The Sin of Pacifism

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Deadtosin said:
Can you think of a better way to incorporate the atrocities in question with the teaching "don't deny those who ask of you?" I do understand your point, there are rape victims on here, and you know what I would think offends them the most? christians saying they shouldn't defend themselves, nor should other christians defend them. That would offend me and DOES offend me more than I could ever describe.
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The teaching "Don't deny those who ask of you", well, if someone is starving and asks me for a sandwich, should I turn him away? NO!! God says to give of ourselves to others, be it food, money, shelter, etc etc. If a guy is raping someone I'm gonna be the first one to pull that pig off the girl!! I sure as heck wouldnt say "ok God you said not to resist evil, so I'll stand here and watch and let it happen"!!

Anyone who stands by and knowingly lets evil happen obviously does not know God or his commands very well. We are NOT to be by-standers--we are to intervene and help, if we can. Jesus said "whatsoever you do to another, you do to me." The same applies if we DON'T do something for or to another person. How many of you would stand by and let Jesus get raped, simply because you dont want to defend him?
 
blue_ladybug said:
I think some of the people on this thread have lost their moral compass..:(
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Well speak your peace lady (bug). So far you're just standing in the shadows throwing out smug potshots. If you have something to say, say it. Tell us why you're offended that someone would joke about an atrocity, but not offended if they just stand by quietly and let it happen. Why do you think this makes you more righteous? Waiting….

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blue_ladybug said:
The teaching "Don't deny those who ask of you", well, if someone is starving and asks me for a sandwich, should I turn him away? NO!! God says to give of ourselves to others, be it food, money, shelter, etc etc. If a guy is raping someone I'm gonna be the first one to pull that pig off the girl!! I sure as heck wouldnt say "ok God you said not to resist evil, so I'll stand here and watch and let it happen"!!

Anyone who stands by and knowingly lets evil happen obviously does not know God or his commands very well. We are NOT to be by-standers--we are to intervene and help, if we can. Jesus said "whatsoever you do to another, you do to me." The same applies if we DON'T do something for or to another person. How many of you would stand by and let Jesus get raped, simply because you dont want to defend him?
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Okay, so let me get this straight. You're saying if a guy was raping a girl, you'd pull him off. But what if you're not strong enough? Do you blow his brains out? Or at least knock him unconscious with a bat?

And if you're answer is yes, then what the heck are were arguing about??
 
Calminian said:
Well speak your peace lady (bug). So far you're just standing in the shadows throwing out smug potshots. If you have something to say, say it. Tell us why you're offended that someone would joke about an atrocity, but not offended if they just stand by quietly and let it happen. Why do you think this makes you more righteous? Waiting….

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I am NOT "throwing out smug potshots." I would be equally offended if they stood by and did nothing..I don't think what I said makes me more righteous than anyone else. But apparently those who sit back and do nothing because they think God told them not to resist evil, do.. If your ok with letting someone rape your wife, then that is on your head..and someday you will answer to God for that..

As for me, I would intervene, as Jesus would have me do..
 
Calminian said:
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're saying if a guy was raping a girl, you'd pull him off. But what if you're not strong enough? Do you blow his brains out? Or at least knock him unconscious with a bat?

And if you're answer is yes, then what the heck are were arguing about??
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Um ....after ladybug's last response I am not so sure that's the right question to ask.
 
Calminian said:
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're saying if a guy was raping a girl, you'd pull him off. But what if you're not strong enough? Do you blow his brains out? Or at least knock him unconscious with a bat?

And if you're answer is yes, then what the heck are were arguing about??
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No one is arguing.. At least if I TRIED pulling him off, I would be helping the girl..which is more than I could say than if I stood there and did nothing at all..
 
blue_ladybug said:
I am NOT "throwing out smug potshots." I would be equally offended if they stood by and did nothing..I don't think what I said makes me more righteous than anyone else. But apparently those who sit back and do nothing because they think God told them not to resist evil, do.. If your ok with letting someone rape your wife, then that is on your head..and someday you will answer to God for that..

As for me, I would intervene, as Jesus would have me do..
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Yes, it's better than nothing. You do what you can at that moment. I appreciate your passion, my dear ladybug, I really do. Please please just read a little bit of the threads you post on in order to get the background. At least read the OP. We're arguing your position.

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blue_ladybug said:
No one is arguing.. At least if I TRIED pulling him off, I would be helping the girl..which is more than I could say than if I stood there and did nothing at all..
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But now are you also against guns and using violent force to protect the innocent?
 
As Christians we are not to stand by and watch innocent people be punished, persecuted, attacked, and killed.
In the same time though we are to be careful how we initiate our reactions, protection, and defense we use. If the death of yourself, the one being attacked, and the attacker can all be avoided then that is how we are to go.
If you have to end up killing the attacker to make the one/s being attacked and yourself safe then that is how you are to go and will be acceptable. Still pray to God in Jesus name for forgiveness for not having any other choice.
 
Calminian said:
Yes, it's better than nothing. You do what you can at that moment. I appreciate your passion, my dear ladybug, I really do. Please please just read a little bit of the threads you post on in order to get the background. At least read the OP. We're arguing your position.

