Israel still god's people?

[Timeline]

13th if you don't count either Judas or Matthias; 14th if you count both; 12th if you don't count either.

But I suppose that it is not our counting that matters.

 

[crossnote]

Ezekiel 48:30-35 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

Why are we discussing this?

 

[Timeline]

Ezekiel 48:30-35 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

Why are we discussing this?

I don't remember, but it is a good refresher.

I am surprised to see Dan in Ezekiel, but not in Revelation!

That throws me for a loop, a little

I forgot about the list in Ezekiel.

 

[Timeline]

I think Dan did something with a prophet and a molten God, but I still don't know why that tribe is not mentioned in Revelation. Actually, it was Benjamin that was all but destroyed in the OT. If you remember the other tribes agreed to have their women "stolen" so that Benjamin could survive.

Dan shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse’s heels,
So that his rider falls backward.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.


This is big...if only I was knew exactly what it meant! It doesn't look good (at first...or second glance...or third...)

 

[Timeline]

Interestingly, a snake spooking a horse (literally) is not a bad reflection on or a fault of the rider. So it doesn't make the rider (in this context) evil (through symbolism). And I don't know if I can accurately apply this to the four horsemen of Revelation! I go back and forth between being able to apply this directly.

 

[crossnote]

I think Dan did something with a prophet and a molten God, but I still don't know why that tribe is not mentioned in Revelation. Actually, it was Benjamin that was all but destroyed in the OT. If you remember the other tribes agreed to have their women "stolen" so that Benjamin could survive.

Dan shall judge his people,
As one of the tribes of Israel.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Dan shall be a serpent in the way,
A horned snake in the path,
That bites the horse’s heels,
So that his rider falls backward.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.


This is big...if only I was knew exactly what it meant! It doesn't look good (at first...or second glance...or third...)

As long as you saw Levi was counted in Ezekiel...all is well.

 

[Timeline]

Reuben Simeon Levi Judah Zebulun Issachar Dan Gad Asher Naphtali Joseph Benjamin - Genesis (12)

East -Judah Issachar Zebulun/ South-Reuben Simeon Gad/ Middle-Levites/ West-Ephraim Manasseh Benjamin/ North-Dan Asher Naphtali - Exodus 12(+1? Not counted)

North-Reuben Judah Levi/ East-Joseph Benjamin Dan/ South-Simeon Issachar Zebulun/ West-Gad Asher Naphtali-Ezekiel (12)

Judah Reuben Gad Asher Naphtali Manasseh Simeon Levi Issachar Zebulun Joseph Benjamin - Revelation (12)

Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Benjamin (10 that are in all four) (+ Levi?)
Dan (Not in Revelation)
Joseph (Not in Exodus)
Levi (Not "counted" in Exodus)
Ephraim (Not in Genesis, Ezekiel, Revelation)
Manasseh (Not in Genesis, Ezekiel)

Genesis - Ephraim, Manasseh
Exodus - Joseph, (Levi)
Ezekiel - Ephraim, Manasseh
Revelation - Dan, Ephraim

Also the tribes changed direction from Exodus to Ezekiel - whatever that means

Ex East - Judah, Issachar, Zebulun
Ez East - Joseph, Benjamin, Dan

Ex South - Reuben, Simeon, Gad
Ez South - Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun

Ex West - Ephraim, Manasseh, Benjamin
Ez West - Gad, Asher, Naphtali

Ex North - Dan, Asher, Naphtali
Ez North - Reuben, Judah, Levi


Well, I hope I didn't get any of that wrong...and probably no one wanted to know (or already knew) - But I don't care, I did it anyway.

And, of course, Joseph is bolded because Manasseh and Ephraim came from him (and neither are in Ezekiel)

 

[VCO]

I find it disturbing that man gave land back to the Israelites before the appointed time.
I find it more disturbing that Christians have been led to believe that it is by God's active hand and pleasure that the land was given to them,
rather than the Truth, which is that God simply allows it exist to bring about His plan for the apostate church at the End.

They claim it is "of God", but have no Scripture to back it up, only Scripture showing that it is "of man".

Men have tried to imitate the prophecies, by irrigating the desert, creating the Iron Dome, extending the borders,
But it is all of man's work, imitating what the prophets told of the Millenium.

The deception is on.

