It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Again, after rabbit paths, let us keep in mind the plain statements of the Lord on eternal security:

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

The Proof is certain.

Christ is the Savior, no mere chance giver:

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee

newbirth · Sep 17, 2014

Atwood said:

It does not matter how you reorder the verses what size the letters are or how many times you post it...Our saviour still saves us by grace through faith and faith without works is dead....
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

The Child of God ABIDES forever: Forever Security

Eternal Security:
μενω menō = abide/remain/stay

John 8

And
the bondservant does not abide [menō] in the house forever:
the son abides [menō] forever.
If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

(Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.)

1 John 2
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained [menō] with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

John 15
Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide [menō].

1 John 3
Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides [menō]
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest.

[The new birth brings a new nature which cannot sin, for it is begotten of God.]

1 Peter 1
having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and abides [menō].

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fades not away,
reserved in heaven for you, 5 who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

Alligator · Sep 17, 2014

Alligator said:

Atwood said:

Caught you in another falsehood Atwood. I did look it up, there it is, under "definitions " SEVERED".why do you continue to manipulate God's word.

Original Word Word Origin
katargeo from (2596) and (691)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Katargeo 1:452,76
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kat-arg-eh'-o Verb
Definition
to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to deprive of force, influence, power
to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
to cease, to pass away, be done away
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
to terminate all intercourse with one

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Alligator said:

I manipulate not. The word does not mean sever in the sense of cutting off one object from another to which it was attached. And you must distinguish between the basic denotation of a word and idiomatic translations chosen to fit a context which translations depart from the literal. If you are honest, you will agree that you cannot prove "sever" as the denotation of katargeo for Galatians 5. The best you can do is claim it is a possibility as an idiomatic contextual rendering, though I don't accept "possibility."

kat(a) = throughly
a = not
erg = work

I don't know what source you are using. You do find karargeo on p. 452 of the first volume of TNDT, but TDNT does NOT GIVE SEVER as a meaning.

Katargeo simply does not mean "sever." And it is not passive in its dictionary form entry -- so I don't know how it would be listed with the meaning of "severed." What in fact are you quoting, a list of ways it has been translated? It has been translated with "sever," that that is a wrong translation. Or correct me by quoting any passage where it clearly means to cut some object off of another.

I own TDNT (Theological Dictionary of the NT), which combines dictionary with speculative, personal theology.
Here is the full entry which does NOT HAVE SEVER in it!

QUOTE:

καταργέω.

Trans. in the sense of “to render inactive;” “to condemn to inactivity” (χέρα, Eur. Phoen., 753), “to put out of use” (Corp. Herm., XIII, 7: κατάργησον τοῦ σώματος τὰς αἰσθήσεις). In the LXX it occurs only at 2 Εσδρ. (4 times) with the meaning “to destroy.”

In the NT it is used with the secular meanings a. “to condemn to inactivity” (Lk. 13:7); b. “to destroy” (1 C. 13:11); and c. “to remove from the sphere of activity” (R. 7:2). καταργέω.61

In the religious sense, which is almost exclusive to Paul, it means 1. “to make completely inoperative” or “to put out of use.” As applied to God and Christ (a.), it signifies a religious benefit or liberation; as applied to men (b.) it denotes offence against a religious order or ordinance.

a. Since the world view of Paul recognises several real destructive elements, it is radically refashioned by the new religion, so that the concept of καταργεῖν in the objective sense plays no inconsiderable role in the totality of the cosmic and extra-cosmic development theologically interpreted by him.

[Atwood: See what I mean by speculative, personal theology? A lot of opinion is given in TDNT by German theologians, translated into English, which opinion is also wrong.]

