ONCE saved always saved!.

[Jason0047]

Jason, I think a very common error (not referring to yourself) is a confusion of judgment with salvation. Judgment is of works; salvation is by grace.

Interestingly enough, I think that the thief on the cross did a good work before he died, He gave testimony in favor of the Lord Jesus including, "You shall enter into your Kingdom." Now aside from that good work, we might consider the greatness of his faith: There was the supposed King (with sign above him: Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews") nailed to a cross, yet the Thief believed He would yet be king.

How to answer at judgment, hypothetically of course:

The Preparation of the Dying Man for Appearance at the Pearly Gates:

Q Dost thou believe that the Lord Jesus died for thee?
A I believe it.

Q Dost thou thank him for his passion and death?
A I do thank him.

Q Dost thou believe that thou canst not be saved except by his death?
A I believe it.

Come then, while life remaineth in thee: in his death alone place thy whole trust; in naught else place any trust; to his death commit thyself wholly, with this alone cover thyself wholly;

and if the Lord thy God will to judge thee,
say, ‘Lord, between thy judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; no otherwise can I contend with thee.’

And if he shall say that thou art a sinner,
say thou: ‘Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and thee.

‘If he say that thou hast deserved condemnation,
say: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and thee, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not.’

If he say that he is wroth with thee, say: ‘Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thy wrath and me.

And when thou hast completed this,
say again: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thee and me.’

attributed to Anselm of Canterbury (c. 1033-1109)

Sorry, I don't believe anything the thief did on the cross would constitute as a work. The righteousness of Jesus Christ was imputed to the thief on the cross when he trusted and believed in Jesus.

As for the whole Judgment is for works and Grace is for Salvation.
I believe it is repentance of one's sins (wrong actions) that gets your heart right with God.
Also, believers will be faced with a Judgment, too. So your whole theory that those under Grace will not face some kind of Judgment (Bema Seat) is just not true.

 

[Atwood]

Rom 3:24--grace [is God's action that]>>>justifies
James 2:24--works [after one is saved only!] >>>>>>>>justify
Rom 5:1--faith [is man's only action at point of salvation that] >>justifies

Grace is what God exercises. Many things were done by God for man's salvation/justification. We are now considering man's responsibility, not God's. Do not put grace in it -- that is God's part, not man's.

In James 2, the work which justified Abraham was offering up Isaac. That work declared that Abe was righteous. But that work was done long after Abraham had been justified before the Lord by faith alone and long after God made the promises to Abe in Gen 12. At the point of salvation, the sinner can only be declared righteous (justified) by faith alone. James says also that Abe was justified by faith.
But once a man is saved (only by faith), then his works that follow declare he is righteous;
after salvation, works do justify a man, but they do not save the man; they do declare that he is righteous.

Rom. 4:
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
. . .
13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was reckoned unto him; 24 but for our sake also, unto whom it shall be reckoned, who believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification.


Rom. 5:1
Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Gal. 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal. 3:9
So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


Gal. 3:22
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Gal. 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.


James 2:22
Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect; 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God. 24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. 25 And in like manner was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

That salvation is by faith and nothing else is reiterated over & over in scripture. I posted you a bunch of scripture. Since this system will not accept so long a single post, I add more to the end of this post.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Jason0047]

By works a man is justifed, James 2

He that worketh rightoeusness is accepted with God, Acts 10:35

He that doeth righteousnes is born of God, 1 Jn 2:29

whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT of God, 1 Jn 3:10

So salvation is not possible by doing nothing.

Jesus saves..He saves those that obey, Heb 5:9 and there is vengeance upon those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8

Mt 7:21 he that doeth the will of the Father is the one that enters the kingdom.

Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve wither one of two masters, you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled out serving #2 for yourself.

So are you doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness?

One is either foing rightoueness or unrightoeusness, there is no middle ground. So if one is doing nothing then he is doing unrighteousness




1 Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life"

Eternal life is a promise. A promise is not something yet realized.

Mk 10:30 "But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

Eternal life is not now but in the world to come. This mortal, corruptible body cannot possess such a thing as eternal life in this world but a change must take place, this mortal must put on immortality and become incorruptible to have eternal life.



