I don't think there is any scripture or teaching to tell us that there is one God for the Jew and another God with different characteristics for the gentile. It tells us God created a race and sanctified (set apart) them and they would be a blessing to ALL mankind. Christ came through that line, when we listen to God we always have to think of the entire spiritual meaning of what is said.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C
I would use what the Word of God said to answer: Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Of course many will use this very verse to say the physical Sabbath is no more in Christ.
Galatians 3:17-19 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
Fact is, Abraham obeyed His commandments cf Genesis 26:5
Fact is, God added nothing more to His commandments cf Deuteronomy 5:22.
If one does the math, he would know it was the disciplinary law that was added 430 years later. Being under the law is under the disciplinary action of the law.
Of course many would say to obey His Word is bringing oneself under the law.
To each his own.
Of course many will use this very verse to say the physical Sabbath is no more in Christ.
Galatians 3:17-19 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
Fact is, Abraham obeyed His commandments cf Genesis 26:5
Fact is, God added nothing more to His commandments cf Deuteronomy 5:22.
If one does the math, he would know it was the disciplinary law that was added 430 years later. Being under the law is under the disciplinary action of the law.
Of course many would say to obey His Word is bringing oneself under the law.
To each his own.
Of course there isn't a different God for each. The bible says in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." The covenant of Abraham that made the Jews special now applies to all Christians, regardless of nationality or ethnicity. There is nothing special about a person born in Jerusalem that a gentile doesn't have today. "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." (Galatians 3:29)
The Abrahamic Covenant included land. Do you think the land promises apply to the Church? Proof passages please.
Also, as christians do you believe all distinctions are torn down to the point there is no difference between a Jew and Greek? No difference between male and female? Men can now have babies and women be pastors? Or is that saying in matters of salvation...there is neither Jew nor Greek, male/female, slave/free?
Also, as christians do you believe all distinctions are torn down to the point there is no difference between a Jew and Greek? No difference between male and female? Men can now have babies and women be pastors? Or is that saying in matters of salvation...there is neither Jew nor Greek, male/female, slave/free?
S
You're not a SDA but you attend an Armstrongite group don't you? They are worse than the Seventh Day Adventists. Armstrongites deny the Trinity and have issues with many other points of Christian doctrine.
Herbert Armstrong learned his theology from a former SDA who taught it to his wife Loma. He added various elements of other aberrant theology, like his "man will become God" view that he got from the Mormons. While claiming to have derived these teachings directly from the Bible, he was notorious for plagiarizing other groups. Too bad he didn't plagiarize good doctrine.
Herbert Armstrong learned his theology from a former SDA who taught it to his wife Loma. He added various elements of other aberrant theology, like his "man will become God" view that he got from the Mormons. While claiming to have derived these teachings directly from the Bible, he was notorious for plagiarizing other groups. Too bad he didn't plagiarize good doctrine.
C
Consider: Has God's Will, what He desires from us, changed or has just the method (from physically to spiritually)? Has not God always wanted us to walk pleasingly before Him and that being done by love?
Consider too: if love fulfills the Law, then it is the Law which we are fulfilling when we Love. So, either way, we are to keep the Law, seeing that Christ's Law of Love is what we use to fulfill the Law which God has spoken, that is, God's Law which was always about Love for Him and others. That same Law which our very same LORD commanded us to do when He was amongst us.
So then, can we say that we all are law-keepers, seeing that the one walking Before Him in love is keeping the Law? And that the one who is not loving is not keeping the Law and does not know God, because it says that the one who does not love, does not know God, because God is Love?
Consider too: if love fulfills the Law, then it is the Law which we are fulfilling when we Love. So, either way, we are to keep the Law, seeing that Christ's Law of Love is what we use to fulfill the Law which God has spoken, that is, God's Law which was always about Love for Him and others. That same Law which our very same LORD commanded us to do when He was amongst us.
So then, can we say that we all are law-keepers, seeing that the one walking Before Him in love is keeping the Law? And that the one who is not loving is not keeping the Law and does not know God, because it says that the one who does not love, does not know God, because God is Love?
I think those in this thread that personally attack the faith of Christians based on their belief they are right to do so because of some conceived notion they are superior to their target, should consider the impression they're making as they do so and hold to their own faith.
