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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#21
Wait what? you mean even though my slate is wiped clean by the blood of the lamb I have to be reminded of every shameful sin I ever did?
She is correct. Even when the race is won, the other racers still run to finish.
No, Jesus says He will remember our sin no more, and will cast it away never to be used against you.
It is not used against to face spiritual death, we are spared from that. What it does do is determines what rewards we will receive in heaven, by how obedient we were to Him.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#22
No, Jesus says He will remember our sin no more, and will cast it away never to be used against you.
It is not used against to face spiritual death, we are spared from that. What it does do is determines what rewards we will receive in heaven, by how obedient we were to Him.
Jesus will indeed no longer remember our sins but we have to get there first. We know He went before us in faith but we still have to face our own deaths as well.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#23
Jesus will indeed no longer remember our sins but we have to get there first. We know He went before us in faith but we still have to face our own deaths as well.
Only death of our fleshly bodies, we will not face spiritual death ( second death ).
That is reserved for the non-believers and those who deny the Lord our God.

How well we lived will be tested as by fire, and our deeds will be burned up to show what our reward is.
The more obedient the better the reward, yet even the ones who were slightly obedient will still be their but their reward will be less.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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#24
If we are in Christ our deeds have been nailed to the cross, Jesus taking on himself the iniquities of us all. Because of this no one is justified by their works but God has shown grace to all and those who receive it are justified by the work of Christ. No man can boast in their deeds or be condemned by their deeds, God has shown grace to all through Jesus Christ our Lord, to him be the glory forever.
What do you mean no man can be condemned by their deeds? If one doesn't repent are they still saved?
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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#25
Isaiah 64:6 [Full Chapter]
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No matter what we do we will always be saved by grace however if we do donot work righteousness we will be lost .Adam and Eve was saved by grace

Psalm 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Ephesians 2:10King James Version (KJV)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Please elaborate on if we do not work righteousness.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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#26
If we are saved by grace why do we try not to sin ?
I try not to sin out of respect to God, I try to keep his commandments because I want to be obedient to his word, I am not trying to be saved by them anyone who tries will fail horribly.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
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#27
Please expound.
Define judgement.
What kind of judgement are you referring to?
There are temporal judgements in the natural world for the deeds we do, and there are judgements in the after life that will be tried by fire, and there are judgements with eternal consequences.
What verses talk about temporal judgement of the natural world, afterlife, and eternal consequences? I am curious to read where that is found in The Bible.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#28
I try not to sin out of respect to God, I try to keep his commandments because I want to be obedient to his word, I am not trying to be saved by them anyone who tries will fail horribly.
That is correct we don't do this to earn salvation, we do this out of love for Him.

Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
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#29
How do you or anyone "receive" something from God..................Can you accept him. Or did he choose you before he made the world? God is NOT setting around in heaven hoping someone will let him help them. HE SAVES HIS PEOPLE and he cannot fail. He's GOD!! Thank him for HIS mercy and HIS grace and HIS spirit. He finished it and what can you add to God's finished work. We praise God through his Son Jesus Christ for what he has done for his people. Not what you have done for him ,or said ,or how good you are. There are NONE good NONE righteous NONE who seek him. Scripture says "There is NONE righteous. There is NONE that understands. There is NONE that seeketh after God. There is NONE that that doeth Good. No Not ONE. WE are sinners in need of a Saviour who is Jesus Christ.
His people give all honor and Glory and praise to him for what he Did, does and will do. He chose his people, paid, the price for them in blood, and he will Save them. No More no less. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Praise God for his power, might and saving Grace now and forever, not for what you EVER did. OUR GOD is GREAT
Your whole response is condescending, God doesn't need me or anyone to do anything. I wouldn't even try to be saved by own doing. I disregard your whole reply.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#30
Only death of our fleshly bodies, we will not face spiritual death ( second death ).
That is reserved for the non-believers and those who deny the Lord our God.

How well we lived will be tested as by fire, and our deeds will be burned up to show what our reward is.
The more obedient the better the reward, yet even the ones who were slightly obedient will still be their but their reward will be less.
Man is appointed to die but once. Those who have crucified the flesh have already died. Spiritual death is a man made concept. We have all died and have been raised with Him meaning we can avoid death all together. One generation will!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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#31
If we are saved by grace, why are we judged by our deeds?
A couple of people have already explained that it is to determine if our deeds are worthy of heavenly rewards.