So the Christian who keeps on walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7 those that remain faithful unto death, Rev 2:10 have the assurance of seeing the promise of eternal life realized. Those that quit walking in the light, quit being faith/quit believing will not see this promised realized for themselves.

I cannot tell anyone I was saved by doing nothing and if I keep on doing nothing I will receive that promise of eternal life.


Tts 3:5 says works of merit cannot save but being water baptized/washing of regeneration does save.

I tell people that I am saved by Jesus Christ and that any good works I do (Which a true believer will naturally have), it was actually not my effort or will to do those things, but it was me surrendering my life to Christ so as to allow Him to do the "good work" within me. For Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. For without Jesus, I can do nothing.

So as I said before. I am not advocating a believer will have no works in their life at all. As I said before, a true believer must have works in their life or it is a dead faith. But you have to realize that these works do not save in and of themselves. It is Jesus that saves both in Justification and in Sanctification.

In other words, we both believe the believer must have good works in their life, the key difference is that you believe these external things save you, whereas, I believe Jesus saves me completely (internally) which then has external results (works).

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, there will be a Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers where their works will be judged and then there will be the Judgement Seat of Christ where believers will be judged for what they did for Christ. But how will the thief on the cross answer the Lord at this Judgment?

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad

So everyone will appear before the same judgement seat of Christ and be judged according to their works. So one's works will determine where he will be in eternity. The thief lived and died under the OT law so his works will be judged according to that law.

 

[Atwood]

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad

So everyone will appear before the same judgement seat of Christ and be judged according to their works. So one's works will determine where he will be in eternity. The thief lived and died under the OT law so his works will be judged according to that law.

Seabass, the "we . . . all" means Christians, not all men. The letter is addressed only to Christians.

 

[Jason0047]

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Atwood]

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad

So everyone will appear before the same judgement seat of Christ and be judged according to their works. So one's works will determine where he will be in eternity. The thief lived and died under the OT law so his works will be judged according to that law.

Not "everyone," but each one (hecastos)

Christians only:

5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him. 10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[SeaBass]

Rom 3:24--grace [is God's action that]>>>justifies
James 2:24--works [after one is saved only!] >>>>>>>>justify
Rom 5:1--faith [is man's only action at point of salvation that] >>justifies

One must do righteous works in order to be saved, as Paul said in Rom 6;16 obedience UNTO righteousness.

John said whosoever doth NOT righteousness is NOT of God. So faith only advocates are left doing their exercises of twisting and wresting and one and two, twisting and wresting and one and two, twisting and wresting and one and two......

As long as you sit and do nothing/do not obey God you are unrighteous and lost, 1 Cor 6:9. Doing God's righteusness is the only way one can be made righteous. No verse says "faith only" makes on righteous....Rom 6;16 OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.


Faith itself is a work, a work that justifies, 1 Thess 1:3; Mk 2:1-5.

The order of events in Rom 6:17,18:

1) servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then freed free sin/justified

Paul put obedience BEFORE justification.

 

[SeaBass]

I tell people that I am saved by Jesus Christ and that any good works I do (Which a true believer will naturally have), it was actually not my effort or will to do those things, but it was me surrendering my life to Christ so as to allow Him to do the "good work" within me. For Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. For without Jesus, I can do nothing.

So as I said before. I am not advocating a believer will have no works in their life at all. As I said before, a true believer must have works in their life or it is a dead faith. But you have to realize that these works do not save in and of themselves. It is Jesus that saves both in Justification and in Sanctification.

In other words, we both believe the believer must have good works in their life, the key difference is that you believe these external things save you, whereas, I believe Jesus saves me completely (internally) which then has external results (works).

Christ died for every man, Neb 2:9 so why isn't every man saved? So who does Jesus save and why?



I notice you did not answer which you serve, so here it is again:

Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either one of two masters, you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled out serving #2 for yourself.

So are you doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness?

 

[Jason0047]

By works a man is justifed, James 2

He that worketh rightoeusness is accepted with God, Acts 10:35

He that doeth righteousnes is born of God, 1 Jn 2:29

whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT of God, 1 Jn 3:10

So salvation is not possible by doing nothing.