The remarkable observation of Paul in relation to the Corinthian church, i.e., that it is not composed of those who are noteworthy in the eyes of the world, leads him to the judgment that God’s purpose is obviously to “render insignificant,” “to set aside,” “that which is,” i.e., the values which count for the psychic (1 C. 1:28), in order that those who think that they count for something and make themselves out to be important should be deprived of their significance in His judgment. Thus the way of the Greeks to God, their “wisdom,” is made totally inoperative by God, as is also the νόμος τῶν ἐντολῶν (Eph. 2:15). And it is stated expressly that a new valuation has been set up by the work of Christ. Christ Himself by His physical death has set aside the Jewish and OT Law with its detailed provisions and the expository pronouncements of the Rabbis. The way to God has thus been opened up for the Gentiles. To be sure, Paul does not wish to invalidate the Law as an ethical demand (cf. R. 2:14, or as given to the Jew) with his preaching of faith (R. 3:31). The point is that it cannot advance any claim which would make of none effect the promise of the righteousness of faith given to Abraham (Gl. 3:17). Behind all this there stand for Paul very real powers which control this aeon, the ἀρχαί, ἐξουσίαι, δυνάμεις. Yet these, too, are robbed of their power for the Christian; they have no more power over him(1 C. 2:6). Using καταργεῖν, Paul says this expressly even of death, which is a curse resting on the physical and intellectual and moral life of the natural, i.e., the carnal or psychic man (2 Tm. 1:10). The Epistle to the Hebrews fills out this declaration by stating that through the death of Christ even the one who has power over death, the διάβολος (2:14), is condemned to inactivity or ineffectiveness in relation to the Christian

In individual terms, these Pauline statements concerning the new estimation of the existing world order apply with even greater precision to the carnal man. The crucifixion of this man with Christ implies that he is released from his bondage to sin, or more exactly – and here we see clearly the strong tension which can also be for Paul the tension between σῶμα and πνεῦμα – that the body of sin, the form of man’s appearance in subjection to sin, is robbed of its power to affect the religious and moral attitude and development of man (R. 6:6). For the moment this liberation according to the will of God is not definitive; the religious life of the Christian still assumes forms which will be ended, such as the prophetic utterances of the pneuma and indeed the gnosis which is highly estimated by Paul (only ἀγάπη will remain, 1 C. 13:8). For by these it is inevitable that only portions of the divine reality may be apprehended. With the fulfilment, this partial work loses its point (v. 10).

b. Subjectively, ie., for himself and his sphere of activity – for Paul expressly denies the possibility of any objective operation of such disobedient καταργεῖν – man can render these divine acts of liberation ineffective by his disobedience to the resultant demands of faith, e.g., by maintaining that the fulfilment of the Law according to a Judaistic understanding is necessary for heirs of the βασιλεία (R. 4:14), for instance, in such matters as circumcision (Gl. 5:11). The scandal of the cross is thus robbed of its effect, i.e., the offence which the Jew takes at justification, not by works, but by the cross of Christ.

2. The provisional disarming of demonic powers and the carnal man will obviously end with their complete destruction at the parousia (1 C. 15:24, 26; 2 Th. 2:8; 1 C. 6:13)

3. The deliberative use of the term, “to take from the sphere of operation,” is found with the two references treated under la.: ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου (R. 7:6) and ἀπὸ Χριστοῦ (Gl. 5:4).

4. The use in 2 C. 3 causes difficulties. In v. 7 and v. 13 we seem to have unequivocal examples of 2. The external glow on the face of Moses, caused by the mediation of the Law, was transitory (pres. part. pass. as adj., formally as in v. 11). Again v. 14 may belong to 2. if we are to fill out the subj. of καταργεῖται to τὸ κάλυμμα (which conceals the passing nature of the δόξα of the service of the Law). Thus the deceptive appearance that the δόξα of the service of the Law still remains is destroyed in Christ. On the other hand, we get a clearer sense if we take παλαιὰ διαθήκη as the subject here. This is invalidated or devalued in Christ, i.e., by the given fact of Christ. In this case the καταργούμενον of v. 11 refers to the service of the Law as well. This was subjected to later devaluation; it was deprived of its original value (→ supra 1.). It thus has only a borrowed δόξα and not one of its own, not even as the gift of faith. We see, therefore, that καταργεῖν often means “to put out of action” or “to deprive of power” in cases where there has been relative value and validity in the pre-Christian period. It is from the vacillation between the meanings 2. (v. 7, 13) and 1a. (v. 11, 14) that the train of thought in 2 C. 3:7–14 derives its cogency.

UNQUOTE (color added by Atwood)

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Ho Hum, the Rabbit paths unbelievers take to keep themselves from being saved!

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Eternal Security:
μενω menō = abide/remain/stay

John 8

And
the bondservant does not abide [menō] in the house forever:
the son abides [menō] forever.
If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

(Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.)

1 John 2
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained [menō] with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

John 15
Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide [menō].

1 John 3
Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides [menō]
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest.

[The new birth brings a new nature which cannot sin, for it is begotten of God.]

