totally great, then! and reading Torah is one way to receive instruction from God, I think...
What does the Law REALLY say?
- Thread starter KohenMatt
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cfultz3
Guest
YEAPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSS
As long as you know that salvation is through faith in Christ and not works....But, I think you know that already....So, sorry for the interuption
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YEAPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSS
As long as you know that salvation is through faith in Christ and not works....But, I think you know that already....So, sorry for the interuption
it's totally cool... and thank you for being concerned!
I have witnessed those who earnestly desire to please the Father in obeying Him as taught by Jesus Christ being called arrogant or as feeling superior by others who teach mercy has replaced the Father's commandments.
God will always be near the humble but from any who think themselves something they are not He will be distant.
Praise God, hear Him, and always strive to be in His will, amen.
God will always be near the humble but from any who think themselves something they are not He will be distant.
Praise God, hear Him, and always strive to be in His will, amen.
While out on an errand I realized one part of my earlier post may be misconstrued due to my own ambiguity, but I assure all, I believe the same as always. Of course the laws of punishment and death are replaced by mercy, but commandments on decent behavior and righteousness are not. I can see how my wording could have been misconstrued, but not by any who already are aware of my stance on obedience under grace.
People have often misunderstood what is meant by the term 'law' in the Bible. They sometimes think it means just the ten commandments or the first five books of the Bible attributed most closely with Moses. However, the entire Bible is inspired by God, and the entire word of God is what is meant by the term 'law' when the Bible uses it. That is why the blessed (saved) man in Psalm 1 meditates on the law day and night and why it is his delight. It is the entire word that he is allowed to meditate on, the law of God. Further, Psalm 119 uses the term 'law' interchangeably with words like precepts, word, statutes, testimonies, commandments. These are other terms used to describe the Bible as well.
Further, it is good to remember that the Bible is written in parable form (Palm 78:2, Mark 4) so that meanings are often in need of interpretation further than just the surface text.
Further, it is also good to remember what Hebrews 7:19 reminds us:For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a betterhopedid; by the which we draw nigh unto God. The better hope is Jesus. The Bible (law) makes nothing perfect by itself. Indeed, the Bible illustrates that humans just don't measure up to God's perfection as individuals. Thank God for Jesus who makes up the difference for us out of his great love. It is Jesus himself through whom we draw nigh unto God.
Further, it is good to remember that the Bible is written in parable form (Palm 78:2, Mark 4) so that meanings are often in need of interpretation further than just the surface text.
Further, it is also good to remember what Hebrews 7:19 reminds us:For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a betterhopedid; by the which we draw nigh unto God. The better hope is Jesus. The Bible (law) makes nothing perfect by itself. Indeed, the Bible illustrates that humans just don't measure up to God's perfection as individuals. Thank God for Jesus who makes up the difference for us out of his great love. It is Jesus himself through whom we draw nigh unto God.
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Revelator7
Guest
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Revelator7
Guest
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans 3:30
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. Romans 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. Romans 7:7
It seems the Children of Israel who did actually study "the Law" were aware of this you have posted. What many people either do not know or deliberately ignore is something very basic which deals directly with your grace-filled understanding, and that is that the word, torah, does not mean law, it means teaching, however due to centuries of rabbinical teachings from both Jews and Christians alike, most folks think laws only when they see or hear the word, Torah.
As you have so well stated, the law is the teachings of God. To say anything said by God is simply a suggestion is in considerable error.
So we, as children, hear our Father and obey His teachings. If we finish our education with the teachings of Jesus Christ, we come to understand how to obey living in grace by the Blood of the Lamb of God.
As you have so well stated, the law is the teachings of God. To say anything said by God is simply a suggestion is in considerable error.
So we, as children, hear our Father and obey His teachings. If we finish our education with the teachings of Jesus Christ, we come to understand how to obey living in grace by the Blood of the Lamb of God.
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BradC
Guest
There are two points concerning the law, one being our relationship to the law and the second is the relationship of the law to sinners saved by grace. Which point is Paul making when he says...'Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The laws relationship to us is not made void by our faith because the law does not change. If I covet, I have sinned and offended Christ and the Holy Spirit. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ, that justifies us, does not change the law but it is not the law that justifies us when we were sinners or when we sin. Rather, the sinner is justified by grace through faith in the blood of Christ. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ establishes and fulfills the law (which includes the 10 commandments) for the purpose of which the law was given, because of transgressions and to make sin exceedingly sinful, so that the whole world would be guilty and every mouth might be stopped of boasting of their own righteousness.
However, the law has been made void for the purpose of establishing righteousness through its deeds and made inoperative because Christ was judged, delivered up for our offenses and bore our sin being crucified on the cross. He put and took away all sin (including iniquity, transgressions and all trespasses), offering his own righteousness to the Father on our behalf and has also given the Holy Spirit unto those who believe in his blood sacrifice for the remission of sin. So our relationship to the law has changed and we are no longer under the law for righteousness but under grace, making the law inoperative and ineffective because we now have the Spirit of truth that has set us free making us new creatures in Christ and who convicts the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
When we walk and are led by the Spirit through faith we are not under the law (the whole law Gal 5:18) and we live by the grace and the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that has exceeded and excelled the law, making it obsolete and causing it vanish and to be done away (2 Cor 3:5-10). The reference made to the law is the whole law which includes the law of the (10) commandments. You can't separate the law of the (10) commandments from the whole law, James did not do that (James 2:10), so by what authority do some of you? Even Jesus said that the scriptures can not be broken (John 10:35). We do not do away with or break up the scriptures by not being under the law, but we establish the law by being under grace without the deeds of the law. Our faith in the finished work of Christ and in his righteousness establishes the law because our faith works by love which fulfills the law. If we walk in the Spirit and are led by the Spirit we are filled with the love of God and thereby fulfill the law (Gal 5:13-26). Got to think about that one!
