Contradiction of WORDS

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Alligator

Guest
#142
#142
Alligator said:
Its quite easy to offer acerbic comments Elin, not quite so easy to provide a legitimate defense of your position.
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Elin said:
It is not an example of salvation, and cannot apply to salvation.
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No one said it was. It's an example of OBEDIENCE to comply with God's commands. You know as well as I do that Naaman would not have been cured if he had refused God's command.
 
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Elin

Banned
#143
Jan 19, 2013
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#143
Alligator said:
No one said it was. It's an example of OBEDIENCE to comply with God's commands. You know as well as I do that Naaman would not have been cured if he had refused God's command.
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The issue is salvation.

Naaman does not apply to the issue, no matter what he did.
 
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Alligator

Guest
#144
#144
Alligator said:
Its quite easy to offer acerbic comments Elin, not quite so easy to provide a legitimate defense of your position.
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Alligator said:
No one said it was. It's an example of OBEDIENCE to comply with God's commands. You know as well as I do that Naaman would not have been cured if he had refused God's command.
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Elin said:
The issue is salvation.

Naaman does not apply to the issue, no matter what he did.
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It certainly could apply to salvation. See this.

God's Command (Mark 16:15-16). We obey. We receive salvation

God's Command to Naaman. He obeys He is healed.

The principal is the same.
it all goes back to OBEDIENCE
 
C

Charlie24

Guest
#145
#145
SeaBass said:
Because free gifts can and do come with conditions. Yet working to meet those conditions do not earn anything.

In Jn 6:27 it says Jesus GIVES everlasting life, it's free for He gives it. Since He gives it for free why did He say to labour for it? Because Jesus is the gift giver and has the right to place conditions upon His free gift. There is nothing written anywhere that says Jesus must give His free gift UNCONDITIONALLY, Jesus has the right to put CONDITIONS upon His free gift.


Again, Naaman worked for his healing by going and dipping so does that means he earned his healing therefore grace had NOTHING to do with it?
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Abraham was saved the same way as Naaman, as for that matter, you and I are saved the same way as Abraham and Naaman.

Was Abraham saved by obeying God and leaving his homeland to a country God would show him? Was Abraham saved by anything he outwardly did in obeying God (works)? No, certainly not! I know this because the Bible says, "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness." In like manner was Naaman also saved. It was his belief that saved him, not anything he did.

I believe the question was, would Naaman have been saved if he hadn't dipped in the Jordan? No he would not. It would have proved his unbelief. But when Naaman made the decision (faith) to do as the prophet of God instructed, he was saved. Naaman was saved before he even stepped into the water, as Abraham was saved before he ever left the Ur of Chaldees to the land promised by God. It is by faith that we are saved, not of works.

We work because we are saved, not to get saved. Paul makes this clear in Rom. 11:6, he makes a sharp contrast between faith and works:

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Grace cannot be mixed with works or works mixed with grace. They are contrary to one another.

It is impossible for Naaman to have been saved by faith and dipping in the Jordan. It was his faith alone that saved him.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#146
#146
Charlie24 said:
Abraham was saved the same way as Naaman, as for that matter, you and I are saved the same way as Abraham and Naaman.

Was Abraham saved by obeying God and leaving his homeland to a country God would show him? Was Abraham saved by anything he outwardly did in obeying God (works)? No, certainly not! I know this because the Bible says, "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness." In like manner was Naaman also saved. It was his belief that saved him, not anything he did.

I believe the question was, would Naaman have been saved if he hadn't dipped in the Jordan? No he would not. It would have proved his unbelief. But when Naaman made the decision (faith) to do as the prophet of God instructed, he was saved. Naaman was saved before he even stepped into the water, as Abraham was saved before he ever left the Ur of Chaldees to the land promised by God. It is by faith that we are saved, not of works.

We work because we are saved, not to get saved. Paul makes this clear in Rom. 11:6, he makes a sharp contrast between faith and works:

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
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Grace cannot be mixed with works or works mixed with grace. They are contrary to one another.

It is impossible for Naaman to have been saved by faith and dipping in the Jordan. It was his faith alone that saved him.
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You say Naaman would not have been "saved" if he had not dipped in the Jordan river, then you say he was saved before he ever dipped? The question is WHEN did God heal Naaman? It was AFTER he dipped, not before.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#147
Jul 31, 2013
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#147
Alligator said:
No one said it was. It's an example of OBEDIENCE to comply with God's commands. You know as well as I do that Naaman would not have been cured if he had refused God's command.
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and what if Namaan had simply believed, and like Hezekiah, turned his face to the wall, and prayed, instead of bringing money & gifts to a prophet in a far away land?

was Hezekiah not healed? (!)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#148
Jul 31, 2013
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#148
how did Nebudchanezzar "earn" God's grace?

before he knew of God, the Lord blessed him and called him His servant.
later, according to the Lord's will, Daniel and others witnessed to him of the true God.
Nebudchanezzar needed hard teachings to learn -- to humble him, the Lord gave him to madness for 7 years.

and how did it please the Lord to return Nebudchanezzar to sanity?
when 7 years had passed, according to God's design & judgement, and then the king blessed the name of the true God.

there is no 'righteous works' in this story. there is belief in the heart and confession with the mouth.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#149
#149
Alligator said:
No one said it was. It's an example of OBEDIENCE to comply with God's commands. You know as well as I do that Naaman would not have been cured if he had refused God's command.
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posthuman said:
and what if Namaan had simply believed, and like Hezekiah, turned his face to the wall, and prayed, instead of bringing money & gifts to a prophet in a far away land?

was Hezekiah not healed? (!)
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if Naaman only had to believe, then why did God ask him to dip? He told him to dip for a reason.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#150
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
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#150
Alligator said:
if Naaman only had to believe, then why did God ask him to dip? He told him to dip for a reason.
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and why wasn't Hezekiah told to dip in any river?

he simply prayed in faith, and his prayer was heard.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#151
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#151
john832 said:
My father made an offer to me when I was in my early teens. He said that if I did not smoke a cigarette before age 21, he would give to me my grandfathers gold pocket watch.