And then, maybe you have not learned enough about prophecy. GOD says the end cannot come until His chosen people are gathered back in the land he had given them as an everlasting covenant, from all the nations where they were scattered. That is exactly what we have been seeing happening for the past several decades. And not until the very last one of the 144,000, that is 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, is back "in country", will the seven years of Tribulation begin. If you want to hurry things along, then may I suggest you donate to missions that specialize in buying plane tickets so that poor Jews can afford to move back to Israel.

Joel 3:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land.

Zephaniah 3:18-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I will gather those who have been driven from the appointed festivals; ⌊they will be⌋ a tribute from you and a reproach ⌊on her⌋.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Yes, at that time I will deal with all who afflict you. I will save the lame and gather the scattered; I will make those who were disgraced throughout the earth receive praise and fame.

Ezekiel 11:17 (ASV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

Sounds to me like you owe the LORD GOD a great big apology, for not seeing His hand at work, gathering the Jews back in the LAND.

Jeremiah 31:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.'

Then and only then will the 144,000 be sealed in their mortal bodies to repopulate the Kingdom with mortals, after the unbelievers are all killed, at His Second Coming.

 

[VCO]

Israel and the Jews (who killed the Almighty Jesus) are horrible and committing warcrimes, they also suppress the Palestinians. And people wonder why Hamas fires rockets to Israel? I think it is quite logical when people suppress you and your people! People are brainwashed by the western media. It is sick. Already over 1800 'INNOCENT' people died! Over 8000 injured. That is not normal! Israel attacked a UN school and people (women and children died, innocent children). These people will walk around their whole lives with a trauma. Horrible! That's why I pray every day for the Palestinians and I hope God will punish the Jews and the Israeli government.

Numbers 24:8-9 (GW)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The God who brought them out of Egypt has the strength of a wild bull. He will devour nations that are his enemies, crush their bones, and pierce them with arrows.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] His people lie down {and} rest like a lion. They are like a lioness. Who dares to disturb them? Those who bless you will be blessed! Those who curse you will be cursed!”

Psalm 121:4-8 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Behold, He that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

 

[VCO]

. . . the Palestinians. And people wonder why Hamas fires rockets to Israel? . . . These people will walk around their whole lives with a trauma. Horrible! . . .

Genesis 25:17-18 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.


Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[jandian]

Media can be very manipulative. We just have to believe what GOD said despite how it looks.

 

[Ukorin]

My discipler, known as SolidGround in these parts, has called me to moderate myself on this topic, and the Scripture and Spirit confirm this.

I apologize if anyone was offended by my tirade.

I can't say that I have changed my position, but I have certainly changed my disposition.

 

[SolidGround]

My discipler, known as SolidGround in these parts, has called me to moderate myself on this topic, and the Scripture and Spirit confirm this.

I apologize if anyone was offended by my tirade.

I can't say that I have changed my position, but I have certainly changed my disposition.

Just keep reading the Word, and submitting yourself to it.
Spit out the bones if you have to. Choking on topics like this does no one any good.

 

[VCO]

Fox News just presented a VERY INTERESTING QUESTION?

In the past several weeks, more Muslim civilians have been killed in Syria by the Syrian government than in Gaza.

And more Muslim civilians have been killed in Pakistan by the Pakistani government in their war against Terrorists, than in Gaza.

Yet the world remains indifferent about killings in those two countries, while loving to condemn and criticize Israel.

Why do they love to hate Israel so much?

Genesis 25:17-18 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.


Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[crossnote]

Fox News just presented a VERY INTERESTING QUESTION?

In the past several weeks, more Muslim civilians have been killed in Syria by the Syrian government than in Gaza.

And more Muslim civilians have been killed in Pakistan by the Pakistani government in their war against Terrorists, than in Gaza.

Yet the world remains indifferent about killings in those two countries, while loving to condemn and criticize Israel.

Why do they love to hate Israel so much?

Genesis 25:17-18 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.


Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

And to top it off, those killings in Syria and Pakistan for the most part were intentional, whereas Israel did all it could (short of surrendering) to limit civilian causualties.

 

[fredjames]

Fox News just presented a VERY INTERESTING QUESTION?

In the past several weeks, more Muslim civilians have been killed in Syria by the Syrian government than in Gaza.

And more Muslim civilians have been killed in Pakistan by the Pakistani government in their war against Terrorists, than in Gaza.

Yet the world remains indifferent about killings in those two countries, while loving to condemn and criticize Israel.

