Should We Still Keep the Feasts

[crossnote]

What? That is foolishness!! Note that King James Version and a few others chose to translate ekkesia as church, so as to build on a man-made doctrine, ie the The Roman Catholic Church, ie the Universal Church, a different religion than the one Jesus and the apostles delivered. Jesus did not come to start a new religion called Christianity. Another lie propagated by the Mother of the Harlots of Babylonian religions with her daughters (ie Protestant and Reformation Churches who went along with and carried forward the changing of the times and laws (Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. )

Matthew 16:18



(ABP+) And IG2504 G1161 say unto you,G1473 G3004 thatG3754 youG1473 areG1510.2.2 Peter,G* andG2532 uponG1909 this,G3778 theG3588 rock,G4073 I will buildG3618 myG1473 G3588 assembly,G1577 andG2532 the gatesG4439 of HadesG86 shall notG3756 prevail againstG2729 it.G1473

(Bishops) And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I wyll buylde my congregation: And the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it.

(CJB) I also tell you this: you are Kefa," [which means 'Rock,'] "and on this rock I will build my Community, and the gates of Sh'ol will not overcome it.

(CLV) Now I, also, am saying to you that you are Peter, and on this rock will I be building My ecclesia, and the gates of the unseen shall not be prevailing against it.


( KJV-1611) And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I will build my Church: and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it.

(HRB) And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against her.

(KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(KJV+) AndG1161 I say alsoG2504 G3004 unto thee,G4671 ThatG3754 thouG4771 artG1488 Peter,G4074 andG2532 uponG1909 thisG5026 rockG4073 I will buildG3618 myG3450 church;G1577 andG2532 the gatesG4439 of hellG86 shall notG3756 prevail againstG2729 it.G846

(LITV) And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against her.

(WoY) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my assembly; and the gates of the grave shall not prevail against it.

(The Scriptures 1998+) “And I also say to you that you are Kĕpha, and on this rock I shall build My assembly, and the gates of the grave shall not overcome it.

(ISV) I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock that I will build my congregation, and the powers of hell will not conquer it.

(YLT) `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;


(ANT) (And) I but [to] you say for You are Peter and at this the rock will build [of] me the congregation and Gates [of] place (invisible) not will overcome her

(ANT+) (And) IG2504 butG1161 [to] youG4671 sayG3004 forG3754 YouG4771 areG1488 PeterG4074 andG2532 atG1909 thisG3778 theG3588 rockG4073 will buildG3618 [of] meG3450 theG3588 congregationG1577 andG2532 GatesG4439 [of] place (invisible)G86 notG3756 will overcomeG2729 herG846


(IGrNT+) καγωG2504 δεG1161 AND I ALSO σοιG4671 TO THEE λεγωG3004 [G5719] SAY, οτιG3754 THAT συG4771 THOU ειG1488 [G5748] ART πετροςG4074 PETER, καιG2532 AND επιG1909 ON ταυτηG3778 τηG3588 THIS πετραG4073 ROCK οικοδομησωG3618 [G5692] I WILL BUILD μουG3450 τηνG3588 MY εκκλησιανG1577 ASSEMBLY, καιG2532 AND πυλαιG4439 GATES αδουG86 ουG3756 OF HADES κατισχυσουσινG2729 [G5692] SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST αυτηςG846 IT.

PS: Jesus came to save His people and all who want to join with His people, Israel!!

Mat_1:21 And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Yahshua, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Luk_1:68 Blessed be YAHWEH, the Elohim of Israel, because He visited and worked salvation for His people.

Luk_1:77 to give a knowledge of salvation (Yahshua) to His people by the removing of their sins,

Luk_7:16 And fear took hold of all; and they glorified YAHWEH, saying, A great prophet has risen up among us; and, YAHWEH has visited His people.

Rom_11:1 I say then, Did not YAHWEH thrust away His people? Let it not be! For I also am an Israelite, out of Abraham's seed, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom_15:10 And again He says, "Rejoice, nations, with His people." (Deu 32:43 Rejoice, O nations with Him, and let the Cherubs of Elohim worship Him. Rejoice you nations with His people; for He shall avenge the blood of His servants, and shall render vengeance to His foes, and will atone for His land and His people.)