1 Peter 1
having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and abides [menō].

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fades not away,
reserved in heaven for you, 5 who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

Alligator · Sep 17, 2014

Atwood said:

I manipulate not. The word does not mean sever in the sense of cutting off one object from another to which it was attached. And you must distinguish between the basic denotation of a word and idiomatic translations chosen to fit a context which translations depart from the literal. If you are honest, you will agree that you cannot prove "sever" as the denotation of katargeo for Galatians 5. The best you can do is claim it is a possibility as an idiomatic contextual rendering, though I don't accept "possibility."

kat(a) = throughly
a = not
erg = work

I don't know what source you are using. You do find karargeo on p. 452 of the first volume of TNDT, but TDNT does NOT GIVE SEVER as a meaning.

Katargeo simply does not mean "sever." And it is not passive in its dictionary form entry -- so I don't know how it would be listed with the meaning of "severed." What in fact are you quoting, a list of ways it has been translated? It has been translated with "sever," that that is a wrong translation. Or correct me by quoting any passage where it clearly means to cut some object off of another.

I own TDNT (Theological Dictionary of the NT), which combines dictionary with speculative, personal theology.
Here is the full entry which does NOT HAVE SEVER in it!

QUOTE:

καταργέω.

Trans. in the sense of “to render inactive;” “to condemn to inactivity” (χέρα, Eur. Phoen., 753), “to put out of use” (Corp. Herm., XIII, 7: κατάργησον τοῦ σώματος τὰς αἰσθήσεις). In the LXX it occurs only at 2 Εσδρ. (4 times) with the meaning “to destroy.”

In the NT it is used with the secular meanings a. “to condemn to inactivity” (Lk. 13:7); b. “to destroy” (1 C. 13:11); and c. “to remove from the sphere of activity” (R. 7:2). καταργέω.61

In the religious sense, which is almost exclusive to Paul, it means 1. “to make completely inoperative” or “to put out of use.” As applied to God and Christ (a.), it signifies a religious benefit or liberation; as applied to men (b.) it denotes offence against a religious order or ordinance.

a. Since the world view of Paul recognises several real destructive elements, it is radically refashioned by the new religion, so that the concept of καταργεῖν in the objective sense plays no inconsiderable role in the totality of the cosmic and extra-cosmic development theologically interpreted by him.

[Atwood: See what I mean by speculative, personal theology? A lot of opinion is given in TDNT by German theologians, translated into English, which opinion is also wrong.]

The remarkable observation of Paul in relation to the Corinthian church, i.e., that it is not composed of those who are noteworthy in the eyes of the world, leads him to the judgment that God’s purpose is obviously to “render insignificant,” “to set aside,” “that which is,” i.e., the values which count for the psychic (1 C. 1:28), in order that those who think that they count for something and make themselves out to be important should be deprived of their significance in His judgment. Thus the way of the Greeks to God, their “wisdom,” is made totally inoperative by God, as is also the νόμος τῶν ἐντολῶν (Eph. 2:15). And it is stated expressly that a new valuation has been set up by the work of Christ. Christ Himself by His physical death has set aside the Jewish and OT Law with its detailed provisions and the expository pronouncements of the Rabbis. The way to God has thus been opened up for the Gentiles. To be sure, Paul does not wish to invalidate the Law as an ethical demand (cf. R. 2:14, or as given to the Jew) with his preaching of faith (R. 3:31). The point is that it cannot advance any claim which would make of none effect the promise of the righteousness of faith given to Abraham (Gl. 3:17). Behind all this there stand for Paul very real powers which control this aeon, the ἀρχαί, ἐξουσίαι, δυνάμεις. Yet these, too, are robbed of their power for the Christian; they have no more power over him(1 C. 2:6). Using καταργεῖν, Paul says this expressly even of death, which is a curse resting on the physical and intellectual and moral life of the natural, i.e., the carnal or psychic man (2 Tm. 1:10). The Epistle to the Hebrews fills out this declaration by stating that through the death of Christ even the one who has power over death, the διάβολος (2:14), is condemned to inactivity or ineffectiveness in relation to the Christian

In individual terms, these Pauline statements concerning the new estimation of the existing world order apply with even greater precision to the carnal man. The crucifixion of this man with Christ implies that he is released from his bondage to sin, or more exactly – and here we see clearly the strong tension which can also be for Paul the tension between σῶμα and πνεῦμα – that the body of sin, the form of man’s appearance in subjection to sin, is robbed of its power to affect the religious and moral attitude and development of man (R. 6:6). For the moment this liberation according to the will of God is not definitive; the religious life of the Christian still assumes forms which will be ended, such as the prophetic utterances of the pneuma and indeed the gnosis which is highly estimated by Paul (only ἀγάπη will remain, 1 C. 13:8). For by these it is inevitable that only portions of the divine reality may be apprehended. With the fulfilment, this partial work loses its point (v. 10).