Jesus saves..He saves those that obey, Heb 5:9 and there is vengeance upon those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8

Mt 7:21 he that doeth the will of the Father is the one that enters the kingdom.

Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve wither one of two masters, you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled out serving #2 for yourself.

So are you doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness?

One is either foing rightoueness or unrightoeusness, there is no middle ground. So if one is doing nothing then he is doing unrighteousness




1 Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life"

Eternal life is a promise. A promise is not something yet realized.

Mk 10:30 "But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

Eternal life is not now but in the world to come. This mortal, corruptible body cannot possess such a thing as eternal life in this world but a change must take place, this mortal must put on immortality and become incorruptible to have eternal life.



So the Christian who keeps on walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7 those that remain faithful unto death, Rev 2:10 have the assurance of seeing the promise of eternal life realized. Those that quit walking in the light, quit being faith/quit believing will not see this promised realized for themselves.

I cannot tell anyone I was saved by doing nothing and if I keep on doing nothing I will receive that promise of eternal life.


Tts 3:5 says works of merit cannot save but being water baptized/washing of regeneration does save.

So if someone came up to you and asked you if you are saved, would you say, yes?
What if it was a week where you didn't do any major works for God? Could you still say yes?

See, you put your salvation in works more than in Jesus Christ.
That's the problem, my friend.

 

[SeaBass]

Seabass, the "we . . . all" means Christians, not all men. The letter is addressed only to Christians.

Every man will appear before Christ to be judged....And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats Mt 25:32

Rev 20:12,13 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

 

[Jason0047]

Christ died for every man, Neb 2:9 so why isn't every man saved? So who does Jesus save and why?



I notice you did not answer which you serve, so here it is again:

Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either one of two masters, you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled out serving #2 for yourself.

So are you doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness?

You are really not listening to well.

I said I do not endorse Antinomianism or OSAS (i.e. A license to sin and still be saved) type doctrine. Please get it out your head that I endorse disobedience to God. We are not in disagreement that obedience must be present in a believer's life. So I do not disagree with Romans 6:16. Nor do I disagree with Jesus' words that we can serve two masters. In fact, I have used these verses against OSAS proponents many many times before. The key difference between us (is not in obeying God because I believe obedience must be present in a believer's life), but the difference is that you believe works save you, whereas, I believe Jesus Christ saves 100% (Which has external results - Works).

 

[SeaBass]

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In the context of 1 Cor 3, the "work" are converts. In the context Paul makes a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. Paul "lays the foundation" of the church at Corinth and another "builds upon that foundation".

How is the church built? By doing the work of making converts. The Corinthian Christians were Paul's "work", 1 Cor 9:1. So on judgment day, Paul's work, his Corinthian converts will be judge and Paul gets a reward for those convert/works saved and will suffer a sense of loss over his work/converts lost cf Gal 4:11

 

[SeaBass]

You are really not listening to well.

I said I do not endorse Antinomianism or OSAS (i.e. A license to sin and still be saved) type doctrine. Please get it out your head that I endorse disobedience to God. We are not in disagreement that obedience must be present in a believer's life. So I do not disagree with Romans 6:16. Nor do I disagree with Jesus' words that we can serve two masters. In fact, I have used these verses against OSAS proponents many many times before. The key difference between us (is not in obeying God because I believe obedience must be present in a believer's life), but the difference is that you believe works save you, whereas, I believe Jesus Christ saves 100% (Which has external results - Works).

You are denying one has to do obedient works UNTO SALVATION.

So here it is again:

Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either one of two masters, you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled out serving #2 for yourself.

So are you doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness?

 

[SeaBass]

So if someone came up to you and asked you if you are saved, would you say, yes?
What if it was a week where you didn't do any major works for God? Could you still say yes?

See, you put your salvation in works more than in Jesus Christ.
That's the problem, my friend.

I would say I have the hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2, the promise of eternal life 1 Jn 2:25.

Since Jesus only saves those that obey Him, Heb 5:9 then I must do my role in obeying Him...for whosoever doeth NOT righteouness is NOT of God.