Why do they love to hate Israel so much?

Genesis 25:17-18 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.


Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Peace be with you beloved VCO and others, things can get pretty much stirred up either in the good or bad direction for the lambs and sheep who are witnessing this matter we discuss about. Let us be reminded in love for others building and not for our own personal manner chats. i do too get carried away at times and i am sorry.

So, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, may GOD our FATHER who 'art' in Heaven and Holy is HIS name Help us to learn how, "To serve and not to be served".

This conversation can lead some believers to hate and to, "wrestle against flesh and blood", when we are told not to, for the, "wrestle is against the powers and the principalities of darkness".

JESUS our true friend said this through the HOLY SPIRIT, who inspired the Gospel authors to write that;

"Violent men try to take the Kingdom of GOD by force."

Who is their god and the author of the way's' of this world who have blinded them? As it is written;

"the god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers."

The author/initiator is satan and the rulers are sin and death, against man and angel's faithfulness to GOD.

 

[crossnote]

Peace be with you beloved VCO and others, things can get pretty much stirred up either in the good or bad direction for the lambs and sheep who are witnessing this matter we discuss about. Let us be reminded in love for others building and not for our own personal manner chats. i do too get carried away at times and i am sorry.

So, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, may GOD our FATHER who 'art' in Heaven and Holy is HIS name Help us to learn how, "To serve and not to be served".

This conversation can lead some believers to hate and to, "wrestle against flesh and blood", when we are told not to, for the, "wrestle is against the powers and the principalities of darkness".

JESUS our true friend said this through the HOLY SPIRIT, who inspired the Gospel authors to write that;

"Violent men try to take the Kingdom of GOD by force."

Who is their god and the author of the way's' of this world who have blinded them? As it is written;

"the god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers."

The author/initiator is satan and the rulers are sin and death, against man and angel's faithfulness to GOD.

Just trying to uphold the truth on all planes (theological, political, etc.) brother James.

 

[VCO]

Peace be with you beloved VCO and others, things can get pretty much stirred up either in the good or bad direction for the lambs and sheep who are witnessing this matter we discuss about. Let us be reminded in love for others building and not for our own personal manner chats. i do too get carried away at times and i am sorry.

So, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, may GOD our FATHER who 'art' in Heaven and Holy is HIS name Help us to learn how, "To serve and not to be served".

This conversation can lead some believers to hate and to, "wrestle against flesh and blood", when we are told not to, for the, "wrestle is against the powers and the principalities of darkness".

JESUS our true friend said this through the HOLY SPIRIT, who inspired the Gospel authors to write that;

"Violent men try to take the Kingdom of GOD by force."

Who is their god and the author of the way's' of this world who have blinded them? As it is written;

"the god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers."

The author/initiator is satan and the rulers are sin and death, against man and angel's faithfulness to GOD.

Oh I know we are watching so much scripture being fulfilled. And in the end, every single event that GOD prophesied will have happened, exactly as He said it would. Not that I am worried, because I know I am saved, and I know our Bridegroom is coming, to call us out of our old dwelling place Earth, to go with HIM to the New Dwelling Place in Heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb, just before the real Tribulation begins.

The scariest event yet to happen, not counting Antichrist's beheading those Tribulation saints, who refuse to bow to him as god, is what I see as a Nuclear War in Prophecy.

Jeremiah 50:40 (ASV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbor cities thereof, saith Jehovah, so shall no man dwell there, neither shall any son of man sojourn therein.

WHY would no man travel and stay over night in Iraq and southern Jordan? We can only speculate, but my best guess is because nukes fired from Iran fell short of Israel there.

But oh, do I long to hear the Trumpet and the Shout from Archangel,

Matthew 25:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And at midnight a cry was heard: "Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!"

 

[Ukorin]

13th if you don't count either Judas or Matthias; 14th if you count both; 12th if you don't count either.

But I suppose that it is not our counting that matters.

Perhaps Paul was replacing an early martyr?

 

[Ukorin]

Paul sets out on his 1st missionary journey shortly after the death of James Z.

Some have added to this, and say the logical conclusion is that there are still 12 Apostles in the world today; the Holy Spirit selecting a new one after the passing of each Apostle.

I don't see this as having been played out in history, so I assume it is not correct,
but I also don't know of any Scripture to disprove it entirely.

Sorry for laying down more tracks on the D-Rail.