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Mar 28, 2014
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Many of us take trues out of context, or push trues to an extreme, and/or make broad statements which are not clearly taught by the verse. When we do these things, we obviously twist the trues and create contradictions out of the paradoxical teaching of the Bible. It is better to not read into a passage our own pet doctrines. Please, let God be true. I would like to make a new abbreviation, OSAH , Once Saved Always Holy. This will guard the OSAS from such unholy abuse. I love the truth of both of those abbreviations. taken together. Love Hoffco
You have just twisted the scripture....
The scripture does not teach that either...
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To newbirth., You make a statement, then you quote two versesthat prove my position and disproves your statement. Your first verse proves that we will naturally be holy like our Heavenly Father who gave us the new birth, "called us". The 2nd verse says that we are to be Holy because our Father in Heaven is holy. ;Both verse lead to the position of OSAH, once saved always holy. The only exception is the backsliding Christian, whom the Father kills, so they are not condemned with the world. Thanks for helping to prove my position. Love Hoffco
 
Jan 27, 2013
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If I am wrong then the word is wrong I just quoted the word....

Romans 8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, [SUP]2 [/SUP]because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[SUP][a][/SUP] free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[SUP][b][/SUP] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[SUP][c][/SUP] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4[/SUP]in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
there is a difference, in quoting, and believing. your word, may be wrong, not the scriptures.
how dose this prove, osas wrong. believing in who, then who saves you. is this just, a rerun of my point at john 3.16.
john 3.16. again [SUP]16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
[/SUP]


[SUP]21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
[/SUP]
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To newbirth,One reason why you are get your teaching messed up is the Bible you use. The NIV, is FULL of errors. Please read Rom.8:4 in the NKJB " That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh by according o the Spirit" The NIV. reads"...might be fully met in us..." which implies, we can perfectly keep the law of God, That is a lie. The NKJB implies that we can keep the law of God ,but we don't keep it perfectly. The NKJB meaning is in keeping with all the Bible teaches about the Christian life: we keep the law of God ,But, at time we still sin, and brake the law of God. As Paul confessed in Rom.7. God sets Perfection as our goal, but does not expect us to be sinlessly perfect. And when we fail, we have a guilty conscience and we confess our sin, and God forgives us. Love Hoffco
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
there is a difference, in quoting, and believing. your word, may be wrong, not the scriptures.
how dose this prove, osas wrong. believing in who, then who saves you. is this just, a rerun of my point at john 3.16.
john 3.16. again [SUP]16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
[/SUP]

[SUP]21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
[/SUP]
There is also a difference between mere belief ( goats ) and true belief ( sheep ).

Those who have mere belief, believe in Jesus but still deny Him by their works.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate


Jesus gave a number of things that those who are truly His will do; repent, born again, confession, forgiveness, and produce good works ( helping others in need ).

He says those who don't do these things deny Him in their works.

As the scripture in Titus shows, also Matthew 25 is another picture of this denial.

What does Jesus say about those who deny Him ?

Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP] [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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There is also a difference between mere belief ( goats ) and true belief ( sheep ).

Those who have mere belief, believe in Jesus but still deny Him by their works.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate


Jesus gave a number of things that those who are truly His will do; repent, born again, confession, forgiveness, and produce good works ( helping others in need ).

He says those who don't do these things deny Him in their works.

As the scripture in Titus shows, also Matthew 25 is another picture of this denial.

What does Jesus say about those who deny Him ?

Matthew 10:32-33
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
when did the new covenent start, was that when jesus was back in heaven.
was the gosple spoken to a gentile or a jewish person? was jesus and john not sent to a jewish people.
act 10 shows, jews can not speak with gentiles. (up to this point)


[SUP]16 [/SUP][SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life[/SUP]

did cornelius,(act 10) repent or believe to, get the holy spirit.

when did a gentile get the law of moses? (act 15)

who are you talking to a gentile or a jew?

do you have a point, to looking at, mixed times in history, to prove, that you saved your self, by law or repenting.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
when did the new covenent start, was that when jesus was back in heaven.
was the gosple spoken to a gentile or a jewish person? was jesus and john not sent to a jewish people.
act 10 shows, jews can not speak with gentiles. (up to this point)


[SUP]16 [/SUP][SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life[/SUP]

did cornelius,(act 10) repent or believe to, get the holy spirit.

when did a gentile get the law of moses? (act 15)

who are you talking to a gentile or a jew?

do you have a point, to looking at, mixed times in history, to prove, that you saved your self, by law or repenting.
There is no difference between a Jewish convert and a gentile convert.

When you convert to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior rather you are a Jew or gentile we are still bound to Him through obedience.

Jesus said repent or parish, Jesus said in Matthew 25 ( the separation of the sheep from the goats ) that those who helped others come to eternal life and those who didn't to eternal punishment.

Repentance is not the law of Moses, it is a command of our Lord.
 
C

chatamiga

Guest
This is an example of a doctrine of devils. If you believe "once saved always saved", you are deceived and lack knowledge of the scriptures. Don't depend on your perspective from the carnal mind. Read the scriptures. Salvation is by faith and grace, but you can fall from grace with a continual sinning. Salvation is a one-time experience and a life-long process of being and keeping salvation from sin. Some who believe they are eternally saved and commit continual sin without confessing and repenting(by action) are reserved for punishment.Romans 6:15,16 The scriptures state that we are to work out our salvation. Philippians 2:12 Be a doer of righteous living. James 1:21,22 Believers are to persevere to the end of their lives. They are to live purified, sanctified, righteous, and holy lives. Backslidders in the heart will not see the kingdom of heaven, only the pure in heart. When this backslidder stands before the throne of God, the Lord Jesus will say,"I never knew you."
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To chatamigo, I once viewed salvation only from the human side. as you are doing in Post 1248; But I soon learned that God is the Savior of the lost. And God is a powerful Savior. God saves to the uttermost. God saves His chosen Sheep and He never loses one of them. Please read your Bible and see how God saves and keeps His own Sheep. all of our responsibility , which you bring out is true, But you never being out God's side of salvation. God is not just providing salvation for sinners, God gives salvation to His Sheep. Many backsliders are reclaimed by God. Love to all, Hoffco
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
To chatamigo, I once viewed salvation only from the human side. as you are doing in Post 1248; But I soon learned that God is the Savior of the lost. And God is a powerful Savior. God saves to the uttermost. God saves His chosen Sheep and He never loses one of them. Please read your Bible and see how God saves and keeps His own Sheep. all of our responsibility , which you bring out is true, But you never being out God's side of salvation. God is not just providing salvation for sinners, God gives salvation to His Sheep. Many backsliders are reclaimed by God. Love to all, Hoffco
Amen.
I don't care for the phrase OSAS, because too many unsaved people assume they are saved.
God knows His Sheep. We have eternal security in the Blood of Christ, but we also are called to a purpose.
If a person is not living the calling, can they truly say that they are called?
We don't earn salvation, but we certainly can PROVE our salvation through our good works!
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
Paul said " I buffet my body daily, lest after preaching to all of you I myself should be cast away"... doesnt sound like anyone told Paul of the OSAS doctrine...
 
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Ukorin

Guest
The issue is, after reading the Word, does a Believer come away feeling like God is all about rules?
Certainly not. We see that He is clearly a God who is willing to break the rules in order to save those He loves!
Then why do we often preach the Word as if it is all about rules?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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Paul said " I buffet my body daily, lest after preaching to all of you I myself should be cast away"... doesnt sound like anyone told Paul of the OSAS doctrine...
Excuse me 3rd, but I didn't see the word saved there or "lose salvation" there.

Check out that translation. It is disapproved & the issue is rewards, not salvation.

But beware of buffeting, too much buffet and you may gain weight!

Your post is typical of those who cannot trust Christ as Savior, but think you should downgrade Him to chance-giver. For you quote a verse that does not have "lose" nor "salvation" in it -- and indeed you cannot find one verse in the whole Bible that has both those words.

μή πως ἄλλοις κηρύξας αὐτὸς ἀδόκιμος γένωμαι.

μή πως = lest
ἄλλοις = to others
κηρύξας = having preached
αὐτὸς = myself
ἀδόκιμος = disapproved
γένωμαι = should become


And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: 27 but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disapproved.

A crown (stephanos) is a symbolic term for a reward. A stephanos is literally a victor's wreath that an athlete who wins is crowned with. This passage is about rewards which believers get at the Judgment Seat of Christ -- nothing to do with salvation.

You really don't think Paul had heard of any of the following verses:

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

So you can't bring yourself to believe that?




 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
This is an example of a doctrine of devils.
\

Yes, your post is a doctrine of devils. You would reduce the Savior to a mere chance giver, though scripture tells us that

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.


you are deceived and lack knowledge of the scriptures.
So how many times have you read it through from Genesis - Revelation?
Have you done as I have, gone through the whole Bible & marked every passage on salvation???
You cannot quote one verse that says "lose salvation" anywhere.

Give heed to the following:

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
Excuse me 3rd, but I didn't see the word saved there or "lose salvation" there.

Check out that translation. It is disapproved & the issue is rewards, not salvation.
Excuse me... but I didn't see the word "rewards" there... ;) And how exactly is someone "cast away" from rewards ?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
There is no difference between a Jewish convert and a gentile convert.

When you convert to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior rather you are a Jew or gentile we are still bound to Him through obedience.

Jesus said repent or parish, Jesus said in Matthew 25 ( the separation of the sheep from the goats ) that those who helped others [sic, false. It is treatment not of others, but how gentiles treated Christ's brethren during the tribulation] come to eternal life and those who didn't to eternal punishment.

Repentance is not the law of Moses, it is a command of our Lord.
Now what is your proof that repent/repentance is not in the Law of Moses???

Didn't you argue before (or was it someone else) that salvation before Pentecost was different? Like no one had to be water-baptized until the Law ended? So why are you quoting the gospels on salvation if that is the case??? If there was a different way to be saved before the Law ended at the cross, had you not better stop quoting the gospels, like Mat 25?

One thing Mat 25 is not about is salvation. Read and believe verses that use the word salvation and saved. The only repentance that saves is change of mind from disbelief to belief.

There are no good works before salvation. Only saved, born again persons can do good works. They don't save, but are the result of salvation. For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works.

Why can't you believe God's word?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Excuse me... but I didn't see the word "rewards" there... ;) And how exactly is someone "cast away" from rewards ?
It is not cast away, it is disapproved.
And crown refers to reward. There are about 5 crowns mentioned (victor's wreathes) in the NT as rewards to believers. IN this case the crown is a reward for winning a race.

Your post was typical of those who cannot trust Christ as Savior, but think you should downgrade Him to chance-giver. For you quote a verse that does not have "lose" nor "salvation" in it -- and indeed you cannot find one verse in the whole Bible that has both those words.

μή πως ἄλλοις κηρύξας αὐτὸς ἀδόκιμος γένωμαι.

μή πως = lest
ἄλλοις = to others
κηρύξας = having preached
αὐτὸς = myself
ἀδόκιμος = disapproved
γένωμαι = should become


And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: 27 but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disapproved.

A crown (stephanos) is a symbolic term for a reward. A stephanos is literally a victor's wreath that an athlete who wins is crowned with. This passage is about rewards which believers get at the Judgment Seat of Christ -- nothing to do with salvation.

You really don't think Paul had heard of any of the following verses:

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

So you can't bring yourself to believe that?



 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
There is no difference between a Jewish convert and a gentile convert.

When you convert to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior rather you are a Jew or gentile we are still bound to Him through obedience.

Jesus said repent or parish, Jesus said in Matthew 25 ( the separation of the sheep from the goats ) that those who helped others come to eternal life and those who didn't to eternal punishment.


