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Simply, saved or unsaved, God will judge all of us. In fact, as people who are not perfect, we need laws and judges. If we were not judged, no one would fear doing anything wrong. So even as Christ died for our sins, we should still fear God, for her will judge us still and won't like us doing what we know is wrong. And he doesn't discipline the unsaved, but he does to the saved ones who are his children. It's better to just obey him at your best. Yet, when it comes to us humans judging others, there's a time to judge and a time not to judge. It does say do not judge others and you will not be judged. Yet, without ever judging someone you won't tell them when they are doing wrong or right. If we didn't judge, it would be like a cop, doing his job and he notices someone driving far over the speed limit, or something what bad, well the cop notices its wrong, but then he says to himself he shouldn't do anything it stop the person because he shouldn't judge. That's not what God means. God wants us to judge, but not just to insult people, not to make them feel bad, not to force them to change, and surely not by what we think to judge: but God wants us to judge using his words and understandings, and not to be hypocrites. And say it to help them by edification. Like encouraging someone that smoking can do horrible things to you that it's not good to smoke, and saying it knowing it is true and to help them, and not say you smoke, you're a stupid and horrible person! Often many people do hate the truth of God having to admit they're wrong, but we should always show love. And many people and Christian's these days are not judging by God's word, but by what they think, and even if they use God words, they don't do it wanting to really help them with kindness and love from God. So we need judgments, but not to come at others in ways like God doesn't say we should be. And just because you see everyone sinning doesn't mean you are always supposed to point that out to them or come against them. I hope you can understand the difference in judgment.
As long as this started with me.
Now it's my turn after cfultz3
So Just me says..........................
So where are we edified by this subtle correction? Let's see. We are "saved through faith." right?
Luke 7:50b "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So we see, without faith there can be no salvation. So faith is the basis and salvation then is the result of faith.
I see profound waste of screen time. Doowadidididumdiddo! LOL
It's not your bad cfulz3. You're good
Now it's my turn after cfultz3
So Just me says..........................
So where are we edified by this subtle correction? Let's see. We are "saved through faith." right?
Luke 7:50b "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So we see, without faith there can be no salvation. So faith is the basis and salvation then is the result of faith.
I see profound waste of screen time. Doowadidididumdiddo! LOL
It's not your bad cfulz3. You're good
So, you're saying faith only saves?
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Because grace needs acceptance before it becomes yours. And you can only accept grace thru faith. And faith is dead without deeds. Hence the equation will be : NO DEED = NO FAITH
and NO FAITH = NO GRACE
So God's grace on you will always be dependent on your deed.
I always tell myself this: how can I say I love God ( faith ) when I can't love the person beside me ( deed).
and NO FAITH = NO GRACE
So God's grace on you will always be dependent on your deed.
I always tell myself this: how can I say I love God ( faith ) when I can't love the person beside me ( deed).
This is the closest answer to what I was looking for. Lets take it a bit further, Jesus summed up the Ten Commandments in two love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love thy neighbor like thyself, but these two don't replace the Ten Commandments it only magnifies them as to how they are suppose to be kept.
2 John 1
4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. 5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
So yes although we are saved by grace, we will be judged by our deeds. Although we are saved by grace Christ also gave us the foundation on how to walk in Love, by keeping The Commandments.
2 John 1
4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. 5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
So yes although we are saved by grace, we will be judged by our deeds. Although we are saved by grace Christ also gave us the foundation on how to walk in Love, by keeping The Commandments.
C
i'm sitting here holding my head at the idea anyone could ever say 'mere faith'.
mere faith???
Thank God for Jesus and His Gift of faith in Him...
which leads to the Gift of Jesus' righteousness!!
mere faith???
Thank God for Jesus and His Gift of faith in Him...
which leads to the Gift of Jesus' righteousness!!
Faith without works is dead.
If you love Me, follow My commandments.
If you trust Me, come and follow Me.
Mere faith would do none of these, but uses faith as a get-out-of-jail-free card. Mere faith is what you see from one who would cuss and bless God in the same breath. Mere faith approves and lives in a lifestyle displeasing to God.
Thanks for the opportunity in seeking what I meant and not assuming I meant that faith alone does not save, seeing that it says that faith is what shall save a person by the Fire.
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Addendum:
Doing God's will/obeying God's commands is working righteousness.
