Whoever cares to answer

Jason0047 · Sep 13, 2014

Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone both in Justification and in Sanctification. However, there are people who seek to pervert the gospel. For on one wrong extreme: If you believe you can do evil in God's name then you insult the cross and what Christ has done for you. The other wrong extreme is thinking you can need to perform a "To Do List" in order to be saved. Both are wrong extremes of each other. Salvation is in repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior. Jesus is your source of salvation. Jesus is the gift of eternal life. God is our gift and the means by which we possess salvation. No God. No salvation. So if you have God living in your life, then holiness and fruitful works will naturally result. If one sins, they confess of their sin so as to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

Kerry · Sep 13, 2014

Brother you are getting close, but a Christian can do evil and in the name of Jesus. They claim the name even though the meat of the name is not behind it. Many Christians do works in the name of Jesus and yet Jesus has nothing to do with it. The only thing that the Father will accept is faith in the cross and nothing else, no matter how good you are and no matter what you do.

Jason0047 · Sep 13, 2014

Kerry said:

A professing Christian who is not saved can do evil in His name. But a saved Christian who is saved does not do evil in His name. The true believer repents or confesses of their sins and they forksake them with God's help. They do not remain in unrepentant sin. See 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:9.

This is simply not true. You can't be a person who ongoingly practices the abuse of children and yet also does acts of God by faith. Such a person would not be saved. Anymore than a serial killer who still kills people and who strives to do acts of faith, too. Read Romans chapter 6 and see what Paul says about continuing in sin or not. Is there any Bible passage that specifically states that you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved? When I read the Scriptures, there are many warnings to the believer that they can't do such a thing.

Jason0047 · Sep 13, 2014

In other words, you think God is not concerned with doing what is right. Yet Jesus condemned the Pharisee's evil actions. God in the Old Testament condemned Israel for their wickedness or sin. Why do you think God changed all of a sudden so as to allow you to do evil? What is the purpose in serving a God that would allow you to do evil in His name? Does not the Scriptures say that God doesn't change? Doesn't the Scriptures also say that God is good? How can God be good if He allowed you to do evil?

What you propose doesn't make any sense.

Elin · Sep 13, 2014

twotwo said:

And he that habitually does wrong does not have saving faith,

and his unbelief is the wrong for which he shall receive.

Elin · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

God through his Spirit does the heavy lifting of obedience, he enables and moves us
to walk in obedience.

Walking is not heavy lifting.

Yes, God does the work (Php 2:13).

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Jason0047 said:

On various topics in the Bible, the Scriptures are written sometimes from two different perspectives. For example: In the Scriptures, sometimes it appears that God does not know certain things and yet other times it appears that God does indeed know all things. Is this a contradiction in Scripture? No, most certainly not. One perspective or set of Scriptures teach that God is eternal and knows all things and the other perspective is written from the perspective of how God relates to man from a human perspective. It's the same with the topic of faith vs. works. In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul essentially says we are saved by grace and not of works. Yet James essentially says in James 2:17 that faith without works is a dead faith. This leads us to the teaching within Scripture that tells us that God is the One who ultimately does the work within the believer. How so?

Well, here is a list of verses that tell us that it is God (Christ) that does the work in a believer's life.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

not of works (works of the law) unto good works (works of faith)
He laboured...he is giving God the praise and the glory... because God gives us the power to do the work....we should walk in them.
Where does the scripture say...So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

CRC · Sep 13, 2014

Evidence of true repentance or lack of it, not our deeds are the basis for judgment.

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Elin said:

show a scripture where it says ...God through his Spirit does the heavy lifting of obedience, he enables and moves us
to walk in obedience.

God works in you to will and to act ...means he gives you the power to will and to act...he commands us to be obedient...like Christ was obedient unto death...That is why he gave us the HS.

2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Grandpa · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

Ezekiel 36:25-28
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Grandpa said:

cause you to walk does not mean...God through his Spirit does the heavy lifting of obedience, he enables and moves us
to walk in obedience.
The HS gives us the power to do...to obey..... the HS is the cause of our obedience...the HS does not obey for us... ye shall keep my judgements and do them....it does not say the HS shall keep and do...

Elin · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

Grandpa said:

cause you to walk does not mean...

God through his Spirit does the heavy lifting of obedience, he enables and moves us to walk in obedience.

That is precisely what it means.

Look up the meaning of "cause."

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Elin said:

does the HS obey for you or does God give you the power to obey through the HS?