b. Subjectively, ie., for himself and his sphere of activity – for Paul expressly denies the possibility of any objective operation of such disobedient καταργεῖν – man can render these divine acts of liberation ineffective by his disobedience to the resultant demands of faith, e.g., by maintaining that the fulfilment of the Law according to a Judaistic understanding is necessary for heirs of the βασιλεία (R. 4:14), for instance, in such matters as circumcision (Gl. 5:11). The scandal of the cross is thus robbed of its effect, i.e., the offence which the Jew takes at justification, not by works, but by the cross of Christ.

2. The provisional disarming of demonic powers and the carnal man will obviously end with their complete destruction at the parousia (1 C. 15:24, 26; 2 Th. 2:8; 1 C. 6:13)

3. The deliberative use of the term, “to take from the sphere of operation,” is found with the two references treated under la.: ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου (R. 7:6) and ἀπὸ Χριστοῦ (Gl. 5:4).

4. The use in 2 C. 3 causes difficulties. In v. 7 and v. 13 we seem to have unequivocal examples of 2. The external glow on the face of Moses, caused by the mediation of the Law, was transitory (pres. part. pass. as adj., formally as in v. 11). Again v. 14 may belong to 2. if we are to fill out the subj. of καταργεῖται to τὸ κάλυμμα (which conceals the passing nature of the δόξα of the service of the Law). Thus the deceptive appearance that the δόξα of the service of the Law still remains is destroyed in Christ. On the other hand, we get a clearer sense if we take παλαιὰ διαθήκη as the subject here. This is invalidated or devalued in Christ, i.e., by the given fact of Christ. In this case the καταργούμενον of v. 11 refers to the service of the Law as well. This was subjected to later devaluation; it was deprived of its original value (→ supra 1.). It thus has only a borrowed δόξα and not one of its own, not even as the gift of faith. We see, therefore, that καταργεῖν often means “to put out of action” or “to deprive of power” in cases where there has been relative value and validity in the pre-Christian period. It is from the vacillation between the meanings 2. (v. 7, 13) and 1a. (v. 11, 14) that the train of thought in 2 C. 3:7–14 derives its cogency.

UNQUOTE (color added by Atwood)

Total nonsense from you, as usual. It sounds you're more interested In impressing somebody than getting at the truth. TRUST ME, YOU ARE NOT IMPRESSING ME. Do YOU REALLY THINK IM GOING TO BELIEVE YOU OVER THE RESEARCH OF SCHOLARS.?

But you know, it really wouldn't matter how many scriptures I could use to prove OSAS wrong, you would still try to manipulate yourself out of it.

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Alligator said:

Indeed the humble believer who believes God's Word knows more than 1000 proud scholars. But I have 5 graduate degrees, Alligator. You gave a quote that had TDNT in it. So I had to check it out. You don't appreciate my posting it in full for you? TDNT does not give "sever" as a meaning.

But by now, if you are honest you will at least admit:

1) the primary denotation of katargeo is not "sever."
2) "Sever" is not a necessary translation in Gal 4.

The doctrine for this thread is OSS = once, saved saved or eternal security.

There are no passages to disprove this, as it is the plain truth. Look at the passages which actually speak about salvation. There is this Savior Who loved you & died for you, who poured out His blood for you to pay for your sins. Now man's role is to cry out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," and to depend upon Him for a new birth & eternal life.

What do you have to gain by all your effort to prevent your own salvation?

After repenting of dismissing the Lord Jesus as mere chance-giver, and actually trusting Him to save you, then you can sing:

Trust in the Lord, O troubled soul,
Rest in the arms of His care.
He hath redeemed & He will keep;
Trust Him & be not afraid.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

Alligator · Sep 17, 2014

Atwood said:

Indeed the humble believer who believes God's Word knows more than 1000 proud scholars. But I have 5 graduate degrees, Alligator. You gave a quote that had TDNT in it. So I had to check it out. You don't appreciate my posting it in full for you? TDNT does not give "sever" as a meaning.

But by now, if you are honest you will at least admit:

1) the primary denotation of katargeo is not "sever."
2) "Sever" is not a necessary translation in Gal 4.

