Israel still god's people?

[crossnote]

Unbelievers are an enemy of the Cross, regardless of race.
In supporting the goals of unbelievers, we have supported the Enemy.

Any money going to arm another nation is money not used for advancing the Kingdom.

Why has my local church been pushing this type of giving?! Don't you see what we have done?
How much clearer can it be? Yet we were blind to it. Our grandparents and parents were blind to it.
They set everything up for the apostate church and Antichrist, and called it the work of God, and we followed in building it.
What blinded us? Why would we think that building a physical kingdom was what God wanted the Church to do?

I should not be on this forum right now. I need to be in prayer. This guilt is weighing heavy upon me. I need to take it to the Lord in prayer, and leave it at the Cross.
I realize you do not share this conviction, but I doubt the Spirit will keep it from you for long.

I can't but help thinking...

Romans 11:28-29 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rascals? Yes, but still beloved as touching election.

 

[Timeline]

That's probably because Samaria was where the Israelites were. What was the capital of Israel after they separated from Judah and Benjamin?

It was Samaria!

 

[crossnote]

Israel and the Jews (who killed the Almighty Jesus) are horrible and committing warcrimes, they also suppress the Palestinians. And people wonder why Hamas fires rockets to Israel? I think it is quite logical when people suppress you and your people! People are brainwashed by the western media. It is sick. Already over 1800 'INNOCENT' people died! Over 8000 injured. That is not normal! Israel attacked a UN school and people (women and children died, innocent children). These people will walk around their whole lives with a trauma. Horrible! That's why I pray every day for the Palestinians and I hope God will punish the Jews and the Israeli government.

So why is it the Muslims and not the Jews rioting in the Netherlands? I guess the Flems are suppressing the Muslims. Same goes for most Europe where Muslims are being soooo oppressed...but blame the Jews.

 

[crossnote]

I wonder if having jets and an extensive military constitutes "multiplying horses". I wonder if they ask the men all of these questions and dismiss them if they meet the requirements to leave. I wonder if they even consider any of these Laws when they go into battle. I even wonder how many of them are really Israelites. I mean, they were scatter for approximately 1,950 years, so how pure could their blood be (unless, of course, God kept some of their bloodlines pure)?

Hitler thought so. What do you think they are, Eskimos?
God's Word said He would punish them by scattering them to every nation where they would severely be persecuted and then bring them back into the land. It's them! ...Hello?

 

[Timeline]

Hitler thought so. What do you think they are, Eskimos?
God's Word said He would punish them by scattering them to every nation where they would severely be persecuted and then bring them back into the land. It's them! ...Hello?

I don't know, God commanded them not to mix with other nations! And we both know that some of the Israelites were excluded from priestly duties because they could not prove their lineage...and were considered unclean (Ezra). I am just pointing out that it would be an act of God for any of them to have pure blood - you know what I mean.

I don't consider myself any particular race...I'm a Heinz 47. Oh, maybe I do have Jacob's blood in me

 

[crossnote]

That would make him a Hebrew/Israelite...

so you are using a specific definition. I use the broader definition as do most the world...lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob = Jew.

 

[Timeline]

so you are using a specific definition. I use the broader definition as do most the world...lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob = Jew.

But, even though you use "Jew" that way, you know its not accurate, right?

 

[crossnote]

I don't know, God commanded them not to mix with other nations! And we both know that some of the Israelites were excluded from priestly duties because they could not prove their lineage...and were considered unclean (Ezra). I am just pointing out that it would be an act of God for any of them to have pure blood - you know what I mean.

I don't consider myself any particular race...I'm a Heinz 47. Oh, maybe I do have Jacob's blood in me

Well King David had mixed ancestry, so what can I say? Yet the Promise held thru him.

 

[crossnote]

But, even though you use "Jew" that way, you know its not accurate, right?

Why, usage often determines the definition of a word.
When the world screams ''Jews go home'', you don't think they mean just Judah do you.
For the purpose of this forum I believe that Jew to most means descendents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob.

 

[Timeline]

Why, usage often determines the definition of a word.
When the world screams ''Jews go home'', you don't think they mean just Judah do you.
For the purpose of this forum I believe that Jew to most means descendents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob.

