The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[Elin]

Nowhere is there any implication that God had to break the Old Covenant for the new one to take place.

Right, God never breaks covenants, only its recipients do.

It's just like the government finding fault with the idea that black people should be subordinate to white people. A new law came in, and the old was done away with. You can still live under the old law and treat black people like crap, but it has no legal bearing because the government has moved onto something better. People living under the law are just living under an obsolete legislation. It is holy, but it has no power to make us holy. So God's new legislation is to impute His righteousness to us apart from our works and our deeds.

Hebrews 8:8-12
8 But God himself found fault with the old one when he said: "The day will come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 9 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the Lord. 10 But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds so they will understand them, and I will write them on their hearts so they will obey them. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their family, saying, 'You should know the Lord.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will already know me. 12 And I will forgive their wrongdoings, and I will never again remember their sins."

 

[Elin]

It is very interesting because
these are miracles told by priests who do not believe Yehoshua is the Messiah.

Did the miracles convince them?

 

[just-me]

Psalm 89:34 My covenant will I not break , nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

So how would one reconcile these scriptures?

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed , and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out , and who shall turn it back ?

Galatains 3:17 And this I say , that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul , that it should make the promise of none effect .

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Psalm 89:34 My covenant will I not break , nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Previously addressed, numerous times.

So how would one reconcile these scriptures?

You have to know the NT and its meaning,
and understand the revelation spoken by the prophets of old
in the light of the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed , and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out , and who shall turn it back ?

If you are saying this applies to the Sinaitic covenant,
then you have to know the meaning of bilateral covenant to correctly apply to it
Is 14:26-27 on God's sovereignty.

Galatains 3:17 And this I say , that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul , that it should make the promise of none effect .

Gal 3:16-18 is speaking of the Abrahamic covenant, not the Sinaitic covenant.

 

[fredjames]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Correct. And even the spiritual princilple of keeping "the Sabbath day holy" still applies as resting in Christ Jesus. The writer of Hebrews explains.....
Hebrews 4:1-10
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy .

In Hebrews, the rest in CHRIST, is the New Covenant, forgiven of the past that born again have no rest here on earth but a race everyday, to preach the Gospel and liberate the ignorance of this world who are in condemnation.

The truth founded rest for Christan is in the FATHER's place of rest in Heaven later, after they have labored everyday for the Gospel to be reached out, like CHRIST did, their MASTER in the Gospel, who proclaimed HE is the 'LORD above/of the Sabbath'.

Apart from these are traditions of men and their doctrine in ignorance once again to compromise that which has been established grace and Truth to witness by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT.

When the Pharisees corrected JESUS to work on the Sabbath, and this is what HE said to us Christian;

"My FATHER is always working and I too must work."


And so Christian, the 'author and finisher of our faith' of the New Covenant, did not rest even on the day of Sabbath of men but was accused breaking the Law of Moses by flesh/carnal men, then how can we born of the HOLY SPIRIT and are spiritual rest according to the New Covenant?

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

In Hebrews, the rest in CHRIST, is the New Covenant, forgiven of the past that born again have no rest here on earth but a race everyday, to preach the Gospel and liberate the ignorance of this world who are in condemnation.

The truth founded
rest for Christan is in the FATHER's place of rest in Heaven later, after they have labored everyday for the Gospel to be reached out,

Keeping in mind that we rest now in Christ from works to save ourselves, for we are already saved.

like CHRIST did, their MASTER in the Gospel, who proclaimed HE is the 'LORD above/of the Sabbath'.

Apart from these are traditions of men and their doctrine in ignorance once again to compromise that which has been established grace and Truth to witness by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT.

When the Pharisees corrected JESUS to work on the Sabbath, and this is what HE said to us Christian;

"My FATHER is always working and I too must work."


And so Christian, the 'author and finisher of our faith' of the New Covenant, did not rest even on the day of Sabbath of men but was accused breaking the Law of Moses by flesh/carnal men, then how can we born of the HOLY SPIRIT and are spiritual rest according to the New Covenant?

 

[chubbena]

i apologize if what i said was unclear...

i'm NOT saying the OT writings are obsolete.

i AM saying there's a difference between the OT writings and the Mosaic Covenant.

right? i mean, the OT encompasses more than just the Mosaic Covenant, right?

guys...we better hope we're not under the Old Covenant...right?

May I direct you to the other can of worms
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97847-nothing-new-about-new-covenant.html

Seriously,
Are the ten commandments obsolete?
Is the law abolished?

 

[fredjames]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Keeping in mind that we rest now in Christ from works to save ourselves, for we are already saved.

"if you save your life, you will lose it and if you lay down your life, you will save it."

 

[chubbena]

I am sorry to take away some attention of this post. But, to add a little more understanding to what you just said:

Now do we see why we are taught to die to the flesh and become alive to our spirit? Because now, the method to walking pleasingly before God is through our spirit and not flesh. God's will is eternally the same and He has given us the method to walk as sons, just as His Son did.

Please give Just-me's post a pondering.

You meant through His Spirit and not OUR flesh, right?

 

[RedTent]

After every scripture is analyzed and each word gone over, it still comes to the basic question of what Paul means. The question is the same they asked him in the book of Acts: did Paul want all the Torah discontinued through Christ?

If Paul didn’t, then he wanted us to obey all in spirit and truth being led to the Torah by the Holy Spirit. He allowed the rituals if they were done in the proper spirit, and always obedience was not to be for salvation, but for love, but the Torah was the same and for obedience.