Now, did not smoking EARN the watch? No, my grandfather worked and earned the money to buy the watch. The watch would have been a free gift, it would cost me nothing and I didn't work to earn it. Were there conditions applied? Yes, I was not to smoke prior to age 21.

Can God put conditions on the receipt of gifts?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Does obedience EARN the Holy Spirit? No. Does God give it to just anyone? No. To whom does He give it? Those who obey Him.
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The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ . . .
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#152
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
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#152
Alligator said:
if Naaman only had to believe, then why did God ask him to dip? He told him to dip for a reason.
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if Naaman had not brought money and gifts to a prophet far away, he would not have been instructed by the prophet in any way.

but if instead he had simply prayed in faith -- do you think God would have heard him?
 
C

Charlie24

Guest
#153
#153
Alligator said:
You say Naaman would not have been "saved" if he had not dipped in the Jordan river, then you say he was saved before he ever dipped? The question is WHEN did God heal Naaman? It was AFTER he dipped, not before.
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The healing took place when he did as God commanded, when he dipped. The salvation of his soul took place when he believed God.

Salvation took place before the healing of leprosy.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#154
Dec 12, 2013
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#154
SeaBass said:
A post with no biblical, logical refutation - just unnecessary complaints and name calling.
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The only two possible names I could use after reading what you wrote concerning the post is blind and or maybe borderline liar....as a very careful reading to the this post reveals the truth that you accused me of calling you a name and it is obvious that I did not call you a name so do you plan on repenting for wrongfully misrepresenting the truth which is lying!

So...what did that accusatory lie cost you concerning your salvation seeing how you believe you can loose it when you sin...that would be Deuteronomy 5:20 which would be commandment #7 and is also one of the 7 that God hates Proverbs 6...so good luck with not losing your salvation....and exactly which work will you do to get it back?

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Just because you bold something means nothing...How about this I can make things big as well...FAITH IS ALSO CALLED A SPIRITUAL GIFT...ONE OF THREE REMAINING 1ST CORINTHIANS 13

I suggest you pray and seek the Jesus of the bible instead of the pseudo Jesus of Alexander Campbell
 
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A

Alligator

Guest
#155
#155
Charlie24 said:
The healing took place when he did as God commanded, when he dipped. The salvation of his soul took place when he believed God.

Salvation took place before the healing of leprosy.
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And you can back that up with scripture?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#156
Dec 12, 2013
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#156
john832 said:
My father made an offer to me when I was in my early teens. He said that if I did not smoke a cigarette before age 21, he would give to me my grandfathers gold pocket watch.

Now, did not smoking EARN the watch? No, my grandfather worked and earned the money to buy the watch. The watch would have been a free gift, it would cost me nothing and I didn't work to earn it. Were there conditions applied? Yes, I was not to smoke prior to age 21.

Can God put conditions on the receipt of gifts?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Does obedience EARN the Holy Spirit? No. Does God give it to just anyone? No. To whom does He give it? Those who obey Him.
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Well we are not talking packs of cigarettes and or gifts from a earthly man so no matter how many times you twist, turn, reject, deny, argue, debate etc. the word of God it will not change the fact that salvation is by grace dia faith with no strings and or works attached for the actual saving...Galatians teaches that people who add works to faith to be made complete teach a heretical false gospel that is double cursed to hell...I suggest you re-evaluate saving faith before it is too late for you as well bro!
 
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elf3

Guest
#157
#157
I think that some of the words people mix up the most are grace, faith, works and salvation (saved). And actually all four words are used together in one passage which actually puts them in order.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by GRACE you have been SAVED, though FAITH-and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of God - not by WORKS, so that no one can boast."

We MUST keep them in order and correct context. Only by moving those four words around can we get that our works save us. And notice what it says about works...not by works.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#158
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
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#158
how did Christ heal?

one man, he anointed with mud, and said "go and wash"

another man, he said "your faith has made you whole"

so one man, by faith, obeyed, and was made whole
but another man, only having faith, did no more than call out to the Lord, and was also made whole.

then faith is enough, but the Lord may require whatever the Lord desires of His servants.
 
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elf3

Guest
#159
#159
Now for alligator what does that passage say about works?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#160
Dec 12, 2013
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#160
elf3 said:
If it is a free gift then why do we have to labor/work for it? If we have to work for it is is not free.

You just double talked yourself here. In one sentence you say it's a free gift then the next sentence you say we have to labor/work for it.

So is it free or do we have to work for it?
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That is why it is obvious that he doesn't know what he is saying.....Just like the OP...total contradictions of words and thoughts....gospel of confusion from the King of Confusion.....The King being Satan himself........!
 
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