 

[Jason0047]

In the context of 1 Cor 3, the "work" are converts. In the context Paul makes a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. Paul "lays the foundation" of the church at Corinth and another "builds upon that foundation".

How is the church built? By doing the work of making converts. The Corinthian Christians were Paul's "work", 1 Cor 9:1. So on judgment day, Paul's work, his Corinthian converts will be judge and Paul gets a reward for those convert/works saved and will suffer a sense of loss over his work/converts lost cf Gal 4:11

Only believers who are saved will be at the Bema Seat Judgment. This is because there is no mention of anyone being condemned and thrown in the Lake of Fire in any of the passages relating to the Bema Seat Judgment. For if there work is not even laid properly on the foundation of Jesus Christ it will burned up and they will suffer loss, but they will still be saved. But yes. They will have works showing their faith. In the case with the thief on the cross: He is saved by the righteousness or works done by Jesus Christ because he did not have an opportunity to do any works.

 

[Jason0047]

I would say I have the hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2, the promise of eternal life 1 Jn 2:25.

Since Jesus only saves those that obey Him, Heb 5:9 then I must do my role in obeying Him...for whosoever doeth NOT righteouness is NOT of God.

Are you Catholic? I am just curious, my friend.
I say this because many of them do not believe they can have assurance of eternal life as pointed out to us in 1 John 5:13.

Also, you keep preaching righteousness to me. I AM NOT IN DISAGREEMENT WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS OR OBEDIENCE TO GOD. Please stop posting verses that I already believe and support 100%. We do not disagree on this point. We disagree on whether works saves or not.

 

[SeaBass]

Only believers who are saved will be at the Bema Seat Judgment. This is because there is no mention of anyone being condemned and thrown in the Lake of Fire in any of the passages relating to the Bema Seat Judgment. For if there work is not even laid properly on the foundation of Jesus Christ it will burned up and they will suffer loss, but they will still be saved. But yes. They will have works showing their faith. In the case with the thief on the cross: He is saved by the righteousness or works done by Jesus Christ because he did not have an opportunity to do any works.

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats Mt 25:32

Every single man will appear before Christ for Christ to judge him according to his works.


Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

What "EVERY man" will be rendered to?

them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,. What is their reward? eternal life, glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good

Who else of "EVERY man" will judgement be rendered to?

them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness. What is their reward? indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil


Note Paul says "do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness"

Each man is doing either one of two things, he is either obeying the truth or obeying unrighteous. YOu deny one needs to obey the truth to be saved. So explain how one who obeys unrighteousness can ever be saved?

 

[Jason0047]

Okay. I am letting you be. You are not actually reading what I am writing. We do not disagree that obedience must be present in a believer's life, but you keep posting like I am in disagreement on obedience. That is not the issue. The issue is does your works save you or does Jesus save you?

Anyways, may God bless you.
And please be well.

 

[SeaBass]

Are you Catholic? I am just curious, my friend.
I say this because many of them do not believe they can have assurance of eternal life as pointed out to us in 1 John 5:13.

Also, you keep preaching righteousness to me. I AM NOT IN DISAGREEMENT WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS OR OBEDIENCE TO GOD. Please stop posting verses that I already believe and support 100%. We do not disagree on this point. We disagree on whether works saves or not.

Not Catholic but I am a member of the church of Christ.

Let me try and clear it up.

Must one work righteousness IN ORDER to be saved? Yes.

Since works save, that is why James could say works justify and Paul says "obedience unto righteousness" Do works alone justify? No. For salvation is a COMBINATION of God's grace and man's obedient working faith, Eph 2:8. My works without God's grace are useless. God's grace without my obedience will not save either.

Since God's grace has a role in man's salvation it can be said God saves or grace saves > not grace alone for grace without my obedience cannot save me. Yet since my obedience also has a role in my salvation it can be said obedience saved, but not obedience alone without grace cannot save.

Since BOTH grace and obedience save, then it can be said "grace saves" or "obedience saves" since BOTH are required. Since it takes BOTH grace and obedience to be saved it can NEVER be said "grace alone saves" or "obedience alone saves"