We are in the end times

[Bookends]

another issue would be Jesus calling 2000 years ago "the last time" that makes no sense at all.

Multiple times in scripture "the last time" is only referring to an epic in time. You know your bible right? Peter, Paul, James all said they were living in the last days...Last days of what, of Jewish/temple centered worship/Jewish society. Do you need proof?

Hebrews 1, In these last days God has spoken to us by His Son...

We are in the last age.

 

[Bookends]

Come on brother, I'm giving you scripture of why I believe what I believe. All you are giving me is sensationalism.

 

[Marian29]

Bible verses about revelation book I think are fulfilling:

Rev. 1:3 ¶ Blessed {is} he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time {is} at hand.

Rev.1:1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified {it} by his angel unto his servant John:

Take note:
Woman = Church
Prostitute = Bad Church { Eph. 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"
Water = Peoples, multitudes {Rev.17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Rev. 17:1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:"

Rev. 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Who is the church?

Rev. 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."

Rev. 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

Millions of people were killed during the Papal Inquisition

Her accusation?
Heresy: to read the Bible

Rev. 17:9 "And here {is} the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

(google Rome 7 hills map)

Roma:
"Limem Apostolorum, la citta dei sette colli"
Translation:
"Entry of the Apostles, the city of seven hills"

Roman Catholic Church:
"The color of the bishops and other prelates,for the cardinals scarlet ... the pastoral cross should be made of gold
and decorated with stones..."
Idem, Pags. 175,178 and 466.

Rome is famous for being built on seven hills ( "la citta dei sette colli" - "the city of seven hills")

That means the Beast of Revelations 17 comes from Roman Catholic Church.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Rome is famous for being built on seven hills ( "la citta dei sette colli" - "the city of seven hills")

Hills, or mountains,

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

And yes, Rome was famous for being built on seven hills, so what sort of wisdom is required, if the reference is to something commonly known of Rome anybody would see? Revelation 17 goes on to describe kingdoms and kings, one of which existed at the time of the writing of Revelation.

 

[JesusChica1991]

I agree that we should all anticipate the return of Christ at any moment. It is Scriptural. However, God is also the King of Everlasting Mercy before his Judgment day. I look at it this way: God delays His return and wrath so that others can hear the Gospel and can turn to repentance. Yes, I look for the day he returns in his Second Coming; but, I also thank God for his patience to sinners who need grace and patience just as much as we, ourselves, need grace and patience from our Lord.

 

[PlainWord]

Every church era (Rev 2-3) has believed that they are living in the "last days". Even so, I do believe that prophecies are lining up to be fulfilled that have never been before.

I do not believe Rev 2-3, the 7 churches represent "church eras." I believe the 7 churches are current churches all of which will enter the Tribulation.

• 1 Christian denominational families
• 2 Largest denominations in the world
  • 2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
  • 2.2 Protestantism - 800 million
  • 2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million
  • 2.4 Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million
  • 2.5 Anglicanism - 85 million
  • 2.6 Restorationism and Non-Trinitarianism - 41 million
  • 2.7 Church of the East - 0.6 million

 

[john832]

I do not believe Rev 2-3, the 7 churches represent "church eras." I believe the 7 churches are current churches all of which will enter the Tribulation.

• 1 Christian denominational families
• 2 Largest denominations in the world
  • 2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
  • 2.2 Protestantism - 800 million
  • 2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million
  • 2.4 Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million
  • 2.5 Anglicanism - 85 million
  • 2.6 Restorationism and Non-Trinitarianism - 41 million
  • 2.7 Church of the East - 0.6 million

Well, that is one of the things about prophecy, different people have different ideas.

 

[JimmieD]

I do not believe Rev 2-3, the 7 churches represent "church eras." I believe the 7 churches are current churches all of which will enter the Tribulation.