The laws relationship to us is not made void by our faith because the law does not change. If I covet, I have sinned and offended Christ and the Holy Spirit. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ, that justifies us, does not change the law but it is not the law that justifies us when we were sinners or when we sin. Rather, the sinner is justified by grace through faith in the blood of Christ. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ establishes and fulfills the law (which includes the 10 commandments) for the purpose of which the law was given, because of transgressions and to make sin exceedingly sinful, so that the whole world would be guilty and every mouth might be stopped of boasting of their own righteousness.
However, the law has been made void for the purpose of establishing righteousness through its deeds and made inoperative because Christ was judged, delivered up for our offenses and bore our sin being crucified on the cross. He put and took away all sin (including iniquity, transgressions and all trespasses), offering his own righteousness to the Father on our behalf and has also given the Holy Spirit unto those who believe in his blood sacrifice for the remission of sin. So our relationship to the law has changed and we are no longer under the law for righteousness but under grace, making the law inoperative and ineffective because we now have the Spirit of truth that has set us free making us new creatures in Christ and who convicts the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
When we walk and are led by the Spirit through faith we are not under the law (the whole law Gal 5:18) and we live by the grace and the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that has exceeded and excelled the law, making it obsolete and causing it vanish and to be done away (2 Cor 3:5-10). The reference made to the law is the whole law which includes the law of the (10) commandments. You can't separate the law of the (10) commandments from the whole law, James did not do that (James 2:10), so by what authority do some of you? Even Jesus said that the scriptures can not be broken (John 10:35). We do not do away with or break up the scriptures by not being under the law, but we establish the law by being under grace without the deeds of the law. Our faith in the finished work of Christ and in his righteousness establishes the law because our faith works by love which fulfills the law. If we walk in the Spirit and are led by the Spirit we are filled with the love of God and thereby fulfill the law (Gal 5:13-26). Got to think about that one!
Kerry has a habit of throwing out the "You can't be saved through the Law" question/accusation, and then never saying addressing it again when someone calls him on it.
Dialoging with many folks in the Forum is reminiscent of when the blind man was healed, and the Pharisees asked him the same questionf again and again. Many times I feel like the blind man, in more ways than one.
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BradC
Guest
Some people can not grasp with understanding the truth that is set before them because they have a partial vail over their heart when the OT is read.
There are those that refuse what the following passage says and by doing so they reject the revelation of the Spirit and that is not being led or walking in the Spirit of truth when they do this.
2 Cor 3:11-18
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
There are those that refuse what the following passage says and by doing so they reject the revelation of the Spirit and that is not being led or walking in the Spirit of truth when they do this.
2 Cor 3:11-18
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
And then there are some that refuse this statement by our Savior
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
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BradC
Guest
Torah is the teaching and instructions of the written law (and some oral) that is contained in the first five books of the OT scribed by Moses for the people that were delivered from Egypt and the generations that would follow in the promised land. Does anyone have a problem with this simple understanding of the Torah and its application?
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cfultz3
Guest
I do....it is lumping God's Law in with the Law of sin and death. Paul delighted in God's Law and agreed with God that He wrote it upon our hearts.
AGRICULTURE Final Part
220 Leviticus 25:4 - Not to cultivate the soil in the 7th year, shemittah.
But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
221 Leviticus 25:4 - Not to prune the trees in the 7th year.
But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
222 Leviticus 25:5 - Reap not self-grown plant in 7th year as ordinary year.
That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
223 Leviticus 25:5 - Gather not self-grown fruit in 7th year as ordinary year.
That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
224 Leviticus 25:11 - Not to till the earth or prune trees in Jubilee year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
225 Leviticus 25:11 - Reap not after-growths of Jubilee year as ordinary year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
226 Leviticus 25:11 - Not to gather fruit in Jubilee year as in ordinary year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
227 Leviticus 25:23 - Sell not one's Eretz Yisrael land holdings permanently.
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
228 Leviticus 25:33 - Not to sell / change the open lands of the Levites.
And if a man purchase of the Levites, then the house that was sold, and the city of his possession, shall go out in the year of jubile: for the houses of the cities of the Levites are their possession among the children of Israel.
229 Deuteronomy 12:19 - Not to leave the Levites without support.
Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
220 Leviticus 25:4 - Not to cultivate the soil in the 7th year, shemittah.
But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
221 Leviticus 25:4 - Not to prune the trees in the 7th year.
But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
222 Leviticus 25:5 - Reap not self-grown plant in 7th year as ordinary year.
That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
223 Leviticus 25:5 - Gather not self-grown fruit in 7th year as ordinary year.
That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
224 Leviticus 25:11 - Not to till the earth or prune trees in Jubilee year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
225 Leviticus 25:11 - Reap not after-growths of Jubilee year as ordinary year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
226 Leviticus 25:11 - Not to gather fruit in Jubilee year as in ordinary year.
A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
227 Leviticus 25:23 - Sell not one's Eretz Yisrael land holdings permanently.
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
228 Leviticus 25:33 - Not to sell / change the open lands of the Levites.
And if a man purchase of the Levites, then the house that was sold, and the city of his possession, shall go out in the year of jubile: for the houses of the cities of the Levites are their possession among the children of Israel.
229 Deuteronomy 12:19 - Not to leave the Levites without support.
Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.