Heb_10:30 For we know Him who has said, "Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay," says YAHWEH. And again, "YAHWEH will judge His people." (Deut. 32:35, 36)

Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of YAHWEH is with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and YAHWEH Himself will be with them as their Elohim.


Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Joh 10:16 And I also have other sheep, those who were not from this sheepfold. And also them, It is necessary for me to bring them and they will hear my voice and all the flocks will become one. And there will be One Shepherd. (Eze. 37)

Good grief so elementary.
Synogoue = assembly= a gathering together.
Ekklesia= called out - what we call congregation.
NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POINT.
Israel is not the Church.
Jesus did not lie...He began building His Church I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH in Mt 16:18.
Rome has absolutely nothing to do with the Church, so why does your conspiratorial thinking take you there?
Better to look at the 7 churches in Revelation or Corinth as an example.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Goats are unbelievers - I have seen no one deny our Lord.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[crossnote]

Just a thought on the Rock...

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

It twern't Peter.

Who said it twas?

 

[just-me]

Goats are unbelievers - I have seen no one deny our Lord.

To deny any part of God's "Word" which exemplifies His character and calling it irrelevant or useless for the Gentile Christians, or any part of the human race is denying the Lord.

Name=8034 shem shame a primitive word (perhaps rather from 7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; Compare 8064); an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character:--+ base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

vain=7723 shav' shawv or shav {shav}; from the same as 7722 in the sense of *desolating; evil (as destructive), literally (ruin) or morally (especially guile); figuratively idolatry (as false, subjective), uselessness (as deceptive, objective; also adverbially, in vain):--false(-ly), lie, lying, vain, vanity.

*desolating=to make (a place) bleakly and depressingly empty or bare.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[RedTent]

Goats are unbelievers - I have seen no one deny our Lord.

It just seems that more emphasis is given to the feast, the OT 613 Laws than is given to Christ.

So, instead of listening to God and His word, you are deciding that "goats are unbelievers". On this pronouncement of yours you stake your belief that we must not listen to scripture!

And an excuse to not listen to scripture is what emphasis you see given to different verses?

I should think your study of scripture would be a lot more productive if you would just listen to the Lord and accept what the Lord says instead of pulling each verse apart to see if you can't make it say what you would like it to say.

Instead of pulling the bible apart to see how not to accept and grow in the Lord, it would be more in keeping with the Lord to see how each scripture shows us ways to understand and grow. Then learning about the symbolism God uses goats for in order to know what isn't so, you would find this symbolism to learn more of the Lord's ways.

 

[crossnote]

And who is ignoring/not listening to all of Scripture?...

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

 

[royalscot]

Tell me something I don't know.

how can you follow full law given to moses , without a temple (stone).
after 70 ad.

 

[Laodicea]

And who is ignoring/not listening to all of Scripture?...

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Colossians 2:16 KJV
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Notice the word therefore meaning because of what he said previous no one should be judged for not keeping the feasts why? What did he say concerning the feasts?

Colossians 2:14 KJV
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[royalscot]

And there's yet another example....

But the Law can't save!

Yes, we know. No one is saying that.

The Law was never intended to save.

historys time line, proves they are under an old covenant.
when then were these, feasts ,give to gentile. (act 15 about 48 ad )
and with no temple after (70 ad)
what use are they to a gentile.
because the were given under a old covenant,
and if your in a new covenant. what is the point,

why do you think gentile christains started there own celebrations (feasts)
easter, christmas etc.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Good grief so elementary.
Synogoue = assembly= a gathering together.
Ekklesia= called out - what we call congregation.
NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POINT.
Israel is not the Church.
Jesus did not lie...He began building His Church I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH in Mt 16:18.
Rome has absolutely nothing to do with the Church, so why does your conspiratorial thinking take you there?
Better to look at the 7 churches in Revelation or Corinth as an example.

Then we will have to disagree. I view all scripture as cyclical and circular with no beginning and no ending. Perhaps your view is linear, but God said He would do nothing that was not already revealed through the prophets. If you can back up your claim that Christ separated Israel from a different entity He calls the church through the writings of the prophets, thus your witnesses, then you have a leg to stand on, otherwise you are misinterpreting the New Testament.

 

[crossnote]

Colossians 2:16 KJV
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Notice the word therefore meaning because of what he said previous no one should be judged for not keeping the feasts why? What did he say concerning the feasts?

Colossians 2:14 KJV
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Here is a problem I see.
Some will say they only do it voluntarily-(fine)-
But others who are of the same group, will say that the three admonitions (3 laws to them) given in Acts 15 are only the beginning, as if the Gentiles are to eventually live under all 613. Ludicrous.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

historys time line, proves they are under an old covenant.
when then were these, feasts ,give to gentile. (act 15 about 48 ad )
and with no temple after (70 ad)
what use are they to a gentile.
because the were given under a old covenant,
and if your in a new covenant. what is the point,

why do you think gentile christains started there own celebrations (feasts)
easter, christmas etc.

Rebellion by the rebels. Desiring man-made doctrines and traditions. Adding to the Word, which is forbidden.

 

[crossnote]

Then we will have to disagree. I view all scripture as cyclical and circular with no beginning and no ending. Perhaps your view is linear, but God said He would do nothing that was not already revealed through the prophets. If you can back up your claim that Christ separated Israel from a different entity He calls the church through the writings of the prophets, thus your witnesses, then you have a leg to stand on, otherwise you are misinterpreting the New Testament.

The Church is not mentioned in the prophets but is a mystery revealed through the Apostles.

Ephesians 3:3-10 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The OT prophets writings will once again 'kick in' when the Church is gone and God is directly dealing with Israel through tribulation and Millennium. IMHO

 

[RedTent]

We need to ask ourselves, did Paul teach how not to have anything we do reflect the principles of Christ, or did Paul teach a closer walk with the Lord? Paul taught against many things formerly done to stay close to the principles of the Lord. Paul taught against physical circumcision and taught spiritual circumcision. Paul did this with many customs the Jews had used, saying the Lord looked at the spirit and truth rather than the physical acts. Many people read Paul to say that Paul was against anything we do with anything but our minds through the Holy Spirit is outlawed. These people only allow baptism and communion to be performed physically as a symbol, and they go to great lengths to excuse themselves for allowing that.

I think Paul had no idea he was teaching the world to never physically do anything to worship. Paul thought he was explaining that God looks at the spirit behind the physical acts.

With the understanding we have in our today's culture, everyone is saying anything we do in this world to worship is Judaism and that is like saying it is sinful. If Paul read all these posts about all the things we must not do like honoring any Sabbath and never have a feast day he would use the same language against that idea as he used against the idea that God required physical rather than spiritual obedience.

 

[RedTent]

how can you follow full law given to moses , without a temple (stone).
after 70 ad.

Are you so completely legalistic that you see no spiritual truth given in the physical temple?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Here is a problem I see.
Some will say they only do it voluntarily-(fine)-
But others who are of the same group, will say that the three admonitions (3 laws to them) given in Acts 15 are only the beginning, as if the Gentiles are to eventually live under all 613. Ludicrous.

Most definitely ludicrous!! Even Jesus couldn't uphold all 613 since he was not a Levites, not a woman, not a farmer. So Jesus couldn't have fulfilled "all the law for us" now could He? So the saying "Jesus fulfilled all the law for us" is incorrect. Jesus fulfilled "THE LAW", meaning He fulfilled a certain law.

Deuteronomy 24 King James Version (KJV)


24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.


2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.


3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;


4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Only death of the spouses enable those divorced to re-enter a marriage contract with the same person. The resurrection of Christ is how God brought about the new covenant. I've posted else where in more detail of Christ fulfilling "THE LAW". He did not do away with commandments and Sabbath(s) (plural) and Yah's Feasts.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Can I worship another God? Should I participate in a barroom brawl killing someone with my concealed weapon? Shall I say nothing to my son if he is a drunkard and disrespectful? I could go on and on, but they are not the only laws that gentiles should keep. What I am saying is that this was the beginning of understanding for them so they wouldn't be overwhelmed. I will highlight in red, from the scripture you so graciously quoted, giving reason to their decision to those who were new to the faith. It was a very compassionate thing for them to do. Verse21

They answered you in the scriptures I gave about worshipping another God, abstain from pollutions of idols.
The other things you give are common sense with a believer, pointing out bad and wrongful acts of another and helping them to turn from them, not kill, not steal, and so on.....
This was a discussion on rather gentile believers should have to follow the same traditions, and customs that the Jews follow.
The circumcision of the flesh, feasts, and others that are part of their mosaic laws. They are saying no, just stick to doing right and walking in love. The customs and traditions don't matter with salvation.

 

[just-me]

how can you follow full law given to moses , without a temple (stone).
after 70 ad.

How can the non-Messianic Rabbis follow the law without a physical temple? They don't know about both circumcision and the temple made without hands.

The law given to Moses is Spiritual for us today. We can be subject to the law with the Spiritual mind we have received through Christ. Being subject to the law is listening to it with great respect. (fearing the Lord) This doesn't mean that we are sinless and have ceased in fighting with the fleshly desires. Even in the Old Covenant, the law made stipulation for people that transgressed, same as we have in Christ Jesus today. Because they (Israel during Moses' day) believed in the atonement for sins, through the shedding of blood, the priesthood and God's promises, they would be forgiven if they trusted in God's promises/word.

Today we have a temple made without hands, and a High Priest to offer us as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service. Now instead of just covering our sinfulness when we error, through Christ, our sins are in remission, not just covered by making sacrifice after sacrifice with animals. We still have a temple with the same principles as the old, and a final sacrifice with a High Priest who will never die, unlike the old having to have an heir to the priesthood to take his place generation after generation. Instead of God's spirit sitting on a physical mercy seat, He dwells within us because we are now the temple, and our High Priest is Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building;

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy ; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

If it wasn't for the law, we would never know these things in relation to the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. We would have nothing to compare the New Covenant with or know what it was all about if we didn't have this parable of the Old Covenant i.e. "shadow of things to come". If you cannot see the relationship of this you are only seeing it in the physical and carnal mindset.

Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be .

 

[royalscot]

Are you so completely legalistic that you see no spiritual truth given in the physical temple?

wrong, history time line is spiritual, it proves there was an old and new covenants. and when they came into affect,
they were comanded to follow these laws decrees and feasts, or do them. under a old covenant.
history teaches , how can you follow, laws, decrees, and feasts. with out a temple. (stone)

jesus standing in the temple and said i will rebuild this temple in 3 days.

what temple was he talking about. and what covenant was he under, when speaking these words to a jewish nation.


why, did god give cornelius a vision to send for peter (acts 10) new covenant, first know jesus, then who saves and gives you the holy spirit.
[SUP]16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him
[/SUP]

 

[just-me]

They answered you in the scriptures I gave about worshipping another God, abstain from pollutions of idols.
The other things you give are common sense with a believer, pointing out bad and wrongful acts of another and helping them to turn from them, not kill, not steal, and so on.....
This was a discussion on rather gentile believers should have to follow the same traditions, and customs that the Jews follow.
The circumcision of the flesh, feasts, and others that are part of their mosaic laws. They are saying no, just stick to doing right and walking in love. The customs and traditions don't matter with salvation.

God's law is not traditions of the Jews. They may think it is or was but Jesus had a problem with them because it wasn't. I observe the feasts for their spiritual meaning. I am circumcised according to the law also. I have something for you to do to help you to understand what I'm saying. Find in the law that God gave to Moses the law of circumcision and how it was applied. Then PM me and tell me what you have found. I challenge all who read this to do the same. It is a good learning experience.

read this while your at it