How many Christian men in this thread who condemn those they label, 'law keepers', are circumcised?
Jesus was circumcised.
How many Christian men in this thread who condemn those they label, 'law keepers', are circumcised?
Jesus was circumcised.
S
An Armstrongite is one who follows the teachings of Herbert Armstrong. I used to be one of them. He apparently belongs to one of the splinter groups that descended from them. He made some unsolicited remarks about my testimony concerning leaving them after coming to a better understanding of God's grace.
As I've mentioned to you I have no problem with Sabbath keepers if they don't hold that non Sabbath keepers are still in their sins and unbelievers.
Here's some of the heretical teachings associated with Armstrong's followers:
As I've mentioned to you I have no problem with Sabbath keepers if they don't hold that non Sabbath keepers are still in their sins and unbelievers.
Here's some of the heretical teachings associated with Armstrong's followers:
- The Trinity was a pagan doctrine, formulated by men, and did not describe the true nature of God. In Armstrong's theology, God the Father and Jesus Christ were two separate beings, composed of a "substance" called spirit. The Holy Spirit was the impersonal force that was used to accomplish God's will. God the Father and Jesus Christ were in the image of a man.. possessing the anatomy of a human being only composed of a "substance" called spirit. The nature of God was viewed as a family, that human beings could be born into at the resurrection...literally being added to the Godhead just like a new child adds to a human family. This view is very much in line with the Mormon view of God's nature.
- The gospel message, in Armstrong's theology, was primarily about the soon-coming rule of Jesus Christ at his second coming. The central focus was not on what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross. Announcing this message of the rule of Jesus Christ before the end of man's rule was the goal of Armstrong's ministry. He believed this message needed to be proclaimed before Christ would return. He viewed himself as the "Elijah to come" in the Old Testament...in a role very similar to John the Baptist, who came as a forerunner of Jesus Christ at his first coming.
- Worldwide Church of God was viewed as the one and only true church of God. Other Christian churches were in error. All other Christians, while sincere, were not really true Christians and were not saved. Other Christians were not saved primarily because they don’t keep the Saturday Sabbath, and thus were still in their sin. They could not be repentant, because they were still breaking the Ten Commandments by not observing the Saturday Sabbath. In effect, churches such as the Seventh Day Adventists were also excluded because they didn't believe other elements of Armstrong's teachings such as keeping the annual festivals of Leviticus 23. The church's teachings as a whole were called "The Truth" and members quite often spoke of how they came to a knowledge of "The Truth".. meaning Herbert Armstrong's teachings.
- Herbert Armstrong, the leader, was viewed as being the sole representative of God on Earth. He was called God's apostle. He was the ultimate authority on what the Bible said, and published many books which were meant to interpret the Scripture for Christians. He claimed to have restored true Christianity to the world, which had not been taught since the early apostolic days. While Armstrong taught to believe only your Bible, in reality he meant the Bible as interpreted by Herbert Armstrong and Worldwide Church of God. His hermeneutics included connecting unrelated verses in order to form doctrines, as he viewed the Bible as a "coded book" that required such a method to come up with the "right doctrine". Incidentally, his wife claimed to have a vision from an angel which inaugurated Herbert and herself into the ministry..it's funny how many aberrant beliefs have some element of angelic appearances whether in vision or in person, inaugurating them to teach the "true gospel" which hasn't been taught since the apostles..including the Mormons and JWs (Gal 1:8).
- Christians were required to observe elements of the Old Covenant, including the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday), observance of the Holy Days of Leviticus 23, a tithing system that allocated about 23% of their gross income before tax to the church or festival observance, and observance of the clean/unclean meat laws. It was a very works oriented view of salvation composed of a patchwork quilt of Old Covenant and New Covenant concepts.
- Catholic and Protestant churches were formed through an amalgam of Christianity and pagan customs as the result of an apostasy which occurred after the closing of the New Testament canon. Customs such as Sunday observance, Christmas, and Easter begun to be observed by the new apostate church. There was a very strong anti-Catholic element, particularly because the Catholic church claimed to change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Catholicism was viewed as the whore of Babylon in Revelation, with Protestant churches being viewed as the daughters of the whore. There was no understanding of the Protestant Reformation and the concept of imputed righteousness that was the focus of the Reformer's message.
