There is nothing that offsets any disability to choose.

I hope you understand my fundamental premise.

 

[Jason0047]

Zaccheaus was already yielded to Jesus from the heart. He had repented. Zaccheaus was presently a doer of the word, his rebellion to God had ceased. For sure good deeds followed this but one cannot disconnect "doing" or "obedience" and make it something that comes "later on after salvation."

Obedience and genuine faith go hand in hand and operate together. Noah had faith which produced an ark, sure the ark came later but his heart was already yielded. This is why GOd can justify someone apart from works because God is looking at the inner man and sees the root cause. If the root is pure then everything that follows will be pure.

Let's understand something here. I am not advocating that a believer can accept Jesus and then ignore Him the rest of their life. Their does have to be a yielding to Christ and a broken heart which brings a changed heart and life whereby they become malleable clay to God's will. What I am saying is that once you yield to God. Truly yield to Him in brokenness. Then God saves that person and changes them spiritually whereby God can do the good work within them. Now, can a believer back slide into sin and forfeit their salvation? Yes. I am not deny such a possibility because it happened to me; And I renewed my faith in the Lord and asked for His forgiveness and later in time became baptized. But is salvation in what I do? No. I can't take credit for God convicting my heart and granting me repentance. I can't take credit for anything. I was bought and paid for with a price, my brother.

 

[Jason0047]

The problem with "Jesus Christ + nothing" is that, as far as I can tell, it represents the notion that "we cannot obey God apart from an offsetting saving grace in salvation." In other words human beings are disabled and must wait for God to offset the disability. Both the Calvinists and the Arminians take this approach because both uphold birth depravity which necessitates inability.

The truth is we are able. We choose to receive the truth or reject it. We choose to rebel or obey. There is nothing that offsets any disability to choose.

I hope you understand my fundamental premise.

I am also not against free will either. I am a strong supporter of free will and have argued against many Calvinists for years. Also, I am against OSAS's sin and stil be saved doctrine, too. Meaning, I believe we cannot live however we like and ignore Christ's (God's) Spirit trying to work in our lives. Salvation is in Jesus Christ. Salvation is a person. Not a super power that keeps me saved forever nor is salvation in anything I do. Salvation transforms a person so that they will naturally bring forth works. Sort of like how the waves of the sea are generally products of the winds of the air.

 

[Jason0047]

Your right they are doing it our of love.

Both groups believed in Jesus as Lord, and you can see that because both pleaded with Him about those works. Because the ones who did those works were surprised He mentioned them, and the others were surprised also because they did not think doing anything mattered except to just believe.

The passage you speak of does not teach salvation by works, though.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The passage you speak of does not teach salvation by works, though.

It doesn't. Then why does Jesus say to the ones who did not do the works depart from me to everlasting punishment.

They obviously did not get the salvation of eternal life because they did not do the works. ( helping others )

 

[Jason0047]

Sort of like how the waves of the sea are generally products of the winds of the air.

Let me put it to you another way. Caterpillars don't fly. It is only when they become transformed into butterflies when they are able to fly. It's the same with a believer. When they are born again for real, they are malleable like clay to God's will and plan for their life so as to allow Him to do the "good work" within them.

 

[Skinski7]

Let's understand something here. I am not advocating that a believer can accept Jesus and then ignore Him the rest of their life. I understand that. Their does have to be a yielding to Christ and a broken heart which brings a changed heart and life whereby they become malleable clay to God's will. What I am saying is that once you yield to God. Truly yield to Him in brokenness. Then God saves that person and changes them spiritually whereby God can do the good work within them. I totally agree. Now, can a believer back slide into sin and forfeit their salvation? Yes. I am not deny such a possibility because it happened to me; And I renewed my faith in the Lord and asked for His forgiveness and later in time became baptized. But is salvation in what I do? No. I can't take credit for God convicting my heart and granting me repentance. I can't take credit for anything. I was bought and paid for with a price, my brother. Doing something is not equal to taking credit for something. Noah built an ark and one cannot say that the "building of the ark had nothing to do with it."

You are disconnecting a "working faith" as being a requisite from salvation. I want you to really think about what I am saying here because I don't want you to misunderstand me.

You stated this...

Jesus accomplished salvation for us. So all we have to do is receive His free gift (Which is by repenting (confessing) of our sins and in accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior - Believing He died for our sins upon the cross, was in the tomb 3 days, and then rose from the grave). From there, if you sin, you confess that sin, and continue to abide in the Lord.

That is not true. Jesus did not accomplish salvation for us. Jesus gave His life on our behalf so that we can enter into the New Covenant by Him. In other words Jesus gave us an opportunity to be reconciled to God through Him being a mediator (where two aggrieved parties are brought to reconciliation). You see this in Hebrews...

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; God makes this covenant through the blood of Christ (Heb 9:20).
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, This is very important and it involves US DOING SOMETHING and it is not "accepting Jesus and receiving a free gift." That terminology is straight out of theology textbooks, not the Bible. We have to approach God in truth.
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; The new and living way is where WE DIE WITH CHRIST which is symbolic of repentance. This is where our old man is crucified once and for all, where the body of sin (the old man who served sin as master) is destroyed once and for all.
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God; Jesus is our mediator.
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. We draw near with a TRUE HEART, an HONEST HEART, a HEART WITH NO DECEIT, a HEART WITH NO GUILE. In other words we come clean with God about our former conduct having changed our minds about it. It is then that we are washed of the condemnation that this conduct wrought and we are given a fresh start as a new babe in Christ.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

This notion of salvation being a "free gift" that one simply receives by "accepting Jesus" is nonsense. The "free gift" is the DYNAMIC BY WHICH SALVATION IS PRODUCED. Read what Paul writes carefully...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul is speaking of the dynamic of "grace through faith" which results in salvation. Grace is the QUICKENING and faith is the YIELDING. Look at this...

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Understanding the "quickening" is key. The term means "brought back to life" and it is simply just the energy of God manifesting in our spirit because we are no longer quelling it through rebellion. See what Paul writes here...

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The word "operation" means "energy." See how Paul connects this quickening to being buried in baptism with Christ. This is the same baptism referred to in Romans 6 where we are baptised into death with Christ. It is the death of the old man, the crucifixion of the flesh, the end of rebellion once and for all. This is the stuff that is not taught in the churches and because it is not taught people are not experiencing it. Instead people "accept the free gift" and "trust Jesus" who they believe already "accomplished salvation for them." They may shed a few tears and improve their conduct somewhat but NOTHING really happens inwardly. They are deceived into believing in a "notion" that they are saved because they "trust Jesus" and "want to be better." Yet what happens is a life of sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent because the heart was never truly broken and the old man was NEVER crucified once and for all.

You speak a lot of true things but your underlying premise is clearly operating under the spirit of error because you use the language of deceptive theology. It is very subtle. Satan is very crafty and far more dangerous than people realise.