If Paul meant to get rid of the Torah, then we have a new God in Christ, we are a new people completely. One of our tasks as new in Christ is sorting out scripture from scripture if it was given before Christ came as a man. The Christ spoken of in the Old Testament is very different from the one in the New Testament. God has also changed, if this way of reading Paul is correct. All directions of scripture on how to express love must be destroyed, Christ said to love and man is on his own about how man chooses to do that, it is only whatever his mind accepts from the Holy Spirit, each man to his own.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Keeping in mind that we rest now in Christ from works to save ourselves,
for we are already saved.

"if you save your life, you will lose it and if you lay down your life, you will save it."

Are you speaking of resting from works to save ourselves?

 

[achduke]

Did the miracles convince them?

It appears that they did not know what was going on or that it was linked with Jesus becoming the temple.

The Jerusalem Talmud states:

''Said Rabban Yohanan Ben Zakkai to the Temple, 'O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said, 'Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars' '' (Zechariah 11:1)' (Sota 6:3).
​

 

[achduke]

The Jerusalem Talmud states:

''Said Rabban Yohanan Ben Zakkai to the Temple, 'O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said, 'Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars' '' (Zechariah 11:1)' (Sota 6:3).
​

BTW, The above text is from the website links.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

If you are saying this applies to the Sinaitic covenant,
then you have to know the meaning of bilateral covenant to correctly apply to it
Is 14:26-27 on God's sovereignty.

What in heavens name are you talking about, "know the meaning of bilateral covenant"?

 

[Fishbait]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

What in heavens name are you talking about, "know the meaning of bilateral covenant"?

It could be a form of psychobabble. Sort of like when Nancy Pelosi told us, "We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it".

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

What in heavens name are you talking about, "know the meaning of bilateral covenant"?

What is a bilateral covenant, who is the author of its terms?

Do you know?

 

[Elin]

May I direct you to the other can of worms
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97847-nothing-new-about-new-covenant.html

Seriously,
Are the ten commandments obsolete?
Is the law abolished?

According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

 

[chubbena]

According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

I already knew your position - a misinterpretation of the letter to the Hebrews and is against what the Word of God said in Matthew 5:18, what Paul said in Romans 3:31 and Romans 7:12.
Is what I want to know from Psychomom.

 

[cfultz3]

You meant through His Spirit and not OUR flesh, right?

I meant:

We are to die to our flesh as the means by which we follow God (through the Law which requires fleshly deeds).

We are to become alive to our spirit so that through the dictate of His Spirit, and not through the dictate of the written Law, we do follow God, seeing that the spirit does mind the things from the Spirit, and the flesh, the things from the flesh.

So yes, having died with Christ to our flesh, we are made alive to our spirit and by which death and resurrection we are guided by His most Holy Spirit. But first, we must die to our flesh so that we can mind the things of the Spirit by our spirit.

 

[LEPIDUS]

And you would be misunderstanding it because of ignorance of the NT,
a pervasive problem here.


2Co 12:2-10:


"I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
I know a man in Christ who fourtenn years ago was caught up to the third heaven.
. . .And I know that this man. . .was caught up to paradise.
He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
. . .To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations. . .


(Paul is not talking about revelation received by anyone other than himself.)

Yes he received the revelation by The Holy Spirit and so did the other apostles according to the verse i previously presented.

Ephesians 3:


3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

. . .there was given me a thorn in my flesh (Gal 4:13-14?),
a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord
to take it away from me. But he said to me,
'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'


Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake,
I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.
For when I am weak, then I am strong."

Glad we have Gods grace to overcome , nothing to do with us not following his commandments.

You could use a good Bible study.
Go read and study the entire NT.

I already do, but thank you for encouraging me to do so.

Try reading Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 5:6; Ro 13:8, 9,10 for perspective. [/quote ]


You need to reread them for some perspective


Matthew 22:


37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Do you know why it says Love your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind?


IF YOU DON'T LOVE HIM HOW HE WANTS US TOO, YOU WOULD NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HIM


Do you know why it says love you neighbor as yourself ?


IF YOU DON'T LOVE THEM AS YOURSELF YOU WOULD NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH OTHERS


Do you understand what, "ON THESE TWO DEPEND THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS," MEANS?


de·pend
diˈpend/Submit
verb
1.
be controlled or determined by.
"differences in earnings depended on a wide variety of factors"
synonyms: be contingent on, be conditional on, be dependent on, hinge on, hang on, rest on, rely on; be decided by
"her career depends on a good reference"
2.
rely on.
"the kind of person you could depend on"

The commandments having to do with God


I am the LORD thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day

The commandments having to do with others

Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet



1 Corinthians 9:

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. 23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.


These verses just indicate how Christ made himself presentable to each kinds of person, to save some and for the sake of the gospel.


The Jews -He came as a Jew


under the law- He came as one under the law to show them how the law was meant to be followed


outside the law- He came as one outside the law and it even says not outside the law of God but under the law of Christ.

To brings us together for the sake of the gospel, truth.


Romans 13:


8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Yea I already addressed this on the top


Following the commandments rely on us loving God and our neighbors, because if we don't, we would not keep them how he intended us to.

Galations 5:


6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.


I added the following verses for some perspective for you.

7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is.


WHO HINDERED YOU FROM OBEYING THE TRUTH, THIS PERSUASION IS NOT FROM HIM WHO CALLS YOU.

Go learn of the many mysteries Paul presents in the NT.

Thank you once again for the encouragement

Go learn what he means by "Gentile" here.

It explains what he meant by "Gentile"

Ephesians 4:


17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!—

Why am I not surprised?
If you knew more of the NT. . .

I should have known better, you clearly do not want to understand, and if you knew more about the OLD TESTAMENT YOU WOULD NOT BE MAKING VOID ASSERTIONS.


THE OLD AND THE NEW COVENANT GO HAND IN HAND