John 8:41
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One major reason that supports this is the context. Jesus defends Himself against the Pharisees wrong claim by saying that before Abraham was born, He declared to them that He was the, " I AM ." Meaning Christ existed long before Abraham was born because He is God; Which refutes the Pharisees false claim.
Not sure how you are not getting what he is saying. Here is a written down version of the video:
New Insights: A Glimpse into Psalm 69 - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House
Creation.com (Who are supporters of the KJV) makes a connection between John 8:41 and how the Pharisees thought Christ was not born of a virgin but he was born of fornication.
The virginal conception of Christ - creation.com
Here is what another Commentator says on John 8:41 using the KJV:
http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/John/Jn08.htm
I also happen to believe the KJV is the divinely inspired preserved Word of God for our day, too.
G
They ' retorted, 'Abraham is our father.' 'If you were Abraham's children', Jesus replied, 'you would do as Abraham did. [SUP]40[/SUP] As it is, you are bent on killing me, a man who told you the truth, as I heard it from God. ' [SUP]41 [/SUP]That is not how Abraham acted. You are doing your own father's work.' They said, 'We are not base-born; God is our father, and God alone.'[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said, 'If God were your father, you would love me, for God is the source of my being, and from him I come. I have not come of my own accord; he sent me. [SUP]43[/SUP] Why do you not understand my language? It is because my revelation is beyond your grasp.
What I read into this is that they are accusing Yeshua of having an earthly father and not the heavenly Father.
What I read into this is that they are accusing Yeshua of having an earthly father and not the heavenly Father.
You have to keep reading. That is not what I am saying. I believe Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. Some folks here do not believe that the Pharisees were not claiming to say to Jesus that he was born of fornication. He wasn't born of fornication of course. It was a lie. They wanted to slander Jesus.
We/ye say no. They are simply saying as the passages plainly state that they are the chosen. Nothing more, nothing less.
In the first place, they didn't EVEN consider Him (Jesus) as the true son of God as far as they knew Joseph was his father,....read the follow up of the birth of Christ. They didn't even know who He was.
In the first place, they didn't EVEN consider Him (Jesus) as the true son of God as far as they knew Joseph was his father,....read the follow up of the birth of Christ. They didn't even know who He was.
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it may have been a derogatory allusion to what was surely a rumor about Jesus' birth, but in the immediate context, in verse 33-37, they claim to be Abraham's offspring, and Jesus acknowledges that they are descended from him but tells them they would do as Abraham did if Abraham is their father.
i think the implication to the Jews would immediately be the contrast of Abraham's children through Isaac, whose birth was dignified through marriage, and through Ismael, whose birth was 'immoral' through Hagar.
remember Jesus acknowledges they are descended from Abraham, but then questions their progenity. they respond by saying they're not bastards. (this would refer to Ismael's line)
it could very well be a double entendré, but i think the primary connotation is that they are the product of the unfavored bloodline.
i believe Jesus meant this spiritually, not that they were literally Arabs & not genetic Jews.
J
I'm with those who believe John 8:41 a statement of those Jews that they are true children of God, as this is the clear context of the discussion, the question their Father God, or some other father, like Satan, they were actually behaving as, the Lord Jesus questioning who the father is of those who claim God, yet don't recognize God standing in front of them.
This aside, why are you so very much obsessing over something you can never prove? I can admit it could possibly be true the statement about fornication could have had a snide remark component about Christ's birth, this not impossible, but something nobody could ever prove. So, isn't anything beyond stating your take on that scripture, trying to, as if, insist others enjoin your view a bit like beating a dead horse? If you've stated a case that can't actually be proven, where the differing view is just as valid, doesn't it come down to simply useless disputing after awhile?
Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings.
This aside, why are you so very much obsessing over something you can never prove? I can admit it could possibly be true the statement about fornication could have had a snide remark component about Christ's birth, this not impossible, but something nobody could ever prove. So, isn't anything beyond stating your take on that scripture, trying to, as if, insist others enjoin your view a bit like beating a dead horse? If you've stated a case that can't actually be proven, where the differing view is just as valid, doesn't it come down to simply useless disputing after awhile?
Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings.
J
So this necessarily must mean you know the correct understanding, others not, including countless Bible scholars who come to a different conclusion than you. Absent agreeing with you, we who disagree, as you outright state, must remain in misunderstanding of other verses, unable to rise over the hurdle you and Chuck Missler have set in place requiring we agree with you to emerge from darkness as to other verses, I suppose read you repeat your private view ad nauseam until it sinks in? Okay. I get it, will keep this in mind.
It always amazes me that a truth can become something that isn't true when it is carried too far! It is true that we must always strive to understand the layers and layers of meaning in all scripture as we grow in the Lord, but it is always true that we must be humble before the Lord, listening ONLY to Him and carefully not add our own reasoning and ideas to what it says. When we add, or we listen to one scripture without thinking of how it fits with every other scripture, or we say a scripture is not for us so we take away, we are not listening properly.
For if they wanted to say they were the true children of God, then they would just say they are the true children of God. Why mention how they are not born of fornication? This is why I believe the Pharisees were in fact accusing Jesus of being illegitimate. Then Jesus defends Himself and says before Abraham was born, " I AM ."
To me the plain reading of this text is as clear as the phrase:
"The dog jumped over the fence."
But if you don't want to believe the dog jumped over the fence, well, then that is your lack of belief in that statement.
To me the plain reading of this text is as clear as the phrase:
"The dog jumped over the fence."
But if you don't want to believe the dog jumped over the fence, well, then that is your lack of belief in that statement.
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It would seem only natural that they are responding to Jesus' words, "You do the deeds of your father" --that they were not born of Abraham. "We are not born of fornication.
This is once again a beautiful progression, they lost the argument about Abraham, so they progress to God the Father, but they lose that argument too.
This is once again a beautiful progression, they lost the argument about Abraham, so they progress to God the Father, but they lose that argument too.
King James Bible Commentary
(By Dr. Ed Hindson and Dr. Woodrow Kroll)
Book Available at:
King James Version Bible Commentary: Dr. Ed Hindson, Dr. Woodrow Kroll: 9781418503406: Amazon.com: Books
(By Dr. Ed Hindson and Dr. Woodrow Kroll)
Book Available at:
King James Version Bible Commentary: Dr. Ed Hindson, Dr. Woodrow Kroll: 9781418503406: Amazon.com: Books