The doctrine for this thread is OSS = once, saved saved or eternal security.

There are no passages to disprove this, as it is the plain truth. Look at the passages which actually speak about salvation. There is this Savior Who loved you & died for you, who poured out His blood for you to pay for your sins. Now man's role is to cry out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," and to depend upon Him for a new birth & eternal life.

What do you have to gain by all your effort to prevent your own salvation?

After repenting of dismissing the Lord Jesus as mere chance-giver, and actually trusting Him to save you, then you can sing:

Trust in the Lord, O troubled soul,
Rest in the arms of His care.
He hath redeemed & He will keep;
Trust Him & be not afraid.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

I could care less how many degrees you have .
No i do not agree on points 1 and 2.

The doctrine is whatever I choose to call it. And I prefer the original OSAS.

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Having disposed of the most recent canard, let us give attention to the subject at foot -- I mean, at hand!

YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ,who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Eternal Security:
μενω menō = abide/remain/stay

John 8

And
the bondservant does not abide [menō] in the house forever:
the son abides [menō] forever.
If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

(Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.)

1 John 2
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained [menō] with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

John 15
Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit shouldabide [menō].

1 John 3
Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides [menō]
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest.

[The new birth brings a new nature which cannot sin, for it is begotten of God.]

1 Peter 1
having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives andabides [menō].

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fades not away,
reserved in heaven for you, 5 who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Hoffco · Sep 22, 2014

To Atwood, you are doing the same as always, so BULLHEADLY defending a TRUTH, that you Fail to see the opposing, balanceing TRUTH of the BIBLE. Your post is true, the problem is that you have turned the GRACE of GOD into licence to sin ,and still think they are saved. There are always Judas' people around. They outwardly look saved but do not have a true heart for God. and are SEVERED from what grace they have. The last point of the FIVE points of CAlvinism, should be, The perseverance of the saints in holiness of life . Love to all, Hoffco

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2014

Alligator said:

Should that not tell you something about him, him and his 5 graduate decrees? That along will have people not listening to him. It would be better to just let him talk at people. My mother does that all the time. Sometimes I have to raise my voice just to ask her were I am driving her

Atwood · Sep 22, 2014

Hoffco said:

Hoffco, let me remind you of scripture:
1) Thou shalt not bear false witess, &
2) Liars go to the Lake of Fire.
Moreover, it is satanic to be an accuser of the brethren.

platitude and irrelevant, Hoffco.

How could someone 1) have grace & 2) be severed from grace?

That is just you, Hoffco, no scripture.

And let me remind you of Hezekiah 5:12:
"Thou shalt not fire canon balls at canary birds."

Atwood · Sep 22, 2014

cfultz3 said:

That is the process I expect.
1) attack my education as deficient,
2) I post my education,
3) criticize me for posting my education.

Give me a break.

Honor your father & mother.

Mark 15:4 4 For God said, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, He that speaketh evil of father or mother, let him die the death.

Atwood · Sep 22, 2014

Having disposed of the latest ad hominems, let us address the issue at hand:
The postposterous, the preposterous idea that he who is saved is in fact saved, OSS, once saved . . . saved! Eternal Security. The evidence is overwhelming & such a blessing to the sinner who comes to the Lord for salvation.

Jesus, what a help for sinners,
Jesus, lover of my soul,
Tempted tried, & sometimes failing,
He my Savior keeps me whole.

Hallelujah what a Savior,
Hallelujah what a Lord,
Saving, Keeping, Helping, Loving,
He will keep me unto the end.

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And
who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,

looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,

Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2014

Atwood said:

That is the process I expect.
1) attack my education as deficient,
2) I post my education,
3) criticize me for posting my education.

Give me a break.

Honor your father & mother.

Mark 15:4 4 For God said, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, He that speaketh evil of father or mother, let him die the death.

Yes daddy

Atwood · Sep 22, 2014

ETERNAL SECURITY; ONCE SAVED, SAVED!

What then shall we say to these things?
If God is for us, who is against us?
He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him
freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?
It is God who justifies; who is he who condemns?

It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? . . . .
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,

nor things present, nor things to come,

nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto
an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you, who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Kerry · Sep 22, 2014

HMM, why did God call Jacob Israel and then Jacob and then Israel. Then He is called the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
Why not Israel?

Kerry · Sep 22, 2014

Re: ETERNAL SECURITY; ONCE SAVED, SAVED!

I meant Abram became Abraham and was never again called Abram, so why the flip flop with Jacob?

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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