What does the Law REALLY say?

[Elin]

The following is from "the Scriptures," and it seems to me the Child in the prophesy is our Lord, Jesus Christ, and one of His names is "Everlasting Father."

The Scriptures are indeed saying something here.

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

In light of NT teaching, would that be a reference to Jesus being an enduring, compassionate protector and provider, as the good shepherd of 40:9-11?

Isa 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to

Yes, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant (2Sa 7:5-16).

 

[chubbena]

Both are Heb 10:26-29.

The fact: "if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" applies to all believers.
Of course the lawlessness hate this verse and want to restrict this verse to the "Judaizers".

 

[chubbena]

And no one ever said they did.

The Word became the Son, and if you read what I posted, you will find that is what is said.

You are under the mistaken idea that Christ came to do away with what the Father did in the Old Testament. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus Christ was the LORD of the Old Testament.

And again, nice misdirect.

Wrong...it's not nice to misdirect. It's simply not nice. It's wicked to put words in others mouth!

 

[Elin]

The fact: "if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left"
applies to all believers.

Yes, apostasy from faith in Christ bringing condemnation applies to all those professing faith in Christ.

But apostasy shows their faith was never true, it was counterfeit, and they were never saved in the first place (1Jn 2:19).

Which is what it would show if these Hebrews returned to Judaism, forsaking Christ as their Savior.

 

[chubbena]

Then show were Scripture states we are saved through the Law.

And if Scripture does not say it, then neither should you.

You handle the word of God too loosely.

There is no scripture states what you said here so park it.

 

[chubbena]

Yes, apostasy from faith in Christ bringing condemnation applies to all those professing faith in Christ.

But apostasy shows their faith was never true, it was counterfeit, and they were never saved in the first place (1Jn 2:19).

Which is what it would show if these Hebrews returned to Judaism, forsaking Christ as their Savior.

What does it have to do with the fact that "if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" applies to all believers?
If all you want to show is your supremacy on words then I'd let you have it.

 

[Elin]

Then show were Scripture states we are saved through the Law.

And if Scripture does not say it, then neither should you.

You handle the word of God too loosely.

There is no scripture states what you said here so park it.

Glad to see we are in agreement.

 

[Elin]

The fact: "if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left"
applies to all believers.

Yes, apostasy from faith in Christ bringing condemnation applies to all those professing faith in Christ.

But apostasy shows their faith was never true, it was counterfeit, and they were never saved in the first place (1Jn 2:19).

Which is what it would show if these Hebrews returned to Judaism, forsaking Christ as their Savior.

What does it have to do with the fact that "if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left"
applies to all believers?

It expresses agreement with you.

 

[royalscot]

when were you perfect, to enter the gate. sorry. lol kids saying history is nothing. lol
.9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know; am I my brother's keeper?"10 And the LORD said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to me from the ground.

have fun google etc lol

 

[KohenMatt]

JUSTICE – Part 2 of 5

286 Exodus 23:1 - A Judge is not to receive a wicked man's testimony.
Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.


287 Deuteronomy 24:16 - A Judge receive not testimony from litigant's relatives.
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


288 Deuteronomy 19:15 - Not convicting on the testimony of a single witness.
One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


289 Exodus 20:13 - Not murdering a human being.
Thou shalt not kill.


290 Exodus 23:7 - No conviction based on circumstantial evidence alone.
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.


291 Numbers 35:30 - A witness must not sit as a Judge in capital cases.
Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.


292 Numbers 35:12 - Not killing a murderer without trial and conviction.
And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment.


293 Deuteronomy 25:12 - Not to pity or spare the life of a pursuer.
Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.


294 Deuteronomy 22:26 - Not punishing a person for a sin committed under duress.
But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:


295 Numbers 35:31 - Not accepting ransom from an unwitting murderer.
Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.


296 Numbers 35:32 - Not accepting a ransom from a wilful murderer.
And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.


297 Leviticus 19:16 - Hesitate not to save life of another person in danger.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.


298 Deuteronomy 22:8 - Not leaving obstacles on public or private domain.
When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.


299 Leviticus 19:14 - Not misleading another by giving wrong advice.
Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.

 

[KohenMatt]

How does one relate Deuteronomy 1:17 with "not appointing an unlearned judge ignorant of the Torah"?

I think the command itself is directed towards the judge himself, and is told not to show partiality. I suppose that impartiality stems from a commitment to Torah.

 

[chubbena]

I think the command itself is directed towards the judge himself, and is told not to show partiality. I suppose that impartiality stems from a commitment to Torah.

Looks to me it makes more sense to include Deuteronomy 1:13-16 because biblically wise, understanding and respected men are those who has a thorough understanding of the Torah. What do you think?

 

[Kerry]

I think the law points to the cross and you cannot keep an inkling of the law without the Spirit and the only way to get the Spirit is by placing faith in the cross or why did He do it?

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe the following should say something to the reasoning being displayed here.

Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Deu 32:4

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deu 32:5
They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

 

[JaumeJ]

If one understands Jesus Christ, he understands the following is not speaking only on the subject of physical vision...........

Deu 27:18
Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is from the curses pronounced in Deuteronomy. It is in Torah.

 

[Elin]

If one understands Jesus Christ, he understands the following is not speaking only on the subject of physical vision...........

Deu 27:18
Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is from the curses pronounced in Deuteronomy. It is in Torah.

Yes, and if one understands Jesus Christ he understands:

Gal 1:9:

"If anyone is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned."

It is in the NT.

 

[Elin]

I believe the following should say something to the reasoning being displayed here.

Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Deu 32:4

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deu 32:5
They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

Agreed. . . .

 

[Dan_473]

Me too. And I believe He is the Word of God. But somehow some want part of Him dead.

I don't see James speaking against being zealous of the law but rather being zealous in the wrong places. The decision in the council did not in anyway suggest the law was done away with. After all, to abstain from blood is not something new but from the Word spoken through and recorded by Moses.
It's a unique situation here and everywhere at this point in time that many are against the law the way they do.
The word of the LORD in the OT is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.

well... I agree that James isn't speaking against being zealous of the law... I think there were thousands of believing Jewish people in that area... they were zealous for the law... Paul and James don't seem interested in 'fixing' the situation... now, fast forward to today... are there similar communities of believers today? I can't find any, which leads me to believe that the spirit isn't leading the church in that direction today...

 

[royalscot]

Looks to me it makes more sense to include Deuteronomy 1:13-16 because biblically wise, understanding and respected men are those who has a thorough understanding of the Torah. What do you think?

ware is the temple ,makes , more sence,if time is on your side , useing history as a ??????????????? foolish to your hog wash, sorry but its the truth that sets you free. not opinion. have fun with that desernment. lol

 

[chubbena]

well... I agree that James isn't speaking against being zealous of the law... I think there were thousands of believing Jewish people in that area... they were zealous for the law... Paul and James don't seem interested in 'fixing' the situation... now, fast forward to today... are there similar communities of believers today? I can't find any, which leads me to believe that the spirit isn't leading the church in that direction today...

Well Paul and James do but they trust the preaching and reading of Moses in the synagogues in every city on every Sabbath would take care of such cf Acts 15:21.