- Christians were literally to become members of the God family upon the resurrection. Their human life and their overcoming of sins is for the purpose of qualifying them for salvation, and becoming a god being, to rule over their own planet (this was inferred if not explicitly taught), very similar to Mormon theology. The Christian was viewed as being given only conditional eternal life, and their salvation process was described as being analogous to the impregnation of the human egg cell by the sperm...and this spiritual pregnancy could be terminated by God at any point prior to the spiritual birth, which occurs at the resurrection. They denied that this spiritual birth occurs at conversion.
- A very complex eschatology (teaching about end time events) which taught that the 12 tribes of Israel are the ancestors of those who comprise the Western European peoples, and that events in prophecy can only be understood in this context.
- A virtual universal salvation...the view was that most of mankind is not being called to salvation now...the Church is being called to salvation and being judged by God. The rest are spiritually blinded and won't be given an opportunity for salvation until a future resurrection after the Millennium, when they will be given an opportunity for salvation without Satan's influence.
- A system of 3 resurrections. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous at Christ's return. The second resurrection is the resurrection of the unsaved unevangelized, which is the group in point 6. The third resurrection is the resurrection to eternal punishment, to be thrown into the lake of fire.
- Soul sleep; that those who die are in a state of sleep until they are resurrected. There is no consciousness between death and the resurrection for anyone.
- Eternal punishment involved annihilationism,and not eternal suffering in hell...being thrown in the lake of fire.
- Taught a healing doctrine that basically discouraged seeking medical treatment and condemned it as a lack of faith. Healing was viewed as part and parcel of Christ's sacrifice. The sad thing about this is that when it was taught, my understanding is that church leadership sought medical care but many of the membership did not, because they believed it was God's will. A friend of my family was attending Ambassador College, the church's university, at the time and was disillusioned by the hypocrisy of the church's leadership seeking medical treatment while the membership was encouraged not to.
- Viewed the rich as being spiritually superior to the poor...most of the deacons and elders were individuals who were fairly successful in their vocational careers. Undoubtedly this condescending view of the poor was related to Armstrong's mentality regarding material wealth.
- Denied the bodily resurrection, instead teaching a spiritual resurrection much like the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Jesus Christ does not have a physical resurrection body, in their theology.
- Practiced strict rules regarding church discipline. For example, if a member questioned a point
- Taught that the role of the membership was to "pray and pay". Evangelizing to unbelievers was the primary job of Herbert Armstrong, and was done through his television program, church literature, and visits to world leaders, at great expense to the church's membership. The normal church member didn't evangelize to others, and was not viewed as qualified to do such.
- Church services were by ministerial invitation only....and usually those who were invited to church services were indoctrinated by church literature prior to attending the church services. Those individuals were called PMs (potential members). The local pastor met with these individuals privately before allowing them to come to services. They were questioned to assess their knowledge of church teachings, and then allowed to attend if the minister thought God was working with them. By then, it was likely that these individuals were keeping the Saturday Sabbath already, at home, or they would not have been allowed to attend.
- Baptism was not viewed as a first act of obedience, and identifying one's self publicly with Christ; it was viewed as a required ceremony which imparted the Holy Spirit to the believer. Salvation did not begin until the point of baptism. Baptisms were conducted quite often as a private event with few other individuals observing. For instance, I was baptized in someone's basement as part of a group with only a few family members present. I can remember wondering what would happen between the time I was approved for baptism and the actual event; if I died in an accident or something would I still be saved?
- De-emphasized the grace of God. If you had asked a church member for a definition of grace, I doubt you could have obtained one from them. Grace was discussed basically only in the context of grace versus works or keeping the commandments...as if these two concepts are opposites. The caricature of traditional Christianity was that they don't believe obedience is part of the Christian life, and that other Christians are using the concept of grace to cover up sin and disobedience. There was no understanding of the concept of imputed righteousness, and no understanding that obedience is a fruit of true faith, rather than being the cause of it. At the very least, it was "grace plus" and never faith alone, grace alone, in Jesus Christ alone, unto good works for the glory of God.
H
"17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19