It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[JesusIsAll]

This can be a difficult question. I believe the Bible teaches eternal security, our Lord Jesus stating nobody can be plucked from His hand, and His work will be completed. But there is also the fact of free will, our God not a God of compulsion. He would not force us to stay in the faith, as He does not force us into the faith. We must consider, especially these verses,

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Here you have those with the Holy Spirit who have fallen away. These had to be one time believers. Consider,

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Paul is saying to stay the course of obedience with fear and trembling, which has always struck me that, if once saved, always saved, it's really more a matter of, "What the heck, your salvation is in the bag, no worries over anything, but do try to be a good boys and girls."

Also, I don't believe it's sufficient to label all the Laodicean church fake Christians, as in complete frauds, say, well, they just never really believed, could never have been baptized by the Holy Spirit, to suit a doctrinal prejudice that must plug a button hole of absolute, eternal security, no matter what.

I came to the conclusion, with the help of some theologians, that there is eternal security, but we must remain in the faith, no guarantee that we are going to finish the race, turn to some other religion, turn to hedonism, whatever, renounce the faith, as some have done. And I know I can't say for a fact they never really believed, and you can't either.

I believe apostasy is possible of people with a nature based in free will, which can pick and choose, and Hebrews 6:4-6 clear and unambiguous, no unbeliever partaking of enlightenment and the Holy Spirit.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Please add to this that one renouncing the faith is not somebody plucking anything from the Lord's hand, as in some man or devil able to destroy a Christian, the Lord's work. We would be in His hand, and somebody or something else trying to pluck us, against our will. But I think we must, ourselves, remain in His hand by faith.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

It is Satanic heresy. But think about what OSAS threatens to those who are committed to embracing their fallen nature.

Did you see, Passion of the Christ?
In the end, and it is an older title so this isn't really what would be called a spoiler, Jesus says from the cross; it is accomplished.

And there is Satan, who had been walking behind the Jews who were taunting Christ prior to his execution, and smiling as he (and the Satan in that movie was played by a woman amazingly enough), foresaw Christ would be executed because of the fierce anger the people have toward Christ, now screaming in a pit and clawing at himself once Christ has accomplished his mission. Because the Satan knew he had been defeated and though that pit was bare at the moment he knew his destiny was assured now.

Think of that evil doctrine that denounces eternal salvation as that image of Satan thinking it, and Satan's disciples that promote it, believing for their efforts that Satan has a second chance to condemn the world by leading the faithful back into damnation.

Satan has up-righted himself, climbed out of that barren pit, and now roams the earth like a hungry lion seeking not only souls to devour, but those faithful who believe they can fall into his maw after being redeemed in the blood of Christ. It's like Satan now imagines himself having bloody lambs gravy in his mouth for all the ex-Christians he believes he will convince are his. Even after redemption, baptism, salvation.
Proving those faithful accept Jesus lied about eternal life, and humans are the only one's that can pluck the redeemed from God's hand.

The thing is and what should console you if you're worried about that type of deceiver is, they were never saved in the first place.
Anyone who teaches Jesus was a liar and eternal life is not so, is not saved. They do not harbor the holy spirit inside themselves. That's why they are empty while they say they're christian and that as such salvation is not eternal. Because while they're calling Christ a liar, the only way they can first believe that is because they were liars when they felt called to repentance.

It's like someone who is drowning in a sea and suddenly this hand reaches down and pulls them to dry land. They're saved. And for as long as they live on that island they shall never be at risk of drowning again.
While there's this other type that is in the sea, they swim to a shoreline, crawl out of the surf, lay down and then decide they're too dry. And they go and dive back into the sea again. Because not only are they bad swimmers but that shore they thought they crawled up onto was just an illusion. And in truth they're already dead.

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[newbirth]

It is Satanic heresy. But think about what OSAS threatens to those who are committed to embracing their fallen nature.

Did you see, Passion of the Christ?
In the end, and it is an older title so this isn't really what would be called a spoiler, Jesus says from the cross; it is accomplished.

And there is Satan, who had been walking behind the Jews who were taunting Christ prior to his execution, and smiling as he (and the Satan in that movie was played by a woman amazingly enough), foresaw Christ would be executed because of the fierce anger the people have toward Christ, now screaming in a pit and clawing at himself once Christ has accomplished his mission. Because the Satan knew he had been defeated and though that pit was bare at the moment he knew his destiny was assured now.

Think of that evil doctrine that denounces eternal salvation as that image of Satan thinking it, and Satan's disciples that promote it, believing for their efforts that Satan has a second chance to condemn the world by leading the faithful back into damnation.