The world says a lot of things that I have no plan to adopt as my own.

I am not trying to be argumentative (unsuccessfully, I suppose), I just think it is good to know that Jews are Israelites, but Israelites are not, for the most part, Jews. 12 tribes, one being Judah, two came to be in the divided kingdom of Judah. The Levites were not counted as a tribe.

 

[Linda70]

The world says a lot of things that I have no plan to adopt as my own.

I am not trying to be argumentative (unsuccessfully, I suppose), I just think it is good to know that Jews are Israelites, but Israelites are not, for the most part, Jews. 12 tribes, one being Judah, two came to be in the divided kingdom of Judah. The Levites were not counted as a tribe.

The 12 tribes are listed in Revelation 7:4-8....the tribe of Levi is one of those tribes.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Revelation 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Food for thought:

Question: "What happened to the lost tribes of Israel?"

Question: "What are the twelve tribes of Israel?"

Question: "What should we learn from the tribe of Levi / the Levites?"

Question: "What was the Levitical priesthood?"

Question: "How was God Himself the inheritance of the Levites?"

Question: "What are the different names for the Israelites, and what do they mean?"

 

[Timeline]

The 12 tribes are listed in Revelation 7:4-8....the tribe of Levi is one of those tribes.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Revelation 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Food for thought:

Question: "What happened to the lost tribes of Israel?"

Question: "What are the twelve tribes of Israel?"

Question: "What should we learn from the tribe of Levi / the Levites?"

Question: "What was the Levitical priesthood?"

Question: "How was God Himself the inheritance of the Levites?"

Question: "What are the different names for the Israelites, and what do they mean?"

I am aware of three places that the Bible lists the tribes - All three are different, if I remember correctly.

 

[Timeline]

“Gather together and hear, O sons of Jacob;
And listen to Israel your father.[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Reuben, you are my firstborn;
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“Uncontrolled as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Their swords are implements of violence.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Let my soul not enter into their council;
Let not my glory be united with their assembly;
Because in their anger they slew men,
And in their self-will they lamed oxen.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel.
I will disperse them in Jacob,
And scatter them in Israel.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Judah, your brothers shall praise you;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s sons shall bow down to you.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He couches, he lies down as a lion,
And as a lion, who dares rouse him up?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“He ties his foal to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine;
He washes his garments in wine,
And his robes in the blood of grapes.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“His eyes are dull from wine,
And his teeth white from milk.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Zebulun will dwell at the seashore;
And he shall be a haven for ships,
And his flank shall be toward Sidon.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Issachar is a strong donkey,
Lying down between the sheepfolds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“When he saw that a resting place was good
And that the land was pleasant,
He bowed his shoulder to bear burdens,
And became a slave at forced labor.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“Dan shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse’s heels,
So that his rider falls backward.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]“As for Gad, raiders shall raid him,
But he will raid at their heels.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“As for Asher, his food shall be rich,
And he will yield royal dainties.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Naphtali is a doe let loose,
He gives beautiful words.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a spring;
Its branches run over a wall.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“The archers bitterly attacked him,
And shot at him and harassed him;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But his bow remained firm,
And his arms were agile,
From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
[SUP]25 [/SUP]From the God of your father who helps you,
And by the Almighty who blesses you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“The blessings of your father
Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills;
May they be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“Benjamin is a ravenous wolf;
In the morning he devours the prey,
And in the evening he divides the spoil.”

 