I would like to explain that in an little more detail.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


The reward is not literally gold, silver, and precious stones. That is symbolism for that which of value in heaven. The Bible does not actually say what ALL that might be. Just speculating, since we will be serving our KING in His Kingdom; I would much rather be teaching the Children born in the Kingdom, than on permanent KP duty, washing the pots and pans. So perhaps it involves our choice of duties. Perhaps it involves our choice of dwelling places, though I doubt it; but even if it does I would be perfectly happy with a shack out back on the Cyrstal River. The Trout Fishing is bound to be GREAT! Perhaps it involves where we stand before the Throne of Grace. No matter what it is, the handing out of the Rewards will be fair and JUST.

We are told what one of the reward types actually is, and that is Crowns. Before you get to picturing a king's crown, that is referring to the Laurel Wreath Crowns that were handed out to the winning Athletes of the original Olympic style of Games. It is obvious from some of the things that Paul said, he was quite a fan of the sports games.

2 Timothy 4:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] There is reserved for me in the future the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me, but to all those who have loved His appearing.

2 Timothy 2:5 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.

There are also the following Crowns that we can be rewarded with:

Crown of Life
Crown of Glory
Crown of Rejoicing

So what did those athletes of 2000 years ago do with their Laurel Wreath Crowns? After being crowned, they would proudly walk over to the front row of the stadium where the Kings all sat; they would kneel before their King, remove their Crown, and as they said, "I won this for you, my King!"; they would cast it at the feet of their King. I believe that is exactly what will have the honor of doing with our Laurel Wreath Crowns.

So what determines if our works are worthy of REWARDS? MOTIVE!

Only works done for the right MOTIVE will be Rewarded, the rest will be burned up.

So what is the right Motive? LOVE for the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Colossians 2:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#32
That is correct we don't do this to earn salvation, we do this out of love for Him.

Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Exactly, it's not about trying to be saved by doing them, but out of love for him, and others.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#33
If we are saved by grace,
why are we judged by our deeds?
Two kinds of judgment regarding deeds.

1) Judgment for salvation - deeds manifest true faith; if there are none, one is not saved, but condemned.

2) Judgment for reward - deeds which manifest true faith, but are wood, hay and stubble.
One's reward depends on these deeds, but not one's salvation, as in the above.
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#34
What do you mean no man can be condemned by their deeds?
If one doesn't repent are they still saved?
Lack of repentance is unbelief.

It is the unbelief that condemns.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#35
Please elaborate on if we do not work righteousness.
Only the righteous are saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) at the Final Judgment.

No one is righteous other than
those to whom God gives righteousness (Ro 5:17) through faith
in Jesus Christ.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#36
We aren't judged for our sins, as they are put far from sight, the scarlet turned to white. But there is a judgment where we give account and crowns are awarded, which are quite literal (Revelation 4:10, 5:9). Maybe search "crown" in the New Testament and read everything about them? Here's also a blurb I swiped from the web on the Bema Seat Judgment as it's become known as,

Question: "What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?"

Answer: Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context, it is clear that both scriptures are referring to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.

At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#37
Two kinds of judgment regarding deeds.

1) Judgment for salvation - deeds manifest true faith; if there are none, one is not saved, but condemned.

2) Judgment for reward - deeds which manifest true faith, but are wood, hay and stubble.
One's reward depends on these deeds, but not one's salvation, as in the above.

One correction, it is deeds done for the right MOTIVE, which is LOVE for JESUS CHRIST. Deeds done without LOVE for Christ , or for some other selfish Motive, such as to look good to your buddies; ARE WORTHLESS:

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I never knew you is a reference to that Deep Inner Personal Love Realationship that comes after the Holy Spirit has Poured the Love of GOD into our hearts, when we genuinely out of that LOVE receive Jesus Christ as LORD, which means MASTER.

Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Thus the only pure MOTIVE for good works is LOVE:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#38
If we are saved by grace, why are we judged by our deeds?
Because receiving God's grace is conditional upon one's deeds/upon one working righteousness/doing God's will.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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#40
Wait what? you mean even though my slate is wiped clean by the blood of the lamb I have to be reminded of every shameful sin I ever did?
Many falsely believe that the Blood of Christ cleansing us is an automatic thing, no matter what we do.

I John 1:7 But IF (conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Scriptures makes it clear it is conditional, NOT automatic. Many claim to be cleansed but are not cleansed because they are NOT walking in the light as Jesus did.