• 1 Christian denominational families
• 2 Largest denominations in the world
  • 2.1 Catholicism - 1.2 billion
  • 2.2 Protestantism - 800 million
  • 2.3 Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million
  • 2.4 Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million
  • 2.5 Anglicanism - 85 million
  • 2.6 Restorationism and Non-Trinitarianism - 41 million
  • 2.7 Church of the East - 0.6 million

The easiest way to understand it is that the 7 churches were actual churches physically in Asia Minor in John's day. There is no warrant for imposing some other meaning. He's pretty clear on the matter and the content of the letters makes it pretty clear too.

 

[john832]

The easiest way to understand it is that the 7 churches were actual churches physically in Asia Minor in John's day. There is no warrant for imposing some other meaning. He's pretty clear on the matter and the content of the letters makes it pretty clear too.

Other than this was put into a prophetic book composed of allegory, metaphor and symbolism.

 

[JimmieD]

Other than this was put into a prophetic book composed of allegory, metaphor and symbolism.

Maybe if the letters weren't specific in who they were written to and containing information that was relevant primarily to churches in those cities.

Take the letter to Pergamum for example. First, it is specifically addressed to the people at the church in Pergamum:

2:12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum​

If a reference to a specific location isn't enough, then secondly, he refers to a specific individual, by name, who was martyred. Third, he refers to the city of Pergamum as a "city":

2:13 ‘I know where you live – where Satan’s throne is. Yetyou continue to clingto my name and you have not denied yourfaith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness,who was killed in your city​

Fourth, he refers to specific issues the church in Pergamum was facing, including dealing with the "teachings of Balaam" (the same teachings about eating food sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality that Paul and the Jerusalem Council also dealt with) and the teachings of the Nicolaitans (who existed in the first century church):

2:14 But I have a few things against you: You have some people there who follow the teaching of Balaam,who instructed Balak to put a stumbling blockbefore the peopleof Israel so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality.2:15 In the same way, there are also some among you who follow the teaching of the Nicolaitans.​

You can do the same type of analysis with the other churches as well. It's fairly easy to see they were written to, for, and about 7 churches physically located in Asia Minor in the 1st century. This is just simple literary analysis identifying author and audience - it's not hard.

 

[watty]

Has anyone considered that the world has been destroyed many times and man has had to begin over and over again, like Noah. I believe we are in the end times. The end of the world as we know it. With all of the wars going on we may be back to living in caves if the wrong button is pushed (nuclear war). Just do what is right and live right.

 

[JimmieD]

Maybe if the letters weren't specific in who they were written to and containing information that was relevant primarily to churches in those cities.

Take the letter to Pergamum for example. First, it is specifically addressed to the people at the church in Pergamum:

2:12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum​

If a reference to a specific location isn't enough, then secondly, he refers to a specific individual, by name, who was martyred. Third, he refers to the city of Pergamum as a "city":

2:13 ‘I know where you live – where Satan’s throne is. Yetyou continue to clingto my name and you have not denied yourfaith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness,who was killed in your city​

Fourth, he refers to specific issues the church in Pergamum was facing, including dealing with the "teachings of Balaam" (the same teachings about eating food sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality that Paul and the Jerusalem Council also dealt with) and the teachings of the Nicolaitans (who existed in the first century church):

2:14 But I have a few things against you: You have some people there who follow the teaching of Balaam,who instructed Balak to put a stumbling blockbefore the peopleof Israel so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality.2:15 In the same way, there are also some among you who follow the teaching of the Nicolaitans.​

You can do the same type of analysis with the other churches as well. It's fairly easy to see they were written to, for, and about 7 churches physically located in Asia Minor in the 1st century. This is just simple literary analysis identifying author and audience - it's not hard.

Having said this, John also seems to have intended for the churches to read each others letters as they are all contained within the same writing. He is also using the number 7 in a non-arbitrary way. There were other churches in existence in his day (eg, Antioch, Jerusalem, Rome, etc..); so he could have chosen another number. Therefore, the number 7 is being used symbolically to refer to the whole Church, which makes sense given that they were all dealing with roughly the same issues at the time and reading each other's letters.