Repentance is not the law of Moses, it is a command of our Lord.
when was the law of moses given to a gentile.
grace is a gift. after ad 70 again shows, how can you follow the full law ,given to moses without a temple.
who introduced you to god.(if your a gentile.)

when was the gosple give to a gentile, what part of jesus was sent to a jewish people, do you not understand.
history of the bible is there for a reason. act 10(peter was sent to cornelius,first gentile to be saved by the new covent) act 15 also shows this.

[SUP]10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
[/SUP]
saved through grace. what law. was he to repent of(the gentile) full law or part law, ie the could have said at this meeting, keep the 10 command in place, but did they.

shows you this, so shows your quote in mat, was talking to a jewish people, or dispile, again all were jewish. most of the bible is talking to a jewish people. act 10 shows you this, (ie ware gentiles were grafted in).

[SUP]22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.([SUP]
16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
[/SUP]
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
[/SUP]

yes there is, jesus was in heaven, when the new covenent started. the gosple show, a deeper understanding to jesus life. but was he was stilll sent to a jewish people. and in act 15 a jewish person is to follow the full, law. so what law was given to the gentiles in act 15, you cant rebuild change, because facts, that show. religions taboo, to be wrong in the eyes of the time and history of the bible. saved by believing or faith in jesus christ.
 
Last edited:
A

Alligator

Guest
Paul said " I buffet my body daily, lest after preaching to all of you I myself should be cast away"... doesnt sound like anyone told Paul of the OSAS doctrine...
Excuse me 3rd, but I didn't see the word saved there or "lose salvation" there.

Check out that translation. It is disapproved & the issue is rewards, not salvation.

But beware of buffeting, too much buffet and you may gain weight!

Your post is typical of those who cannot trust Christ as Savior, but think you should downgrade Him to chance-giver. For you quote a verse that does not have "lose" nor "salvation" in it -- and indeed you cannot find one verse in the whole Bible that has both those words.
That is about the most feeble attempt I have ever seen to try and explain away a verse. So, just because Paul doesn't use YOUR words, we should just throw it out. Can you not comprehend even the simplest of scriptures? This is not about rewards.

And how many times is it you have read the bible through? Well, you evidently haven't read it enough.

μή πως througWrite: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the
For
[/QUOTE].
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
when was the law of moses given to a gentile.
grace is a gift. after ad 70 again shows, how can you follow the full law ,given to moses without a temple.
who introduced you to god.(if your a gentile.)

when was the gosple give to a gentile, what part of jesus was sent to a jewish people, do you not understand.
history of the bible is there for a reason. act 10(peter was sent to cornelius,first gentile to be saved by the new covent) act 15 also shows this.

[SUP]10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
[/SUP]
saved through grace. what law. was he to repent of(the gentile) full law or part law, ie the could have said at this meeting, keep the 10 command in place, but did they.

shows you this, so shows your quote in mat, was talking to a jewish people, or dispile, again all were jewish. most of the bible is talking to a jewish people. act 10 shows you this, (ie ware gentiles were grafted in).

[SUP]22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.([SUP]
16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
[/SUP]
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
[/SUP]

yes there is, jesus was in heaven, when the new covenent started. the gosple show, a deeper understanding to jesus life. but was he was stilll sent to a jewish people. and in act 15 a jewish person is to follow the full, law. so what law was given to the gentiles in act 15, you cant rebuild change, because facts, that show. religions taboo, to be wrong in the eyes of the time and history of the bible. saved by believing or faith in jesus christ.
The issue you have is the mosaic law.

Did Paul not contend with Peter over this. The issue was the traditions, customs that came through the mosaic law.

Not how one once they believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior rather a Jew or gentile should abide in Christ.

Those who wanted to follow the traditions, and customs from the old covenant wanted to force them on new converts.
But it was determined they did not apply. The only thing that applies that came out of the mosaic laws through God was the moral values that were taught.

Jews and gentiles alike under Christ covenant are told to walk in light and not darkness, both are told to repent, both are told they must be born again, and producing good fruit ( works ) follows both the Jew believer in Christ and the gentile believer in Christ.