The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[Elin]

Good questions Just-me. I don't know any scripture that says Almighty redefined sin. I recall that Paul said about sinning willfully:Hebrews 10:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
********************8
"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Messiah did not come to abolish the instructions or prophets! He came as a servant to do the Father's will, and that is the example He lived for us to follow.

He came to fulfill/complete them and to establish new law (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6).

 

[Elin]

So very much wrong here............sigh...........

Now there are many professing Christians who will say that the covenant of the Old Testament is obsolete and void because Israel didn't live up to the requirements and statutes of God. They will never say that God was guilty of breaking covenant, even though they say that the covenant is disannulled and obsolete.

Why say something that isn't true? God did not "break" the Covenant, He FULFILLED the Covenant............the unbelieving Jews broke the Covenant, not God.

Yes, we do say it has waxed old........because the Bible says so........goodness........

As for the rest of your OP, it is fairly clear you have no concept of Law vs. Grace concerning the First and New Covenants.

Jesus FULFILLED THE LAW! JESUS FULFILLED THE FIRST COVENANT...........and He gave rise to the NEW COVENANT, GRACE.

It isn't brain surgery.............goodness........just read your Bible

It's not about lack of information or truth.

It's about unbelief.

 

[Elin]

Salvation is being delivered from a certain dreadful consequence, according to the righteous judgment of God. Those that were of an upright heart and presented to the temple priest a sacrifice, or offering of their own free will, their transgression was forgiven according to God's temple ordinances. Through this kind of faith, sincerity, fear of the Lord God, that instigated obedience unto God they were justified, and saved. The law by itself never justified anyone, and in my opening post I never mentioned the law. That is not the focus of this thread. The temple sacrifices, and offerings of the old covenant is what I am addressing. Granted the temple worship of both old and new covenants are ordinances (laws if you will) given by God, not man.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

The above scripture is under the old covenant statutes. The following 3 scripture references are a reaffirmation of the above.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written , The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

They were given atonement for their sin by the priest's sacrifice for himself, through their sacrifice given to the priest to divide the offering/sacrifice according to the statues given by God brought salvation.

Romans 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Again I say that the new covenant revolves around sacrifice, same as the old. The new is better than the old.

The new covenant is based on grace, the old covenant is based on law.

They are anything but the same, they couldn't be more different.

 

[Elin]

The reason I called it that way is because Jesus is also created the old covenant.
In truth we can also say the "Old Covenant of Jesus Christ."

Except the old covenant was made with the Father, not the Son.

That's you misapplying and shoe horning again.

 

[Elin]

I'm not addressing "law versus grace." as I have said in post #12,
the OP doesn't mention the law.

You mentioned law vs. grace when you mentioned the obsolete old covenant and the new covenant.

 

[chubbena]

That explains a lot!

What we have here is unbelief.

Q.E.D.

It's great. Finally one can see how absurd it can be by taking out any part of the bible which is a result of unbelief.

 

[Elin]

here we go again....
how many people in the new testament will be saved by speaking against the law?

Salvation is not by speaking.

Salvation is by believing. . .and that includes the gospel Paul presented.

The smart money is on those who agree with Paul.

 

[chubbena]

Except the old covenant was made with the Father, not the Son.

That's you misapplying and shoe horning again.

Unless the Son is a rebellious one who made His Will obsolete and ate His own word.

 

[chubbena]

Salvation is not by speaking.

Salvation is by believing. . .and that includes the gospel Paul presented.

The smart money is on those who agree with Paul.

Unless one considers Paul a liar because he said he believed everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

 

[just-me]

The old covenant was for the Israel nation.
The new covenant was for the Israel nation also.
The letter to the Hebrews was for the Hebrews i.e. the Israel nation about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Galatians was for the Galatians about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Romans was for the Romans about two thousand years ago.
The letter to.....guess you've got the idea. None of them are relevant.
Not to mention the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Can we just discuss without quoting anything from this 2000 year old bible?

Facetious as this is, it sure speaks volumes. According to post #18 is it any wonder why love is waxing cold? The old covenant is where love (in detail) is endorsed, yet we all say that we fulfill the law by loving God and each other. By what standards do we exact that love if the instructions no longer apply because of a new covenant?

 

[just-me]

The new covenant is based on grace, the old covenant is based on law.

They are anything but the same, they couldn't be more different.

Where's the love?

 

[just-me]

Except the old covenant was made with the Father, not the Son.

That's you misapplying and shoe horning again.

So you're saying Jesus is not the creator of all things?

 

[biscuit]

That's why it is so important to have a solid understanding of both OT & NT. One represents the hand while the other is the glove. They co-exist & interwoven just like the Holy Trinity.

I am just appalled as to the number of Christians who are not familiar with the Bible (OT & NT).

 

[just-me]

You mentioned law vs. grace when you mentioned the obsolete old covenant and the new covenant.

Then in your opinion do you believe that God never had any grace until the fulfillment of Jesus Christ?

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Was God not already telling us his plan to take Adultress Israel back one day if she stops sinning?

Hosea 3:1-5
1The Lord said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.”
2So I bought her for fifteen shekels[SUP]a[/SUP] of silver and about a homer and a lethek[SUP]b[/SUP] of barley. 3Then I told her, “You are to live with me many days; you must not be a prostitute or be intimate with any man, and I will behave the same way toward you.”
4For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods. 5Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days.

Is the Old Covenant really gone? God already tells Israel that if they do not Obey him they will be cursed and dispersed among the nations and when they obey him with all their heart he will restore them and bring them back.
This was promised under the Old Covenant and
sounds like a unilateral contract.

Promises are not covenants, unilateral or otherwise.

If Israel does not obey God will curse them but once they Obey they will be restored. Even though Israel agreed to the contract God still dictates the terms.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5
1When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, 2and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[SUP]a[/SUP] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your
God will gather you and bring you back.

Fulfilled in the return from Babylonian exile.

And they proceeded to mangle the covenant again.

So "God found fault with the people" and "place was sought for a new." (Heb 8:7-8)

 

[just-me]

Salvation is not by speaking.

Salvation is by believing. . .and that includes the gospel Paul presented.

The smart money is on those who agree with Paul.

Glad you admit that. Here's Paul speaking
Acts 24:13-14
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

You're ranting is telling on you. I believe as Paul did. You don't

 

[Elin]

It's great. Finally one can see
how absurd it can be by taking out any part of the bible which is a result of unbelief.

Red herring.

It's not about taking out any part of the Bible,
it's about believing what was spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
regarding those parts.

 

[chubbena]

Facetious as this is, it sure speaks volumes. According to post #18 is it any wonder why love is waxing cold? The old covenant is where love (in detail) is endorsed, yet we all say that we fulfill the law by loving God and each other. By what standards do we exact that love if the instructions no longer apply because of a new covenant?

Is one expected to be serious with scoffers of the scripture whom not only tear it into pieces but also bite back with what's remained?
They are following exactly the attitude of Israel which Isaiah recorded: Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel.
This is what the LORD says through Jeremiah: "Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, 'We will not walk in it'."
Nothing could stop them if all they want is their own covenant with death.

 

[Elin]

Except the old covenant was made with the Father, not the Son.

That's you misapplying and shoe horning again.

Unless the Son is a rebellious one who made His Will obsolete and ate His own word.

Not sure how you're relating that to

"This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." (Lk 22:20)

 

[Elin]

Unless one considers
Paul a liar because he said he believed everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

And so do I, including what was spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers regarding them.