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Even Jesus exhibited violence when he took a whip to drive out the money-changers out of the temple.. He may not have hit anyone with the whip, but just showing it and cracking it exhibits potential violence. So obviously Jesus "took action" when he saw a wrong being done..He did not stand by and pray "please put a stop to this."
K
Luke 22:35-39 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." [SUP]36[/SUP] Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. [SUP]37[/SUP] "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." [SUP]38[/SUP] So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." [SUP]39[/SUP] Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him.
Jason I heard you use the scripture above, and state was talking about spiritual swords ( word of God ).
But you only gave half the scripture and did not give verses 38 and 39 where the apostles said here are two swords.
Did Jesus tell them that was not what he was talking about, or not to take them. No he said that would be enough for them.
He did tell them not to carry actual swords, but to buy them and that the two they had was enough.
Jason I heard you use the scripture above, and state was talking about spiritual swords ( word of God ).
But you only gave half the scripture and did not give verses 38 and 39 where the apostles said here are two swords.
Did Jesus tell them that was not what he was talking about, or not to take them. No he said that would be enough for them.
He did tell them not to carry actual swords, but to buy them and that the two they had was enough.
First, I am glad you have joined us back in discussing the Word of God.
Second, like Jesus, I am not against showing righteous anger if it is an appropriate time to do so (Under the leading of the Spirit); However, Jesus display was not intended so as to actually physically hurt anyone and or to make us think that we should hurt anyone physically. In fact, if there was ever a time Jesus could have cut loose in executing Judgment, that would have been the most appropriate time because it was the clearest moment he clearly showed his anger physically.
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E
Wow its amazing what you don't understand about these situations. Let's say I had a gun at the time..dudes attacking my sister I try to stop him it doesn't work. I then draw my gun and say stop or I'll shoot..He doesn't stop. Bang! Stopped.
Oh but wait what if he ended up being a pastor...as if me or anyone else could know that. And if God wanted him to stop yes he would have stopped but yet he didn't did he.
When I busted through the door I saw his look of "why are you stopping me" thus I ended it the only way I could. Took out his knee dragged him away.
But you I presume would have pulled him off and tried to preach.
Have you Jason ever been in a situation like that? If no then you sure as heck cannot say what you would do.
Oh but wait what if he ended up being a pastor...as if me or anyone else could know that. And if God wanted him to stop yes he would have stopped but yet he didn't did he.
When I busted through the door I saw his look of "why are you stopping me" thus I ended it the only way I could. Took out his knee dragged him away.
But you I presume would have pulled him off and tried to preach.
Have you Jason ever been in a situation like that? If no then you sure as heck cannot say what you would do.
First, Jesus told his disciples plainly about his death and resurrection, but yet they didn't understand that right away either.
Luke 18:31-34
"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."
Second, you emphasize one point of what Jesus said and you are not understanding what He just said to his disciples.
HE WHO HAS NO SWORD LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT AND BUY ONE.
Okay, this is Jesus here. He just gave them a command. Only two guys had swords or one of them possessed two swords. But yet, He just said that He who has no sword is to go out and sell his garment and buy one. Why did Jesus change or alter this command when they presented Him two swords? For if Jesus was talking about a real physical sword, then He would be like, "Did you not hear me?" "Those who do not have a sword (The disciples who did not own the two swords) are to go out and sell their garment and buy a sword."
That is the original order or command. But the fact that Jesus did not repeat the first original command, we now know that He was speaking of a spiritual sword and not an actual physical sword. But because they needed to be taught by way of example: Jesus showed them using Peter that their trust for protection was not in actual physical sword but it was supposed to be in a spiritual sword, known as the Word of God (See Ephesians 6).
Luke 18:31-34
"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."
Second, you emphasize one point of what Jesus said and you are not understanding what He just said to his disciples.
HE WHO HAS NO SWORD LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT AND BUY ONE.
Okay, this is Jesus here. He just gave them a command. Only two guys had swords or one of them possessed two swords. But yet, He just said that He who has no sword is to go out and sell his garment and buy one. Why did Jesus change or alter this command when they presented Him two swords? For if Jesus was talking about a real physical sword, then He would be like, "Did you not hear me?" "Those who do not have a sword (The disciples who did not own the two swords) are to go out and sell their garment and buy a sword."
That is the original order or command. But the fact that Jesus did not repeat the first original command, we now know that He was speaking of a spiritual sword and not an actual physical sword. But because they needed to be taught by way of example: Jesus showed them using Peter that their trust for protection was not in actual physical sword but it was supposed to be in a spiritual sword, known as the Word of God (See Ephesians 6).
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K
Yes I do understand.
You are not the one who understands. It plainly says go and buy a sword ( not spiritual ), and the disciples said look here are two swords, and He said it is enough.
This is not spiritual swords, or the word of God being talked about here. They were actual swords.
He did not alter or change what He said.
He told them to go buy some as if nobody had one, when they saw that they had two already Jesus said that would be enough. There was no need to go get more because they had enough for the situation at hand.
You are not the one who understands. It plainly says go and buy a sword ( not spiritual ), and the disciples said look here are two swords, and He said it is enough.
This is not spiritual swords, or the word of God being talked about here. They were actual swords.
He did not alter or change what He said.
He told them to go buy some as if nobody had one, when they saw that they had two already Jesus said that would be enough. There was no need to go get more because they had enough for the situation at hand.
E
I think the main point you refuse to accept Jason is this..we are NOT talking about people being persecuted for their faith but about a physical attack against someone for no other intention other than harm.
You keep refusing to understand this point. You are so far up on your horse you won't and can't see our argument. And if you say yes I understand you are lying because you keep bringing up Jesus, Paul and the other Apostles who were martyred which is a different word with different meaning than murdered.
Jump on me now tell me you don't keep bringing them up...which would be a lie. You REFUSE to admit a difference.
And I'll say this again so people can see your true colors...I apologized for something I said out of not knowing and you totally refused to acknowledge it or anything. Yep that's you skip.
(you like the smiley face?)
You keep refusing to understand this point. You are so far up on your horse you won't and can't see our argument. And if you say yes I understand you are lying because you keep bringing up Jesus, Paul and the other Apostles who were martyred which is a different word with different meaning than murdered.
Jump on me now tell me you don't keep bringing them up...which would be a lie. You REFUSE to admit a difference.
And I'll say this again so people can see your true colors...I apologized for something I said out of not knowing and you totally refused to acknowledge it or anything. Yep that's you skip.
(you like the smiley face?)
Kenneth...there are some people who will not listen, because to listen would actually prove them wrong...he is one such person who twists scripture, rejects scripture, takes scripture out of context, fails to prove his stance by scripture in context, spiritualizes away scripture, uses the O.T. when it justifies his stance, rejects the O.T. when it goes against his stance, is above being open to learning and instruction and seemingly regurgitates something that has been taught to him by someone else who is ignorant of certain scriptural truths...NO wonder he was rejected and hammered at the other site that he was on....a joke for sure!