Jason0047 · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

Yes, God helps us to obey Him. God does not force us to obey. We have free will. We are merely yielding to the "good work" that God desires to do within us. However, the problem is that you are giving credit to yourself for the work that you do, then you turn around and say Paul is simply thanking God for the power for him to do the work. You think Paul is taking credit in some way. That is not what I see in 1 Corinthians 15:10. Paul did not say, "thank you God for the power that you give to me to do the good work. I am glad I share in your power." Paul in no way says anything like this or implies such a thing. Paul in no way gives credit to himself. That is what you are saying. You are saying the arm of your own flesh deserves the glory, honor, and power. But Paul says it is not him that labored more, but it was the grace of God that did so. You don't believe that.

Paul says it is the grace of God that made him to labor more.
Yet you say it is Paul and God that made him labor more.

For Paul said it was not himself that made him labor more, but it was the grace of God.

For you are trying to take credit for the fruits of the Spirit within a believer's life.
For in Galatians chapter 5, please tell me. Are the fruits of the Spirit (Such as love, joy, peace, etc.) which is done in a believer your own fruit, or is it the fruit of the Spirit?

Elin · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

I'll let you read again what I said, then we can go from there.

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Jason0047 said:

twisting what I say makes you a liar...I said no such thing
"You are saying the arm of your own flesh deserves the glory, honor, and power."
2 Timothy 4:6-8King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

are we to understand that because Paul did not mention giving God the glory and the praise here...that he did what he did on his own and he deserves the honour and glory?

you agree that God does not force us to obey....yet you insist God made him do it....I suppose when a man does evil he can say the devil made me do it...

are you saying grace is a force that pushes us beyond our will and make us do things?

again you are accusing me of something I never did.... the fruit of the spirit is done in the believer so why is Paul telling them to walk in the spirit....because they were not walking in the spirit
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

we are responsible for everything we do in this body ...good or bad

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Elin said:

this is not scripture...God through his Spirit does the heavy lifting of obedience,
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Yahshua · Sep 13, 2014

LEPIDUS said:

It's the same reason why the Children of Israel were judged even after being saved from Pharaoh: faith is proven by obedience to what God tells us to *do* (i.e. deeds).

-----

1) Israel was saved from the bondage of Egypt. They didn't deserve it. They performed no action to merit it. It was by God's grace alone that they were freed through the blood of the lamb.

2) Then they were told to *walk* the path God laid out for them (to the reed sea...to the mountain...through the wilderness...pick manna on specific days and not on others...); required to take certain actions. They were required to obey and do, which would prove their faith in the one they claimed to follow.

3) But unfortunately many kept wanting to turn back to the comfort of their past, even though it was bondage. Many rather go back to that moment they were first saved by the blood of the lamb...and rather stay there...before they left the gates of Egypt to start their journey...because at least here, they had no responsibility; there was no *work* they were required to do. God did it all...so they're content to remain right here.

4) And once Israel reached the point in their *walk* when it was time to cross over and reap the promises God had for them, they refused to *take action*; they refused to enter in...because they believed the *task* (i.e. action) was too hard for them to complete. Even though God was with them, they kept viewing the task as something they'd have to do *under their own power*. So they refused the task. It proved they didn't really have faith in the God that once saved them. So God swore they'd walk in circles for the rest of their lives...never experiencing his reward...until they all died.

-----

*After* salvation, there's your walk of faith, which is only proven by your *acts of obedience* (i.e. deeds) to what God has told you to do. If you are not obediently doing what God says, you are not faithful...and if you're not faithful, you do not love God but treat him with contempt.

Jason0047 · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth said:

Yes, this is true. But in John chapter 8, Jesus said that the Pharisees did those things of their father the devil. For whosever sins is of the devil. But if we walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus, there is no condemnation, though (Romans 8:1). It's a walk in Christ Jesus. It's not a lonely walk in yourself. Yes, every person will be held accountable for what they do at some sort of Judgment (i.e. unbelievers will be at the Great White Throne Judgment and believers will be at the Judgment seat of Christ), but do we see the elders keeping their crowns? Or do they cast their crowns down before the king? Why would they do that? Did they not earn those crowns? Don't they deserve them? Why would they give them up?

In other words, a believer is held accountable for on allowing God to work within their life or not.

newbirth · Sep 13, 2014

Jason0047 said:

you are just playing with words
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

change your mindset...
Philippians 2:5-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Whoever cares to answer

Banned

Kerry

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

CRC

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned