We establish the Law...but how?
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Well, here's hoping that Paul was eventually born again, at the time he wrote this (twenty some years AFTER his conversion) he did not...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Oh, so if we don't keep the Law what do we do? Break it with alacrity?
By the way, I haven't killed anyone today, I haven't even wished they were dead. Neither have I lied today, I have told the truth. I haven't committed adultery today neither have I stolen anything.
Hmmm, I have been keeping the Law. I may not do it perfectly all day and may need to go to the High Priest for forgiveness, but interestingly enough, I have kept the Law today.
By the way, I haven't killed anyone today, I haven't even wished they were dead. Neither have I lied today, I have told the truth. I haven't committed adultery today neither have I stolen anything.
Hmmm, I have been keeping the Law. I may not do it perfectly all day and may need to go to the High Priest for forgiveness, but interestingly enough, I have kept the Law today.
J
Something I've always noticed about the most faithful Bible teachers is how Jesus Christ is very much at the center of their teachings, not psychobabble, not prosperity gospel, not carnal pursuits and the temporal, not philosophy and rhetorical blather, rather scripture and the Lord Jesus, holiness, the Holy Spirit, love and things eternal, and all these things of Jesus Christ. This is where the Holy Spirit leads us.
The NIV is a biased translation translated in accordance with the doctrine of Original Sin.
The NIV Committee on Bible Translation were predominantly Calvinists.
NIV Translators and Editors
Thus the NIV is full of interpretive bias in accordance with Calvinistic doctrine.
A good example is with the translation of the Greek word "sarx" which simply means "flesh." Yet the NIV Committee rendered it as "sinful nature" in a few places in order to create proof texts for their doctrine. The translators manipulated the data to fit their preconceived notions.
Psalm 51:5 says this...
(KJV) Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
The context is David speaking of being born and raised in a world full of sin. Of course if one insists on using the NIV they can claim that David is teaching that he was born a sinner, yet why didn't the Jews teach that? Why didn't the early church teach that? Why is it that Original Sin was only accepted as orthodox in the fourth century due to the influence of Augustine? Do people ever consider that?
Now go take a look at all the different translations at the following link and go look up where each one comes from...
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2051:5
You'll see that all NIV like translations all have a common source within the framework of a common theological paradigm.
New International Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is all very interesting to dig into.
Yet it is not really necessary because God gave us human reason and the words of Jesus. We don't need theological degrees or be verses in the history of literature to understand these things. All we need is an honest heart.
Jesus did not teach inability. Jesus did not teach birth depravity. Jesus taught that sin was rooted in a defiled heart and compelled people to cleanse their hearts. If human beings were born naturally depraved and were disabled from being able to obey God then Jesus would not have taught the things He taught.
Jesus gave us an example to follow and commanded us to follow it. Jesus never implied that people couldn't in the context of human inability. He implied people wouldn't because they would refuse to repent and forsake their evil and thus would remain blind to the truth.
Think about it.
Jesus did teach about heart purity in Matthew 5. He plainly stated that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Jesus said that. Jesus then went on to teach that just because one does not outwardly commit adultery or murder that it does not necessarily mean they are righteous, He taught that if we lust in our heart or hate our brother then we have committed adultery and murder in the heart.
Jesus stated that our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees in this context. At the end of that chapter He urges people to be perfect as God is perfect and the meaning of that word in the Greek related to "moral perfection." Moral perfection is the result of a pure or clean heart.
In Matthew 5 Jesus spoke of cutting off the offending hand or plucking out the offending eye as an illustration of taking sin seriously by cutting off that which leads us into sin (very similar to Paul's notion of crucifying the flesh).
How is it then that a theology can teach the opposite of what Jesus taught and be the truth? How can that be?
How is it that one can claim to believe in Jesus and claim to be a child of God and yet claim that they are inwardly wicked and cannot obey God? To do that is to deny what Jesus taught.
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
It is through faith that our minds eye may be single, whereby our whole body shall be full of light. Light that we can let shine atop a hill for all the world to see as we walk blameless and righteous in a crooked and perverse generation.
It is in deception that one can have a light in them which is actually darkness and that kind of darkness is great indeed. False religion is rooted in light which is actually darkness and we must all be very diligent in seeking God with an honest heart in order to avoid the deceptions of this world.
Seriously take pause and really think about it.
The NIV Committee on Bible Translation were predominantly Calvinists.
NIV Translators and Editors
Thus the NIV is full of interpretive bias in accordance with Calvinistic doctrine.
A good example is with the translation of the Greek word "sarx" which simply means "flesh." Yet the NIV Committee rendered it as "sinful nature" in a few places in order to create proof texts for their doctrine. The translators manipulated the data to fit their preconceived notions.
Psalm 51:5 says this...
(KJV) Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
The context is David speaking of being born and raised in a world full of sin. Of course if one insists on using the NIV they can claim that David is teaching that he was born a sinner, yet why didn't the Jews teach that? Why didn't the early church teach that? Why is it that Original Sin was only accepted as orthodox in the fourth century due to the influence of Augustine? Do people ever consider that?
Now go take a look at all the different translations at the following link and go look up where each one comes from...
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2051:5
You'll see that all NIV like translations all have a common source within the framework of a common theological paradigm.
New International Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is all very interesting to dig into.
Yet it is not really necessary because God gave us human reason and the words of Jesus. We don't need theological degrees or be verses in the history of literature to understand these things. All we need is an honest heart.
Jesus did not teach inability. Jesus did not teach birth depravity. Jesus taught that sin was rooted in a defiled heart and compelled people to cleanse their hearts. If human beings were born naturally depraved and were disabled from being able to obey God then Jesus would not have taught the things He taught.
Jesus gave us an example to follow and commanded us to follow it. Jesus never implied that people couldn't in the context of human inability. He implied people wouldn't because they would refuse to repent and forsake their evil and thus would remain blind to the truth.
Think about it.
Jesus did teach about heart purity in Matthew 5. He plainly stated that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Jesus said that. Jesus then went on to teach that just because one does not outwardly commit adultery or murder that it does not necessarily mean they are righteous, He taught that if we lust in our heart or hate our brother then we have committed adultery and murder in the heart.
Jesus stated that our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees in this context. At the end of that chapter He urges people to be perfect as God is perfect and the meaning of that word in the Greek related to "moral perfection." Moral perfection is the result of a pure or clean heart.
In Matthew 5 Jesus spoke of cutting off the offending hand or plucking out the offending eye as an illustration of taking sin seriously by cutting off that which leads us into sin (very similar to Paul's notion of crucifying the flesh).
How is it then that a theology can teach the opposite of what Jesus taught and be the truth? How can that be?
How is it that one can claim to believe in Jesus and claim to be a child of God and yet claim that they are inwardly wicked and cannot obey God? To do that is to deny what Jesus taught.
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
It is through faith that our minds eye may be single, whereby our whole body shall be full of light. Light that we can let shine atop a hill for all the world to see as we walk blameless and righteous in a crooked and perverse generation.
It is in deception that one can have a light in them which is actually darkness and that kind of darkness is great indeed. False religion is rooted in light which is actually darkness and we must all be very diligent in seeking God with an honest heart in order to avoid the deceptions of this world.
Seriously take pause and really think about it.
J
Something interesting that comes to me is how I've never seen any of this errant legalism going around here taught in any Bible believing, Protestant church, this in my entire life. Just the stupidity some subset of the law will provide merit is so self righteous and Pharisaical, a refutation of clear New Testament Christianity, but something that seems to be concentrated on the web, as if by some sort of concentrated, web trolling effort.
O
MATTHEW 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
my brothers and sisters,
the grace-law-debate really just gets down to that
'we are saved by grace, rewarded according to our works and the keeping of God's Commandments
is our proof that we love Him.
GB
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
my brothers and sisters,
the grace-law-debate really just gets down to that
'we are saved by grace, rewarded according to our works and the keeping of God's Commandments
is our proof that we love Him.
GB
God does not require perfect righteousness. God requires perfect faith and God reckons perfect faith as righteousness.
You do not understand God's grace and mercy at all to make statements like that. You have replaced genuine faith with "trust in a substititonal provision." Thus you have rejected the purging of sin and exchanged it for a sin cloak.
The Bible teaches that a righteousness man falls seven times yet gets backs up. It doesn't say the wretched sinner falls seven times.
Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
The righteous WALK according to the counsel of God by a faith that works by love and God looks at the heart by which he declares one righteous. Sure we all make mistakes and misjudgments for which God brings correction that we may grow. Yet those mistakes and misjudgments are not the service of sin done out of a heart rooted in iniquity, no, our hearts ought be clean and this cleanliness will always be manifested by our walk.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
You do not understand God's grace and mercy at all to make statements like that. You have replaced genuine faith with "trust in a substititonal provision." Thus you have rejected the purging of sin and exchanged it for a sin cloak.
The Bible teaches that a righteousness man falls seven times yet gets backs up. It doesn't say the wretched sinner falls seven times.
Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
The righteous WALK according to the counsel of God by a faith that works by love and God looks at the heart by which he declares one righteous. Sure we all make mistakes and misjudgments for which God brings correction that we may grow. Yet those mistakes and misjudgments are not the service of sin done out of a heart rooted in iniquity, no, our hearts ought be clean and this cleanliness will always be manifested by our walk.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
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