Satan has up-righted himself, climbed out of that barren pit, and now roams the earth like a hungry lion seeking not only souls to devour, but those faithful who believe they can fall into his maw after being redeemed in the blood of Christ. It's like Satan now imagines himself having bloody lambs gravy in his mouth for all the ex-Christians he believes he will convince are his. Even after redemption, baptism, salvation.
Proving those faithful accept Jesus lied about eternal life, and humans are the only one's that can pluck the redeemed from God's hand.

The thing is and what should console you if you're worried about that type of deceiver is, they were never saved in the first place.
Anyone who teaches Jesus was a liar and eternal life is not so, is not saved. They do not harbor the holy spirit inside themselves. That's why they are empty while they say they're christian and that as such salvation is not eternal. Because while they're calling Christ a liar, the only way they can first believe that is because they were liars when they felt called to repentance.

It's like someone who is drowning in a sea and suddenly this hand reaches down and pulls them to dry land. They're saved. And for as long as they live on that island they shall never be at risk of drowning again.
While there's this other type that is in the sea, they swim to a shoreline, crawl out of the surf, lay down and then decide they're too dry. And they go and dive back into the sea again. Because not only are they bad swimmers but that shore they thought they crawled up onto was just an illusion. And in truth they're already dead.

Did you really quote the Passion of Christ?...and giving your own evaluation of scripture...someone who thinks Paul is the anitchrist ....

Do you really believe Mel Gibson and Benedict Fitzgerald over Paul?
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[BlackPlatypus]

Did you really quote the Passion of Christ?...and giving your own evaluation of scripture...someone who thinks Paul is the anitchrist ....

Do you really believe Mel Gibson and Benedict Fitzgerald over Paul?
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Did you really just show the forum that you're a liar? I never said Paul was the Antichrist.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Oh! As to the Satanic heresy bit, I say burn 'em all who don't think like me!

Seriously, it could just as easily be said, by those of you who ramble on and on your own ideas and philosophies as arguments, that absolute eternal security could be the "Satanic heresy," since this can lead a believer to conclude there's nothing that can change their salvation, so ignore the Holy Spirit, eat, drink and be merry, what's the point of obedience, I need nothing, I'm gonna' be a Laodicean, as Paul put it, the insane notion to sin more, that grace may abound more.

I think we should all be careful who we're calling Satanic on legitimate matters of doctrinal differences, who I most question is anybody who calls others Satanic, if they don't subscribe to their diatribes. The worst "Christian" people I've seen on the web are those who point the Satan finger at others. I've seen this of the rapture. I've seen this of anybody who worships on Sunday. I've seen this of anybody who celebrates Christmas. I've seen this of eating meat. I've seen a lot of slanderous fools, in other words, not worth conversing with, and they never have sound theology to back anything they claim, just a word in scripture or one verse they pull out of context, sometimes whole passages that don't even contribute to their argument, while ignoring the totality of scripture on the subject. This is Bible ignorance. I must admit, they irritate me, are such bores, this why I avoid some conversations which aren't worth it, and the Bible says so,

Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

To such, all I have to say is this, other than bye bye, have a nice life,

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Oh! As to the Satanic heresy bit, I say burn 'em all who don't think like me!

Seriously, it could just as easily be said, by those of you who ramble on and on your own ideas and philosophies ...

Let a Christian stop you right there.
What is being discussed in these forums is Bible scripture. Anyone who argues eternal salvation is revocable is calling Jesus a liar and his sacrifice on the cross a fraud.
[h=1]John 10:28I give them eternal life. They will never die, and no one will snatch them from my hand. [/h]
Heretics, who argue Jesus was a liar and salvation is revocable, read that verse and promote that that verse says; I give them eternal life and no one but themselves will snatch them from my hand.

A saved person is redeemed by the blood of the lamb. One can never be un-redeemed unless the lamb was an illusion.

 

[JesusIsAll]

John 10:28 I give them eternal life. They will never die, and no one will snatch them from my hand.

A person who renounces their faith hasn't been snatched, posted this above. Again,

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I wasn't going to reply, and won't again, as you have a very arrogant mouth on you, the "heretics" crap. So don't try to twist the above clear verses into a pretzel, at least for me, to suit your inquisition, okay? Because I don't buy people like you.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Thank you for promising not to speak to me anymore. Your post makes absolutely no sense here. Please take your personal attacks to God in prayer. Because he's clearly not allowing you to make any sense.