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I did read through the threads..lol..apparently you did'nt read the same ones I did..go to page 18 and read the entire page, specifically post #344, 347,349, and 355..


and no i'm not against using force to protect an innocent person. I would'nt use a gun, unless I absolutely have to..There ARE other ways of using force that don't require using a weapon.
 
blue_ladybug said:
I did read through the threads..lol..apparently you did'nt read the same ones I did..go to page 18 and read the entire page, specifically post #344, 347,349, and 355..


and no i'm not against using force to protect an innocent person. I would'nt use a gun, unless I absolutely have to..There ARE other ways of using force that don't require using a weapon.
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Okay so we're like totally in sync. I agree with you, you agree with me.

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Jason0047 said:
Also, one cannot have God in their heart and joke and laugh about someone having been raped. I am more and more afraid for people here.
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Nobody laughing about an ACTUAL RAPE, but rather at your inability to blend ALL truth to come up with a sound, solid theology....SO....again you judge people's heart and salvation which you have no ability to do....so....!
 
kennethcadwell said:
As Christians we are not to stand by and watch innocent people be punished, persecuted, attacked, and killed.
In the same time though we are to be careful how we initiate our reactions, protection, and defense we use. If the death of yourself, the one being attacked, and the attacker can all be avoided then that is how we are to go.
If you have to end up killing the attacker to make the one/s being attacked and yourself safe then that is how you are to go and will be acceptable. Still pray to God in Jesus name for forgiveness for not having any other choice.
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Very well said.
 
blue_ladybug said:
View attachment 88649 That is just...soooo wrong to joke about. :/
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You know...not one person is joking about rape in here as it is a serious offence....you do understand SARCASM, Facetious and any other word of like caliber.....Any man in his right mind in this chat site would defend any WOMAN being raped except maybe ONE and he is out of his mind to think that if a woman was being raped to stand there and pray about it...there is a time for action and NO WAY ANYBODY can convince me that GOD would find fault with defending a WOMAN being raped or a child being molested or a little old lady being killed....EVEN if it resulted in the death of the assailant!
 
elf3 said:
OK let me try to explain this again to you...now read carefully ok.

Saul was persecuting Christians. We are not talking about persecution here. Do you understand?
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I've already said I understand but that was not MY POINT as to why I brought up Saul persecuting Christians. The POINT if you care to listen, was NOT what you are talking about. The POINT I was talking about had to do with you having the right to retaliate in lethal force against Paul if you felt threatened for your life against him. However, if you were to try and kill Saul because he was out to have them put in prison or to be executed, you would have been going against God's plan for Saul's life because he was later converted to the faith and saved.
 
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kennethcadwell said:
As Christians we are not to stand by and watch innocent people be punished, persecuted, attacked, and killed.
In the same time though we are to be careful how we initiate our reactions, protection, and defense we use. If the death of yourself, the one being attacked, and the attacker can all be avoided then that is how we are to go.
If you have to end up killing the attacker to make the one/s being attacked and yourself safe then that is how you are to go and will be acceptable. Still pray to God in Jesus name for forgiveness for not having any other choice.
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Why ask for forgiveness if it is not wrong to use lethal force in self defense?
 
blue_ladybug said:
I am NOT "throwing out smug potshots." I would be equally offended if they stood by and did nothing..I don't think what I said makes me more righteous than anyone else. But apparently those who sit back and do nothing because they think God told them not to resist evil, do.. If your ok with letting someone rape your wife, then that is on your head..and someday you will answer to God for that..

As for me, I would intervene, as Jesus would have me do..
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I would intervene too. If someone would try to attack my woman I would break the guy's neck.
 
Jason, your own reason for doing nothing "God could make them *poof" can be turned back around to say "God can stop me from killing the assailant" God delivers us and He delivers our enemies into our hands. If we are stepping in and doing whatever we can FOR GOD then we should not be so naive as to believe that suddenly now we can kill someone God does not intend to let die. People do get shot and not die, some people miss, often times the sound of a gun being cocked is enough to make an assailant run, I doubt very strongly however that your standing back and rebuking will have the desired effect. Even the apostles found some situations beyond their power of prayer and they were able to do REAL miracles. I don't know about you, but I've never successfully healed the lame, the blind or the leper. I just have to love God, love man and do the absolute best I can in any given situation and under NO circumstance am I going to be able to sit idly by and let people get murdered. You know I actually have a plan against a mass shooter if I'm in the theater. Want to know what it is? throw my Iphone 3s at his face, followed by my large pepsi and do the best I can to hurdle the rows to close the distance. You think I should scratch that and stand up and loudly rebuke him in the name of Jesus- remember this Jason. "It's hard to be heard over gunfire"
 
Jason0047 said:
Why ask for forgiveness if it is not wrong to use lethal force in self defense?
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Self defense you should not ask forgiveness of, but lethal force you should because taking ones life is still wrong.
If you are put in a position where it is unavoidable to take a life then you still need to ask forgiveness for the life you took.
If you don't believe taking a life is wrong, then you would also agree with the death penalty which is not the way of our Lord.
 
dcontroversal said:
Nobody laughing about an ACTUAL RAPE, but rather at your inability to blend ALL truth to come up with a sound, solid theology....SO....again you judge people's heart and salvation which you have no ability to do....so....!
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Uh, I do recall you laughing at a joke about someone having been raped. Yes, it was under an askewed view of my belief on this topic, but it was still heartless and inappropriate. Whether you agee with my view on this topic within the Bible or not, making jokes about rape and laughing about it under any situation or scenario is wrong and sinful. And the church can say correct each other and tell someone that their heart is not right with God. See the story of Simon the sorcerer.
 
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