Nothing new about the "new" covenant?
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J
The record? Wow! It's like falling down the rabbit hole! You could also say it not speaks for itself. You see, it's such a difficult thing for a Christian to comment on the deity of Jesus Christ. I mean, since when would a Christian state what they think about their Lord Jesus?
Elin, I think you're going to bruise your head against that wall, the Lord bless your heart!
Elin, I think you're going to bruise your head against that wall, the Lord bless your heart!
J
I think what happens is that some Christians receive their Bibles from the CIA, and were instructed the first chapter of John is Top Secret, classified information. Now, I can say Jesus is God, equal with the Father, and not betray the Secrets Act, so let me help by doing that here. Of course, if you're dealing with a Jehovah's Witness, Jesus Christ is the angel Michael incarnate, and higher than a Sandals Resort bus boy, but maybe lower than an elder at the Kingdom Hall, some sort of God-lite? I know they have much conviction, actually bother to change the words in the Bible they don't like. I'd love to see a debate between Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics, as this would be a glimpse of eternity: it would never end... Telling you, they're both more circular than a gerbil of a tread wheel...
Originally Posted by Elin
[Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?]
"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).
[Answered with Scripture irrelevant to the point.]
so this did not answer youre question and is irrelevent ?
do you deny this verse from the bible on this subject ?
i am still waiting for answers to my dozen questions to you also.
The non answers and lashbacks to people speaks volumes for itself about you.
and i'm still waiting for those charges againest me you say you found.
[Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?]
"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).
[Answered with Scripture irrelevant to the point.]
so this did not answer youre question and is irrelevent ?
do you deny this verse from the bible on this subject ?
i am still waiting for answers to my dozen questions to you also.
The non answers and lashbacks to people speaks volumes for itself about you.
and i'm still waiting for those charges againest me you say you found.
John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
In the Bible "name" means the complete charter of what one represents. Like praying in the name of Jesus is praying according to His divine charter that all we ask is in total agreement with Him. With that, Philip, seeing the character of Jesus is also seeing the character of our Father in heaven i.e. His Father. That makes Jesus and His Father a unit of One. The Father and the Son are ONE. and to quote Obama "period"
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
In the Bible "name" means the complete charter of what one represents. Like praying in the name of Jesus is praying according to His divine charter that all we ask is in total agreement with Him. With that, Philip, seeing the character of Jesus is also seeing the character of our Father in heaven i.e. His Father. That makes Jesus and His Father a unit of One. The Father and the Son are ONE. and to quote Obama "period"
People who changed scripture as I feel sure Elin does has been a problem ever since the resurrection. Much of the book of Acts speaks of it. If we get to the basics, it is whether Paul was a Torah keeping Jew as Paul said he was, or if Paul was against all the Torah taught. Was Paul a liar, against God, or are we misunderstanding the teachings of Paul. I think Paul is teaching pure Torah, that he speaks only the words of the Lord. Paul wanted circumcision to be true, not only cutting flesh. He wanted "be clean in thought word and deed" to be spiritual not limited to a physical menu plan, etc. Paul wanted everyone to accept Christ as our Savior--not by denying any of God but as the Savior is.
Jews, in the days Acts told of, wanted to kill Paul because of what Elin accuses Paul of teaching. All the courts freed him of these charges and the Lord protected him so he could teach. After a few hundred years, laws were passed to make it illegal to not follow the ideas such as Elin has of what Paul teaches. We know from scripture that God's people go astray. We are to honor the Lord and honor scripture and to say that one scripture proves any other wrong is going astray from the Lord. We cannot cancel the ten commandments because they cannot be used for salvation, we are human and we cannot cancel what is of God. Because they cannot be used for salvation is not a reason to cancel something of God. As an illustration.
Just as all teachings are that are not truth in the Lord, Elin will say she doesn't teach what she teaches. These teachings all have in common that they use truth, they just add a bit here and there that isn't truth.
With God, justice will always be done. God's plan is supreme. If Erin is wrong, God will work it out. I am with all of you, I think we should do the very best we can to learn what is truth and put it out there on CC.
Jews, in the days Acts told of, wanted to kill Paul because of what Elin accuses Paul of teaching. All the courts freed him of these charges and the Lord protected him so he could teach. After a few hundred years, laws were passed to make it illegal to not follow the ideas such as Elin has of what Paul teaches. We know from scripture that God's people go astray. We are to honor the Lord and honor scripture and to say that one scripture proves any other wrong is going astray from the Lord. We cannot cancel the ten commandments because they cannot be used for salvation, we are human and we cannot cancel what is of God. Because they cannot be used for salvation is not a reason to cancel something of God. As an illustration.
Just as all teachings are that are not truth in the Lord, Elin will say she doesn't teach what she teaches. These teachings all have in common that they use truth, they just add a bit here and there that isn't truth.
With God, justice will always be done. God's plan is supreme. If Erin is wrong, God will work it out. I am with all of you, I think we should do the very best we can to learn what is truth and put it out there on CC.
I find it sad and appalling, but its expected of someone whose character was evident. Achduke, I apologize for such behavior and anyone who condones it, are like minded and quite repulsive to be honest. God bless you and thank you for your input in my thread and i'm sure others as well appreciate what you had to share on this thread and others like it. God Bless You.
Funny how things work. I've reported her for changing what I have written, and nothing was done. She then can change what others write and post her distortion, and then report what she wrote about them? Seems strange, maybe I'm not understanding it right. I know that if a person writes something that can be proven wrong by mis-interpretation, that could do it, and I'm sure she would jump at the chance if possible.
"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight." Proverbs 11:1, and Proverbs 20:23b "and a false balance is not good."
But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deuteronomy 25:15
Then, of course the above is part of the "Old Covenant" and doesn't apply to those that are justified by its rejection because "Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight." Proverbs 11:1, and Proverbs 20:23b "and a false balance is not good."
But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deuteronomy 25:15
Then, of course the above is part of the "Old Covenant" and doesn't apply to those that are justified by its rejection because "Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
I really am sort of sick and tired of people saying that those who believe that the "Old Covenant" is passed away consider that to be the "WHOLE" of the OT. There needs to be a distinction set up of what is meant when we say we are not under the law and it is old and vanishes away [which scripture does say]. The Law is broken down into parts - there is Civil Law, Moral Law and there's Levitical Law [in a broad sense].
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming [Christ] - not the realities themselves." - Does that mean that there is no longer a Law against murder? Nope. But what about animal sacrifice? that is old and vanished away - the Levitical Law together with the Dietary Laws are old and vanished away. The priestly functions, going to a temple - animal sacrifices; you can eat this but not this - The Bible tells us the Sabbath Law has been changed from the time of Moses, the Sacrificial Law has been changed from the time of Moses, the Dietary Law has been changed from the time of Moses so these have all been done away. But the Civil Law - a law that comes from a Civil Government and carries with it a punishment - such as Do not steal (Lev. 19:11; Deut. 5:19) or if you do this - there will be a consequence. . . The NT echos the OT Civil Law, in a broad sense - The Ten Commandments.
There is no punishment for the Moral Laws - they are there for us to know how to behave - this is the way you should behave and the way you should act - but there are penalties for breaking Civil Law and there are today - The Bible doesn't have any law written as to speeding or obeying the speed limits but we know that if we speed and get caught we are going to pay the consequences - if we drink and drive and get caught we are going to pay the consequences - that is Civil Law. So there is the Levitical Law, that was done away in Christ - there is Civil Law that has penalties that go along with it. and then there is Moral Law - the way God wishes you to behave or instructs us as to how to behave as Christians.
The verses below are perfect examples of Moral Law - How God wants us to behave or God's directions for our lives - Is there a stated penalty for these instructions? No . . . If we do neither of them we have not sinned but we have not behaved as God would like us to behave nor followed His instruction.
"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight." Proverbs 11:1, and Proverbs 20:23b "and a false balance is not good."
But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deuteronomy 25:15
God says the wages of sin is death. [Rom. 6:2] Grace provided a substitute - Jesus Christ died instead of you. Or - the law has a penalty - if you do this, you get this - but Grace provides forgiveness.
All I ask is that people understand that the "Law" is a broad spectrum and I guess we need to be more specific when speaking of "The Law". I don't believe any one has said that the whole of the OT is null and void. There is great learning there!
Just needed to say this . . . . .
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming [Christ] - not the realities themselves." - Does that mean that there is no longer a Law against murder? Nope. But what about animal sacrifice? that is old and vanished away - the Levitical Law together with the Dietary Laws are old and vanished away. The priestly functions, going to a temple - animal sacrifices; you can eat this but not this - The Bible tells us the Sabbath Law has been changed from the time of Moses, the Sacrificial Law has been changed from the time of Moses, the Dietary Law has been changed from the time of Moses so these have all been done away. But the Civil Law - a law that comes from a Civil Government and carries with it a punishment - such as Do not steal (Lev. 19:11; Deut. 5:19) or if you do this - there will be a consequence. . . The NT echos the OT Civil Law, in a broad sense - The Ten Commandments.
There is no punishment for the Moral Laws - they are there for us to know how to behave - this is the way you should behave and the way you should act - but there are penalties for breaking Civil Law and there are today - The Bible doesn't have any law written as to speeding or obeying the speed limits but we know that if we speed and get caught we are going to pay the consequences - if we drink and drive and get caught we are going to pay the consequences - that is Civil Law. So there is the Levitical Law, that was done away in Christ - there is Civil Law that has penalties that go along with it. and then there is Moral Law - the way God wishes you to behave or instructs us as to how to behave as Christians.
The verses below are perfect examples of Moral Law - How God wants us to behave or God's directions for our lives - Is there a stated penalty for these instructions? No . . . If we do neither of them we have not sinned but we have not behaved as God would like us to behave nor followed His instruction.
"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight." Proverbs 11:1, and Proverbs 20:23b "and a false balance is not good."
But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deuteronomy 25:15
God says the wages of sin is death. [Rom. 6:2] Grace provided a substitute - Jesus Christ died instead of you. Or - the law has a penalty - if you do this, you get this - but Grace provides forgiveness.
All I ask is that people understand that the "Law" is a broad spectrum and I guess we need to be more specific when speaking of "The Law". I don't believe any one has said that the whole of the OT is null and void. There is great learning there!
Just needed to say this . . . . .
peacefulbeliever
You are right. The sacrificial law with the ordinances thereof are fulfilled in Christ. There are still laws that God gave to Moses that go into detail of how to love God, and how to love our neighbor as ourselves. The physical temple is gone with its physical ordinances. (Hebrews 8:13 along with the following verse in Hebrews 9:1) So many try to take scripture out of context to prove all instructions (the law) are void and abolished in the Old Covenant. There is now one covenant through Christ Jesus that contains much of the old testament truths that you described so brilliantly. The truth is new and renewed in the covenant with Christ. Thank you, and God bless you!
You are right. The sacrificial law with the ordinances thereof are fulfilled in Christ. There are still laws that God gave to Moses that go into detail of how to love God, and how to love our neighbor as ourselves. The physical temple is gone with its physical ordinances. (Hebrews 8:13 along with the following verse in Hebrews 9:1) So many try to take scripture out of context to prove all instructions (the law) are void and abolished in the Old Covenant. There is now one covenant through Christ Jesus that contains much of the old testament truths that you described so brilliantly. The truth is new and renewed in the covenant with Christ. Thank you, and God bless you!
You are confused.
Abraham was not in the covenant of the land with God,
Abraham had nothing to do with the covenant,
he was only the recipient of the covenant from God.
We are not in the new covenant with Christ,
we have nothing to do with the new covenant,
we are only recipients of the new covenant from God
which was cut in the blood of Jesus Christ,
just as the Abrahamic covenant was cut in the blood of animals.
The sacrificial animals are not the author of the Abrahamic covenant,
and Jesus is ot the author of the new covenant.
God is the author of both (Jer 31:31-33).
Abraham was not in the covenant of the land with God,
Abraham had nothing to do with the covenant,
he was only the recipient of the covenant from God.
We are not in the new covenant with Christ,
we have nothing to do with the new covenant,
we are only recipients of the new covenant from God
which was cut in the blood of Jesus Christ,
just as the Abrahamic covenant was cut in the blood of animals.
The sacrificial animals are not the author of the Abrahamic covenant,
and Jesus is ot the author of the new covenant.
God is the author of both (Jer 31:31-33).
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