The way you speak to a Christian, especially with the screen name you chose, reminded me of this church humor:

An honest man was being tailgated by a stressed out woman on a busy boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow just in front of him. He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection.
The tailgating woman hit the roof, and the horn, screaming in frustration as she missed her chance to get through the intersection.
As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up into the face of a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up. He took her to the police station where she was searched, finger-printed, and photographed, and then placed in a holding cell.
After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the door. She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal effects.
He said, "I'm very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you, and cussing a blue streak at him. I noticed the 'Choose Life' license plate holder, the 'What Would Jesus Do?' bumper sticker, the 'Follow Me to Sunday School' bumper sticker, and the chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk. Naturally, I assumed you had stolen the car!"

A person who renounces their faith hasn't been snatched, posted this above. Again,

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I wasn't going to reply, and won't again, as you have a very arrogant mouth on you, the "heretics" crap. So don't try to twist the above clear verses into a pretzel, at least for me, to suit your inquisition, okay? Because I don't buy people like you.

 

[Atwood]

Again, a Denier Quotes Heb 6:4-6 & fails to go thru 6:9 - How Long?

How long do those who deny that Christ is Savior, & down-grade Him to mere chance-giver, keep on quoting Hebrew 6, stopping before 6:9 where the passage is explained? Here we are again, (groan):

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. . . .
to twist the above clear verses into a pretzel

Lets us untwist the pretzel of misunderstanding by finishing the quotation:

7 For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

Heb 6:9 clearly explains the preceding context as matters which do not reach the level of salvation. The apostates were never saved.

Now remember this principle: When you read a passage that seems to speak as if people lost salvation (though such language is never used in the Bible), just read on a little further.

Now here's some mustard for that pretzel:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Re: Again, a Denier Quotes Heb 6:4-6 & fails to go thru 6:9 - How Long?

How long do those who deny that Christ is Savior, & down-grade Him to mere chance-giver.....

Bravo!
Do you ever wonder why anyone would want to argue that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have not so everlasting life?

That Jesus died so he could repeal what he died to give to the world? Or that people could be granted the grace of God's salvation and then mere mortals could say; no thanks God, I prefer Hell.

 

[Atwood]

Seriously, it could just as easily be said, by those of you who ramble on and on your own ideas and philosophies as arguments,

This is not my own ideas or philosophies, but the word of God!


Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

true doctrine

[

 

[newbirth]

Seriously, it could just as easily be said, by those of you who ramble on and on your own ideas and philosophies as arguments,

This is not my own ideas or philosophies, but the word of God!
true doctrine

[

This is true scripture...vs 7 don't let Atwood lead you astray


1 John 3 American Standard Version (ASV)
3 Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this cause the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every one that hath this hope set on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message which ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]not as Cain was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Marvel not, brethren, if the world hateth you.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not abideth in death.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Hereby know we love, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]But whoso hath the world's goods, and beholdeth his brother in need, and shutteth up his compassion from him, how doth the love of God abide in him?

[SUP]18 [/SUP]My Little children, let us not love in word, neither with the tongue; but in deed and truth.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Hereby shall we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our heart before him:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]because if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, we have boldness toward God;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]and whatsoever we ask we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as he gave us commandment.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us.

 

[Kerry]

Why does Satan only fight those who have faith?

 

[Atwood]

Lest One Stray Off Topic, Focus on the Savior &amp; Eternal Security

< 1 Pet

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…

1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and betheir God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Now what is it you don't understand?
The i?
the rr?
the e?
the v?
the o?
the c?
the -able?

IRR
RE
VOC
ABLE.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Re: Lest One Stray Off Topic, Focus on the Savior &amp; Eternal Security

Now what is it you don't understand?

Why you're using such big kiddie letters?

In the KJV, Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Okay. You seem to love that word irrevocable, no problem. The problem is that entire passage is about the Lord's covenant with Abraham, that God will not change His mind about His covenant with Israel, that they, though in unbelief, will obtain mercy. The passage is all about Israel's salvation, has absolutely nothing to do with what you attribute it to!

Maybe try reading the whole chapter, find out where your favorite word you build your entire point on actually fits in the subject matter, before inventing your own doctrine from one word?

 

[Warrior777]

Your "fall away" verse (not even quoted) does not even mention "salvation," "save," or "Savior." You are advised in considering the doctrine of salvation to make of first importance those verse which do use those terms or something like "receive eternal life."

First of all I was just answering sparkman about his contradicting remark, this did not originate with me. But if do like to have a verse here is one:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" 1 Timothy 4:1.

IF you depart from faith, first you have to have had it! Anything else you make up what you want to make it say, which it doesn't say that these were unbelievers. If those were just unsaved ones this would not even have any meaning or purpose to be here as a warning!
Also it is not always necessary to include the exact wording in a sentence in order to make a statement about a certain topic, like salvation or the mention of hell. At times the scriptures are using metaphors or different descriptions, especially in the parables that are using phrases that strongly imply the topic they speak of without ever mentioning them directly. "Falling away" is such a description. The Bible is full of these. If you don't see that how can you even begin to understand scripture.

A dog can chase a truck & then fall away from it without ever having gotten in the truck.

Really! Are we now comparing faith in God with a dog chasing a truck!!! You're asking a scripture of me for a comment, please provide a scripture for that. Is that all that OSAS contenders come up with in response to a true scriptural (and logic) statement from an actual biblical standpoint? That doesn't even relate in the slightest way.
First of all it would be "falling behind" in his attempt to reach it. If he would fall away from the truck he would have been on it before.

That is just you saying things. No scripture whatever. 1 john 2 tells us that whoever is "of us" remains & that those who apostatize where never "of us."

So actually if you really read the whole chapter in CONTEXT (not soundbites) you would see that there is a warning to not to be like those that were not "of us" to begin with. Sure there are unbelievers that walk with them for a while to see if it be of any interest to them but then change their minds - like the first category of people in the sower parable.
That proves nothing of your point you are trying to make.

Rom 10:10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

They obviously believed wholeheartedly that Jesus was their Lord that they worshiped and also confessed this with their mouth as it can be seen, they were even teachers of what they believed.

You obviously add things not in the verse you quote. What is obvious is that heart-belief leads to righteousness, and that you couldn't be made righteous without being saved.

IF standing in front of JESUS, they are confessing that He is their LORD and that they worshiped him, then that is pretty much obvious, that they really believed this. So otherwise you would have to prove to me that they were trying to lie and deceive Jesus who is about to judge them in their presence with all of His holiness right there in front of them!

Confess = homologeo = hom(o) + log + eo = same + saying + verb ending = say the same, agree with. It is necessary to agree with God that Jesus is YHWH (Lord, as in context, Rom 10:13). As always, there is but one human condition of salvation, namely belief/trust in Christ, Him being adequately defined including the definition as YHWH.

There is no mention of confessing to men, let alone teaching here.

But here: “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess beforeMy Father who is in heaven. (Matt 10:32)

I mentioned this because of the context of my answer to sparkman's answer to a quote of Mat 7:22 and referred it to Mat 10 (again context - not soundbites!). Anyways what is your point? They were saved to eternal live and righteous at one time , since they believed AND confessed once but lost it. Out of that context of that scripture you cannot prove anything different without making something up and/or twisting scripture.

Ezek 18:24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All therighteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.





This makes good sense as physical death. It does not say "lose salvation" nor "stop being a child of God."

That's another area where you OSAS people twist and change scripture, many times the Bible speaks of death in a spiritual sense and eventually leading to the 2nd death. Otherwise you would have told God that He is lying taking about Adam and Eve dying if they eat of the tree. Well they didn't die there physically did they. So in this scripture in Ezekiel it also talks about dying eternally, otherwise tell me where the wicked went when they died!

Here Jesus talks about keeping His commandments, now if He was just talking about physical death, then those who are saved would live eternally without ever physically dying, which of course if ridiculous.

"If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." John 8:51.

Now what happens if a man does not keep His sayings, ergo he DIES and this is proof that it's not physical! Don't even counter with the argument that those that don't keep them were never saved! Do all saved people ever and at all times keep God's sayings, well you answered that already with, "we do sin", so if they at times do not keep His sayings what then? Also He didn't say "who is saved, shall never see death" so He didn't make it conditional on being saved alone (this is included and automatically assumed) but here solely the keeping His saying (all of it, not only to get saved!) is mentioned as the only condition to not be lost!

I would put Judas in the category of persons who were unsaved, indwelt by demons, yet had power which came from the Holy Spirit (Mat 10).

The topic is not "who can cast out demons," but

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

No actually it matters very well in that verse in Matt 7. You want to sweep that under the table very fast. AFTER Jesus' resurrection, before nobody really could get "saved" in that way.
The truth is they DID cast out demons and nobody can do that if they are not saved and don't have the power of the Holy Spirit, you can do that ONLY in Jesus' Name. You have to have covenant authority to use the name of Jesus successfully. Unbelievers DO NOT! See the sons of Sceva!

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.




That passage is irrelevant to the issue at hand, that of the security of the believer in Christ. We have security in a guarantee of eternal life (they shall never perish), not a security of never sinning in this life. Gal 5 speaks of the way a believer avoids carnality -- nothing about salvation either as a new birth or for eternal life.

Only irrelevant to OSAS people that is exactly your problem, just disregard scripture that don't quite fit in your viewpoint. That's why I quoted 1 John 2 right afterwards as a context, using scripture with scripture but whoever wants to twist them likes just to pick (soundbites) and choose.

so you called it:

Utter rubbish. Christians certainly do sin. "If we confess our sins . . . ." You don't stop having a certain Father because you sinned.

so you will call this rubbish also?:

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:7-9)

Sure if you do sin there is forgiveness IF you repent, but that was not the issue in that point. But if there is no repentance there is no forgiveness and if no forgiveness one will die in their sins after being saved and so unforgiven sin takes them to hell otherwise forgiveness would not even be needed for salvation.

If you walk according to the flesh there is repentance needed to be restored back to God. Sin is a separation from God, if you die in your sins without repentance you will be separated from Him and lost in hell forever and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9 )


Rubbish, 1 Cor 6:9 says no such thing. When a Christian sins (& in many things we all stumble), he does not enter a state of damnation -- no such teaching in the Bible. The Christian is not in & out of being a child of God every day as He sins.

You really think that a lot of the Word of God is rubbish I see:
Maybe you should throw away your Bible (version) if you don't find that in there.
that scripture literally shows that whoever do these sins will NOT inherit the kingdom of God, ergo, : they will go to the OTHER place.

Don't argue about the kingdom of God issue not meaning heaven but some rewards, that now is utter rubbish! and will not hold fast against scripture no matter what you want to twist to make it say!

I give them eternal life & they shall never perish. Indeed:

Well Jesus also said:

"Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy FIRST LOVE. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."Revelation 2:4, 5

First Love again is a description, meaning after "being saved" (the first love for Jesus)!
There you have your scripture of loss of salvation right in context including "fallen away" in an unrepentive state and what happens if there is NO repentance! So there you have it, forgiveness is needed for salvation continuously to stay saved!

As you can see the people here that Jesus is talking about had their first love and works (Fruit to show it) and Jesus is warning them to return to the Love AND the WORKS otherwise he will remove their light/life.


Here is another scripture that in context supports my previously quoted one about confession before men:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Rev 3:5

If your name can be blotted OUT of the Book of Life where all saved people are written into, then you must have had your name in the Book before logically, isn't that the truth? So if you are in the Book you are saved if you are scratched out something happened so that you are not saved ANYMORE! and just in case you do think that only means physically dying:

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev. 20:15

So far for eternally secured salvation!

But if after 205 pages you still do not see, then you will still find a way to twist this also again to your own and other people's destruction who read your post and think they can do whatever they want and their salvation is secure, because they once really believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth, so they were saved.
And further how can you then come and say no they were not saved, because they are sinning now, they must not have been with us from the beginning, then you make yourself out to be god! Judging a person's heart that only truly God can. How can you determine who was never saved and who is/was saved and maybe now backslidden and/or in temporary sin, but you just make the determination after what you need it for to make scripture fit to what you wan it to say.


2 Peter 3:15-17

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstablepeople twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;


With this heresy you and others teach you can lead a lot of people into damnation that take your advice and think they are save when they are not! You will have to give an account to God one day because of this and anyone that ends up in hell because of it.
Repent and refuse this false gospel of demons.

That's all what I need to say about this, because no matter what I say and how many scriptures I can quote you as proof (at least for those that can see) you will have just another twisted answer for it, and there is no more reason to debate this. Then it just becomes dissension.

 

[Warrior777]

Read what it says. Jesus said "I never knew you". Many Pentecostals and other "miracle workers" claim to prophesy, cast out demons, etcetera....whether it is genuine at all or comes from God is the question.

Jesus says here clearly that he "never knew" them. They never had a relationship with him at all.

Matt 7: [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

You can read my post to Atwood, I am not posting the same answer twice...

 

[Warrior777]

One more thing about the headline of this thread:

How is it satanic to deny eternal security?
If it turns out conditional security is wrong, then the worst it did was to admonish people to keep God's word and not be sinning because they could lose their salvation, the worst that could happen is people actually are not sinning as much and trying to keep the word of God and repent and end up leading a more godly lifestyle!

If OSAS turns out to be wrong (which it is) then that teaching leads people to believe once they are saved they can do what they want and still be saved, the worst that can happen is that people lead a sinful lifestyle and die in their sins, because they were told that nothing could get them out of heaven anymore and repentance is seen as something optional and they end up in hell.

So then which teaching sounds more satanic!?

 

[RickyZ]

The only satanic heresy I see going on is CONTINUING THIS FRUITLESS DEBATE FOREVER! While your idle hands are made busy here, there are people who couldn't care one way or another who need the love of God brought to them. Paul said don't be given to useless/endless debate. The violation of that I see here is what is truly satanic.