Not doing God's will/disobeying God's commands is working unrighteousness.
One is judged by his deeds to determine if he was a righteous or unrighteous person. If one's salvation is not determined by his works, then it would not matter if one were righteous or unrighteous/it would not matter what works one did and judgment day would be useless and meaningless.
Doing God's will/obeying God's commands is working righteousness.
Not doing God's will/disobeying God's commands is working unrighteousness.
One is judged by his deeds to determine if he was a righteous or unrighteous person. If one's salvation is not determined by his works, then it would not matter if one were righteous or unrighteous/it would not matter what works one did and judgment day would be useless and meaningless.
Right! James confirms what you say.
James 2:17-20
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone .
18 Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble .
20 But wilt thou know , O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:17-20
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone .
18 Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble .
20 But wilt thou know , O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
If I may, Paul uses the resurrection of Christ to describe the entire plan of salvation. If we adhere to a ministry that denies any part of this plan from the beginning our faith is in vain. This plan involves "every" word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. That includes accepting and desiring to understand God's words contained in the old and well as the new which increases our faith as we live in Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased , that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly ,
1 Corinthians 15:14-17
14 And if Christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up , if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised :
17 And if Christ be not raised , your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
If we have no desire to strive to understand what Jesus fulfilled and accept the falsehood that He voided out the words of His Father given to Moses, our faith is in vain i.e. dead works. There is only one schoolmaster that God has given to confirm the need for salvation. After true faith comes we must continue to go to school. Being born again is the beginning of a new life, and salvation is not something that's over and past.
2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased , that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly ,
1 Corinthians 15:14-17
14 And if Christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up , if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised :
17 And if Christ be not raised , your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
If we have no desire to strive to understand what Jesus fulfilled and accept the falsehood that He voided out the words of His Father given to Moses, our faith is in vain i.e. dead works. There is only one schoolmaster that God has given to confirm the need for salvation. After true faith comes we must continue to go to school. Being born again is the beginning of a new life, and salvation is not something that's over and past.
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P
Chris, will you forgive me?
I didn't honestly even remember who had written it...
I've had a cold and bronchitis, lost a night's sleep praying for our daughter when she was in labor,
and then have been a busy bee driving back and forth to the hospital to see our grandson. ♥
Not that those things would be an excuse for being rude,
but I hope they at least contributed to my failing memory! lol
I think all faith (true God given faith) is a 'get out of jail free card'.
That's the Covenant God has made with us in His Son...
our filth for His Righteousness. (best. trade. ever.)
I also think true faith gifted by God produces the works He prepared for us to walk in,
but though I see many folks quoting the first half of a similar thought, I almost never see the second.
Phil 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The dangers I see from too much talking of what we need to do are these:
it has the potential toward what's known as a theology of glory...not God's glory, man's.
it has the potential to create fear in the heart of the believer. (and if that happens we need the Gospel more, since perfect love casts out fear. )
it has the potential to take honor and praise and glory from the only One Who deserves it.
and i'm afraid for some (and i do not mean you!), it creates a very shallow concept of sin,
and what i call cheap Law, or Law-lite. God's Law is so Perfect, and I wouldn't want to see any of us
lessen its demand to the point we think we're doing it...accomplishing it...making it on our own.
We all still desperately need the Gospel because we are still sinners.
We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him'.
Because the vertical (our relationship to God) is forever fixed (both repaired and unmovable).
And everything we need we already possess in Christ.
So now we are free to love and serve others. (I think that's part of the freedom Christ set us free for!)
God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor surely does.
and once again...does that make any sense?
~ellie
I didn't honestly even remember who had written it...
I've had a cold and bronchitis, lost a night's sleep praying for our daughter when she was in labor,
and then have been a busy bee driving back and forth to the hospital to see our grandson. ♥
Not that those things would be an excuse for being rude,
but I hope they at least contributed to my failing memory! lol
I think all faith (true God given faith) is a 'get out of jail free card'.
That's the Covenant God has made with us in His Son...
our filth for His Righteousness. (best. trade. ever.)
I also think true faith gifted by God produces the works He prepared for us to walk in,
but though I see many folks quoting the first half of a similar thought, I almost never see the second.
Phil 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The dangers I see from too much talking of what we need to do are these:
it has the potential toward what's known as a theology of glory...not God's glory, man's.
it has the potential to create fear in the heart of the believer. (and if that happens we need the Gospel more, since perfect love casts out fear.
)it has the potential to take honor and praise and glory from the only One Who deserves it.
and i'm afraid for some (and i do not mean you!), it creates a very shallow concept of sin,
and what i call cheap Law, or Law-lite. God's Law is so Perfect, and I wouldn't want to see any of us
lessen its demand to the point we think we're doing it...accomplishing it...making it on our own.
We all still desperately need the Gospel because we are still sinners.
We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him'.
Because the vertical (our relationship to God) is forever fixed (both repaired and unmovable).
And everything we need we already possess in Christ.
So now we are free to love and serve others.
(I think that's part of the freedom Christ set us free for!)God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor surely does.
and once again...does that make any sense?
~ellie
C
Chris, will you forgive me?
I didn't honestly even remember who had written it...
I've had a cold and bronchitis, lost a night's sleep praying for our daughter when she was in labor,
and then have been a busy bee driving back and forth to the hospital to see our grandson. ♥
Not that those things would be an excuse for being rude,
but I hope they at least contributed to my failing memory! lol
I didn't honestly even remember who had written it...
I've had a cold and bronchitis, lost a night's sleep praying for our daughter when she was in labor,
and then have been a busy bee driving back and forth to the hospital to see our grandson. ♥
Not that those things would be an excuse for being rude,
but I hope they at least contributed to my failing memory! lol
My Friend Ellie,
Nothing to forgive, I just took it that you did not understand what I (or the person you thought) was saying. And I certainly did not want it to seem I was knocking faith down when it is faith in Christ which God ordained for us.
I hope you are feeling better now. And, congratulations on your new grand-baby
I think all faith (true God given faith) is a 'get out of jail free card'.
That's the Covenant God has made with us in His Son...
our filth for His Righteousness. (best. trade. ever.)
I also think true faith gifted by God produces the works He prepared for us to walk in,
but though I see many folks quoting the first half of a similar thought, I almost never see the second.
Phil 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The dangers I see from too much talking of what we need to do are these:
it has the potential toward what's known as a theology of glory...not God's glory, man's.
it has the potential to create fear in the heart of the believer. (and if that happens we need the Gospel more, since perfect love casts out fear.
)it has the potential to take honor and praise and glory from the only One Who deserves it.
and i'm afraid for some (and i do not mean you!), it creates a very shallow concept of sin,
and what i call cheap Law, or Law-lite. God's Law is so Perfect, and I wouldn't want to see any of us
lessen its demand to the point we think we're doing it...accomplishing it...making it on our own.
We all still desperately need the Gospel because we are still sinners.
We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him'.
Because the vertical (our relationship to God) is forever fixed (both repaired and unmovable).
And everything we need we already possess in Christ.
So now we are free to love and serve others.
(I think that's part of the freedom Christ set us free for!)God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor surely does.
and once again...does that make any sense?
~ellie
Yes, you do make so much sense (as usual), too much of one thing becomes that apple of a person's eye, even if it is God's Law. And I hope and pray that you would be honest with me when I ask you if it seems I am pointing away from the Christ?
I don't want to cause fear, but I know a Lord (Master) needs His servants to obey Him when He is willing and working in them God's good pleasure, because if we don't, we, the believers, are not working out our salvation with fear and trembling due to a Master. But, oh yes, love.....loving the Master will keep one from fear.
Ellie, Ellie, Ellie. What more can be said than, "We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him". If we all would accept God's eternal Will, then there would be no arguments about God's Law and we all could talk about only that Love God showed to us through His Son. But, my friend, some would even dare to say that that walk Jesus is walking us on is work if we try to walk as He commands and would degrade that command of, 'Come and follow Me' to nothing more than a fool's desire. Oh! But that we would all agree that God still desire us to walk righteously, and not as fools not knowing His Will, then I would say only, love and know the presence of God.
For the most part, yes (
as usual )
C
hmmm....well, i don't think we could call it faith at all. (God wouldn't, right?)
love you, Chris.
love you, Chris.
Love you too, Ellie Mae
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My Friend Ellie,
Nothing to forgive, I just took it that you did not understand what I (or the person you thought) was saying. And I certainly did not want it to seem I was knocking faith down when it is faith in Christ which God ordained for us.
I hope you are feeling better now. And, congratulations on your new grand-baby
That God given faith you speak of, that sort which is active, that is what I wish all to possess. I know it is true that I lean more on us being active in faith, but, to me, it seems that is the problem today. Hardly anyone holds themselves accountable before God....Before I get too longwinded, God is so real to me and I want to show people that to have God's presence before your eyes, one has to be pleasing before Him, if one is walking in darkness, then darkness is before him.........
Yes, you do make so much sense (as usual), too much of one thing becomes that apple of a person's eye, even if it is God's Law. And I hope and pray that you would be honest with me when I ask you if it seems I am pointing away from the Christ?
I don't want to cause fear, but I know a Lord (Master) needs His servants to obey Him when He is willing and working in them God's good pleasure, because if we don't, we, the believers, are not working out our salvation with fear and trembling due to a Master. But, oh yes, love.....loving the Master will keep one from fear.
Ellie, Ellie, Ellie. What more can be said than, "We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him". If we all would accept God's eternal Will, then
there would be no arguments about God's Law and we all could talk about only that Love God showed to us through His Son. But, my friend, some would even dare to say that that walk Jesus is walking us on is work if we try to walk as He commands and would degrade that command of, 'Come and follow Me' to nothing more than a fool's desire. Oh! But that we would all agree that
God still desire us to walk righteously, and not as fools not knowing His Will, then I would say only, love and know the presence of God.
For the most part, yes ( as usual )
My Friend Ellie,
Nothing to forgive, I just took it that you did not understand what I (or the person you thought) was saying. And I certainly did not want it to seem I was knocking faith down when it is faith in Christ which God ordained for us.
I hope you are feeling better now. And, congratulations on your new grand-baby
That God given faith you speak of, that sort which is active, that is what I wish all to possess. I know it is true that I lean more on us being active in faith, but, to me, it seems that is the problem today. Hardly anyone holds themselves accountable before God....Before I get too longwinded, God is so real to me and I want to show people that to have God's presence before your eyes, one has to be pleasing before Him, if one is walking in darkness, then darkness is before him.........
Yes, you do make so much sense (as usual), too much of one thing becomes that apple of a person's eye, even if it is God's Law. And I hope and pray that you would be honest with me when I ask you if it seems I am pointing away from the Christ?
I don't want to cause fear, but I know a Lord (Master) needs His servants to obey Him when He is willing and working in them God's good pleasure, because if we don't, we, the believers, are not working out our salvation with fear and trembling due to a Master. But, oh yes, love.....loving the Master will keep one from fear.
Ellie, Ellie, Ellie. What more can be said than, "We should be talking at least as much about what God in Christ has done for us
as what we must do 'for Him". If we all would accept God's eternal Will, then
there would be no arguments about God's Law and we all could talk about only that Love God showed to us through His Son. But, my friend, some would even dare to say that that walk Jesus is walking us on is work if we try to walk as He commands and would degrade that command of, 'Come and follow Me' to nothing more than a fool's desire. Oh! But that we would all agree that
God still desire us to walk righteously, and not as fools not knowing His Will, then I would say only, love and know the presence of God.
For the most part, yes (
as usual )
Those who would degrade Christ's command to follow him do not know the NT.
The NT suffers no shortage of commands for walking righteously with God.
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God is developing holy, righteous character in His children. Character is not a gift, it is developed by actions. When the family of God is complete, after the Millennium and GWTJ, God wants children who will always choose to do right and will not follow the path of Lucifer...
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
So, He is developing righteous character in His children so that 50,000 years from now when they are sent to some far flung part of the universe to complete something for Him, they will do it as He says to and not rebel.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
So, He is developing righteous character in His children so that 50,000 years from now when they are sent to some far flung part of the universe to complete something for Him, they will do it as He says to and not rebel.
Two kinds of judgment regarding deeds.
1) Judgment for salvation - deeds manifest true faith; if there are none, one is not saved, but condemned.
2) Judgment for reward - deeds which manifest true faith, but are wood, hay and stubble.
One's reward depends on these deeds, but not one's salvation, as in the above.
1) Judgment for salvation - deeds manifest true faith; if there are none, one is not saved, but condemned.
2) Judgment for reward - deeds which manifest true faith, but are wood, hay and stubble.
One's reward depends on these deeds, but not one's salvation, as in the above.