In this way, we could infer that we also deal with much of the same issues that the early Church did. The 7 letters refer to "the Church" by John's use of specific churches and highlighting specific issues in key churches in Asia Minor in the 1st century. This doesn't mean that there is some sort of 1-to-1 correspondence between anyone (you can't say Protestantism = Pergamum or anything), but you can say that we sometimes/a lot of times deal with relatively similiar issues and can learn something from the instructions in the letters. This is probably why John wanted them to read each other's letters in the first place.

 

[watty]

You people have not realized that these instructions about the Antichrist is just deception. Let's say someone figures out exactly who the Antichrist is and his or her exact location. What would you do? I really want to know because so many people spend so much time on this subject. Like I have tried to explain in many of my posts the true way to understand the term Anti Christ is like this. If you are against Putin of Russia you can say you are Antiputin or you can say when it comes to Putin I am an Antichrist. Christ means king, ruler, president, CEO, messiah or anointed one.

 

[iamsoandso]

OK if we move on from which comes first the chicken or the egg,,,,,,,,and progress to "if the plagues of God are poured out on those who (have the mark),,,,which comes first the mark of the beast or the plagues"????

 

[The_highwayman]

Has anyone considered that the world has been destroyed many times and man has had to begin over and over again, like Noah. I believe we are in the end times. The end of the world as we know it. With all of the wars going on we may be back to living in caves if the wrong button is pushed (nuclear war). Just do what is right and live right.

Stop with the GAP theory already.....you are going into weirdness and not anything remotely Biblical.

 

[The_highwayman]

OK if we move on from which comes first the chicken or the egg,,,,,,,,and progress to "if the plagues of God are poured out on those who (have the mark),,,,which come first the mark of the beast or the plagues"????

Acutally the hen and the rooster came first, then the egg. You have to have a Rooster to form a little chick in an egg...

 

[The_highwayman]

You people have not realized that these instructions about the Antichrist is just deception. Let's say someone figures out exactly who the Antichrist is and his or her exact location. What would you do? I really want to know because so many people spend so much time on this subject. Like I have tried to explain in many of my posts the true way to understand the term Anti Christ is like this. If you are against Putin of Russia you can say you are Antiputin or you can say when it comes to Putin I am an Antichrist. Christ means king, ruler, president, CEO, messiah or anointed one.

Are you now saying the Bible is deception? Take a breath and get off the conspiracy theory websites...

 

[Stevenmd]

Ok bookends and deadtosin: You two are as ridiculous as president Clinton saying "that all depends on what the definition of is, is" as he rationalized his adultery with Monica.

Deadtosin, I love what your name implies; I don't sin any more or a least less and less as we grow in the Lord.

Bookends, your statement are you teachable; every time I heard that face to face the pastor was usurping the authority of God is our only teacher. More than this he was clueless of the teachings of righteousness. this makes me afraid for you.

perhaps this is what is meant by as iron sharpens iron, men sharpen men. But fact is I don't know either of you and only God and you knows what's in your hearts. I do know bible commands don't be deceived and there are a lot of deceived and deceivers on this sight.

consider this

Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

[SUP]13[/SUP] Now all has been heard; ​

here is the conclusion of the matter: ​

Fear God and keep his commandments, ​

for this is the whole duty of man. ​

[SUP]14[/SUP] For God will bring every deed into judgment, ​

including every hidden thing, ​

whether it is good or evil. ​

The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (electronic ed.) (Ec 12:12-14). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.

there is only one teacher: the Christ, the consoler, the Holly spirit; many names ONE GOD. but if you doubt what God teaches you learn nothing

wishing you booth well, Dave

 

[iamsoandso]

Acutally the hen and the rooster came first, then the egg. You have to have a Rooster to form a little chick in an egg...

lol,OK you win on the first part,,,,on the second part does God pour out his plagues on mankind BEFORE they receive the mark or AFTER?,,,

 

[The_highwayman]

lol,OK you win on the first part,,,,on the second part does God pour out his plagues on mankind BEFORE they receive the mark or AFTER?,,,

Well mankind receives the Mark in Rev 13 and if you follow the following chapters it has to be after, because the 7 angles with the 7 vials are in Chapters 15-16