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E
Actually you don't get it Jason. Someone bent on killing is not going to listen to reason.
Not too long ago a gunman was in a mall shooting people. One guy pulled his gun and drew down on the guy. The gunman saw the gun pointed at him. He then turned the gun on himself and pulled the trigger
Another..A guy goes into a school (sandy hook) kills a bunch of kids the principle and teachers. Then he kills himself.
Another...remember the guys who robbed the bank and had the huge shootout with police? Did they listen to reason?
Another...columbine two kids kill a bunch of fellow students and then kill themselves.
Do any of these situations sound like someone willing to listen to reason?
Not too long ago a gunman was in a mall shooting people. One guy pulled his gun and drew down on the guy. The gunman saw the gun pointed at him. He then turned the gun on himself and pulled the trigger
Another..A guy goes into a school (sandy hook) kills a bunch of kids the principle and teachers. Then he kills himself.
Another...remember the guys who robbed the bank and had the huge shootout with police? Did they listen to reason?
Another...columbine two kids kill a bunch of fellow students and then kill themselves.
Do any of these situations sound like someone willing to listen to reason?
No, Paul was outward Jew and not an inward Jew. Outward Jews looked to be justified by the Law (Pharisees, etc.). Inward Jews (like the disciples) followed their Messiah. Paul was not a follower of Jesus in the beginning. Jesus had to directly confront Him. He essentially asked Paul why was he persecuting His people; Also, Paul stood by as they were stoning Steven, too.
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C
But Jason, again, what do you do with the fact that 'turn the other cheek' was already an old testament concept? The idea of not returning evil for evil, not returning insult for insult, and loving your enemy and not rejoicing when they stumble all come from the old testament.
So yes, Jesus is talking about a change, but it's a change back to the old testament from where his audience had strayed. He was directing them back to God's original revelation, which affirmed eye for eye, but didn't pervert it to mean hate your enemy. And remember, Jesus was still living in old testament times. The new covenant hadn't started yet.
Yep, all in the old testament.
Ex. 23:4 “If you meet your enemy’s ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again. 5 If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden, and you would refrain from helping it, you shall surely help him with it.
Deut. 32:35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’
Pro 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
Pro 24:17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
Do you really think Christ was not aware of these old testament principles? Jesus is not rebuking the old testament! I'm amazed at how uninformed some christians are about the old testament. And unfortunately, the church is becoming less and less familiar with it, particularly the book of Genesis.
Okay, so Jesus only told them to buy a sword, so that you would know not to buy one. This is modern day exegesis. Jesus initially wanted men to sell even their clothing if they needed to to buy one, but then sort of stepped back and said ha ha, tricked you. Yikes. How about we just trust the word of God, and not try to retro fit it to our personal philosophies.
How does that work against me? That's my attitude toward the sword. It's something you use only if necessary. You don't live it, which is to say, you don't make it a way of life.
Okay, so then you're fine with guns and other weapons that kill, so long as you can get someone else to use them on your behalf. You won't do the deed and kill someone, but you'll be quite happy to call another to do it.
But considering everything you stand for, shouldn't you be relying on God an angels, instead of men with guns?
And BTW, if you can't handle a gun, for various reasons, both physically or emotionally, or logistically, then calling upon a friend or the police for help is perfectly fine.
And Jason, I would say to you, knowing you're not going to change your view on this, I'm glad at least you have no problem calling others with guns. It may save our life one day
So yes, Jesus is talking about a change, but it's a change back to the old testament from where his audience had strayed. He was directing them back to God's original revelation, which affirmed eye for eye, but didn't pervert it to mean hate your enemy. And remember, Jesus was still living in old testament times. The new covenant hadn't started yet.
Yep, all in the old testament.
Ex. 23:4 “If you meet your enemy’s ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again. 5 If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden, and you would refrain from helping it, you shall surely help him with it.
Deut. 32:35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’
Pro 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
Pro 24:17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
Do you really think Christ was not aware of these old testament principles? Jesus is not rebuking the old testament! I'm amazed at how uninformed some christians are about the old testament. And unfortunately, the church is becoming less and less familiar with it, particularly the book of Genesis.
Okay, so Jesus only told them to buy a sword, so that you would know not to buy one. This is modern day exegesis. Jesus initially wanted men to sell even their clothing if they needed to to buy one, but then sort of stepped back and said ha ha, tricked you. Yikes. How about we just trust the word of God, and not try to retro fit it to our personal philosophies.
How does that work against me? That's my attitude toward the sword. It's something you use only if necessary. You don't live it, which is to say, you don't make it a way of life.
Okay, so then you're fine with guns and other weapons that kill, so long as you can get someone else to use them on your behalf. You won't do the deed and kill someone, but you'll be quite happy to call another to do it.
But considering everything you stand for, shouldn't you be relying on God an angels, instead of men with guns?
And BTW, if you can't handle a gun, for various reasons, both physically or emotionally, or logistically, then calling upon a friend or the police for help is perfectly fine.
And Jason, I would say to you, knowing you're not going to change your view on this, I'm glad at least you have no problem calling others with guns. It may save our life one day
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E
I say we go back to the saying in the early 1900's "God made man, Sam Colt made man equal" (or whatever version you prefer).
I even think that's in the New Testament since we are making the Bible say what we want anyway. It's in the book of um...spaghetti western.
And for those of you who are gonna take me serious on this...God bless you!
I even think that's in the New Testament since we are making the Bible say what we want anyway. It's in the book of um...spaghetti western.
And for those of you who are gonna take me serious on this...God bless you!
Re: The Pacifism of Sin
brother, it's negligence when you have the means to do something and don't. We can dance around this all day. Like I said we are all different parts of one body. If God puts me there it is to do something. Regardless of the situation. Long story short I don't know why He would call you or Jason or anyone else who would do nothing. So, maybe He never will.
brother, it's negligence when you have the means to do something and don't. We can dance around this all day. Like I said we are all different parts of one body. If God puts me there it is to do something. Regardless of the situation. Long story short I don't know why He would call you or Jason or anyone else who would do nothing. So, maybe He never will.
C
On a serious note, just a quick word on that passage
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.
Notice the items expressed here generally what we'd consider small things, a shirt and coat, walking one mile vs. two, slaps on the cheek, etc. It would seem to me Christ is telling us (to put it in a very modern vernacular) don't' sweat the small stuff. Whatever can be endured, endure it. Be that guy that's will to let things go, and endure even what you don't have to.
The perversion comes when others tempt you to take it where Christ never intended. Enduring bodily harm, rather than just insults. Giving way your house and livelihood instead of just a coat. Walking until you drop, rather than just a couple miles.
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.
Notice the items expressed here generally what we'd consider small things, a shirt and coat, walking one mile vs. two, slaps on the cheek, etc. It would seem to me Christ is telling us (to put it in a very modern vernacular) don't' sweat the small stuff. Whatever can be endured, endure it. Be that guy that's will to let things go, and endure even what you don't have to.
The perversion comes when others tempt you to take it where Christ never intended. Enduring bodily harm, rather than just insults. Giving way your house and livelihood instead of just a coat. Walking until you drop, rather than just a couple miles.