[Timeline]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now those who camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Judah: Nahshon the son of Amminadab, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 74,600. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Those who camp next to him shall be the tribe of Issachar, and the leader of the sons of Issachar: Nethanel the son of Zuar, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 54,400. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then comes the tribe of Zebulun, and the leader of the sons of Zebulun: Eliab the son of Helon, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and his army, even his numbered men, 57,400. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The total of the numbered men of the camp of Judah: 186,400, by their armies. They shall set out first.[SUP]10 [/SUP]“On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Reuben: Elizur the son of Shedeur, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 46,500. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Those who camp next to him shall be the tribe of Simeon, and the leader of the sons of Simeon: Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 59,300. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then comes the tribe of Gad, and the leader of the sons of Gad: Eliasaph the son of Deuel, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 45,650. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The total of the numbered men of the camp of Reuben: 151,450 by their armies. And they shall set out second.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Then the tent of meeting shall set out with the camp of the Levites in the midst of the camps; just as they camp, so they shall set out, every man in his place by their standards.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 40,500. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Next to him shall be the tribe of Manasseh, and the leader of the sons of Manasseh: Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 32,200. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Then comes the tribe of Benjamin, and the leader of the sons of Benjamin: Abidan the son of Gideoni, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 35,400. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The total of the numbered men of the camp of Ephraim: 108,100, by their armies. And they shall set out third.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“On the north side shall be the standard of the camp of Dan by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Dan: Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai, [SUP]26 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 62,700. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Those who camp next to him shall be the tribe of Asher, and the leader of the sons of Asher: Pagiel the son of Ochran, [SUP]28 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 41,500. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Then comes the tribe of Naphtali, and the leader of the sons of Naphtali: Ahira the son of Enan, [SUP]30 [/SUP]and his army, even their numbered men, 53,400. [SUP]31 [/SUP]The total of the numbered men of the camp of Dan was 157,600. They shall set out last by their standards.”
[SUP]32 [/SUP]These are the numbered men of the sons of Israel by their fathers’ households; the total of the numbered men of the camps by their armies, 603,550. [SUP]33 [/SUP]The Levites, however, were not numbered among the sons of Israel, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

 

[Timeline]

I am pretty sure this matches the divisions of land, but again, I could be wrong.

 

[Timeline]

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, [SUP]6 [/SUP]from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, [SUP]7 [/SUP]from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, [SUP]8 [/SUP]from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Joseph's back; Manasseh' remains; Ephraim's gone! Also Levi is listed, so I am missing something else.

 

[Timeline]

Joseph's back; Manasseh' remains; Ephraim's gone! Also Levi is here, but Dan is missing.

 

[Timeline]

I don't know, but I'd say we see something similar going on with the Apostles.

 

[crossnote]

When all tribal names are actually listed, the total comes to thirteen and not twelve because Joseph produced two tribes: Ephraim and Manasseh. In order to maintain the symmetry of twelve, one name must always be dropped. This is not the only place this happens. For example, in Deuteronomy 33, Moses presents his twelve tribal blessings, as Jacob did in Genesis 49. But to maintain the symmetry of twelve, Moses also had to drop one tribe, and that was the Tribe of Simeon. In Ezekiel 47–48, in describing the tribal settlement in the Messianic Kingdom, to maintain the symmetry of twelve, Ezekiel drops the Tribe of Levi, putting this tribe in a separate place and category. Just as there was no sinister reason for dropping Simeon, there is no sinister reason for dropping Dan. In all cases, it was merely to retain the symmetry of twelve. In the Book of Revelation, three numbers are prominent: four, seven, and twelve. Hence, the dropping of Dan.... Fruchtenbaum Footsteps of the Master.

 

[Timeline]

When all tribal names are actually listed, the total comes to thirteen and not twelve because Joseph produced two tribes: Ephraim and Manasseh. In order to maintain the symmetry of twelve, one name must always be dropped. This is not the only place this happens. For example, in Deuteronomy 33, Moses presents his twelve tribal blessings, as Jacob did in Genesis 49. But to maintain the symmetry of twelve, Moses also had to drop one tribe, and that was the Tribe of Simeon. In Ezekiel 47–48, in describing the tribal settlement in the Messianic Kingdom, to maintain the symmetry of twelve, Ezekiel drops the Tribe of Levi, putting this tribe in a separate place and category. Just as there was no sinister reason for dropping Simeon, there is no sinister reason for dropping Dan. In all cases, it was merely to retain the symmetry of twelve. In the Book of Revelation, three numbers are prominent: four, seven, and twelve. Hence, the dropping of Dan.... Fruchtenbaum Footsteps of the Master.

Ah, but the Levites weren't counted, but Manasseh received two territories - making it 13. Again, if I remember correctly.

Of course, I am referring to the actual land divisions (in this reference).

Just like Matthias replaced Judas, but then Paul became the 13th?/14th?