I saluting a soldier with a cup of coffee disrespectful?
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Anyone that knows me well knows that I am no fan of Obama or his politics, however I think too much of a big deal is being made over this faux pas. IMO a salute with a cup of coffee in hand is by far less disrespectful than just outright ignoring the salute. I'm assuming that the President is right handed in which case it would only be natural that he be carrying something in his right hand.
The custom (not regulation) of the President saluting military personnel was started by Ronald Reagan. Prior to him no other President had ever returned a salute to military personnel, this included President Washington (former General) President Grant (former General) and President Eisenhower (former General).
Why? The military salute the President as their Commander in Chief, however since the President is a civilian he has no obligation to return the salute, nor would he necessarily know the proper protocol for the salute.
The custom (not regulation) of the President saluting military personnel was started by Ronald Reagan. Prior to him no other President had ever returned a salute to military personnel, this included President Washington (former General) President Grant (former General) and President Eisenhower (former General).
Why? The military salute the President as their Commander in Chief, however since the President is a civilian he has no obligation to return the salute, nor would he necessarily know the proper protocol for the salute.
Interestingly enough even within the US military (*at least from those sites I've looked at) a salute is not required to be given (or returned) if the person's hand is full at the time thus even if the President were required to return a salute he would not have been outside of regulation to have not returned the salute in this case. Some branches allow for a left handed salute if the right is full.
[h=3] Copied from this document
[h=2]Army Regulation 600-25[/h] 24 September 2004 Effective date: 24 October 2004 UNCLASSIFIED Personnel—General [h=1]Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy[/h]
1-5. Hand salutes and salutes with arms [/h]
a. For instructions on executing the hand salute, see FM 3-21.5, paragraph 4-4 .
b. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service entitled to the salute.
c. The junior person shall salute first. Accompanying the rendering of the hand salute with an appropriate greeting such as, "Good Morning, Sir" or "Good Morning, Ma'am" is encouraged. Personnel will not salute indoors except when reporting to a superior officer.
d. The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.
e. It is customary to salute officers of friendly foreign nations when recognized as such. The commanding general, U.S. European Command; the commanding general, U.S. Army Europe and Seventh U.S. Army; commanding general, U.S. Forces Korea and Eighth U.S. Army; commanding general, U.S. Army, Pacific; and commanding general, U.S. Army, Southern Command, are delegated the authority to establish policies for recognition courtesies prevailing locally for foreign officials. Should inactivation eliminate any of these commands, the authority will pass down to the next level of command. This authority will not be delegated further.
f. The President of the United States, as the commander in chief, will be saluted by Army personnel in uniform.
g. Civilian personnel, to include civilian guards, are not required to render the hand salute to military personnel or other civilian personnel.
h. Military personnel under arms will render the salute prescribed for the weapon with which they are armed, whether or not that weapon ordinarily is prescribed as part of their equipment.
i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are —
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.
(4) Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation.
[h=2]Army Regulation 600-25[/h] 24 September 2004 Effective date: 24 October 2004 UNCLASSIFIED Personnel—General [h=1]Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy[/h]
1-5. Hand salutes and salutes with arms [/h]
a. For instructions on executing the hand salute, see FM 3-21.5, paragraph 4-4 .
b. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service entitled to the salute.
c. The junior person shall salute first. Accompanying the rendering of the hand salute with an appropriate greeting such as, "Good Morning, Sir" or "Good Morning, Ma'am" is encouraged. Personnel will not salute indoors except when reporting to a superior officer.
d. The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.
e. It is customary to salute officers of friendly foreign nations when recognized as such. The commanding general, U.S. European Command; the commanding general, U.S. Army Europe and Seventh U.S. Army; commanding general, U.S. Forces Korea and Eighth U.S. Army; commanding general, U.S. Army, Pacific; and commanding general, U.S. Army, Southern Command, are delegated the authority to establish policies for recognition courtesies prevailing locally for foreign officials. Should inactivation eliminate any of these commands, the authority will pass down to the next level of command. This authority will not be delegated further.
f. The President of the United States, as the commander in chief, will be saluted by Army personnel in uniform.
g. Civilian personnel, to include civilian guards, are not required to render the hand salute to military personnel or other civilian personnel.
h. Military personnel under arms will render the salute prescribed for the weapon with which they are armed, whether or not that weapon ordinarily is prescribed as part of their equipment.
i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are —
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.
(4) Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation.
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didymos
Guest
No, comparing the US military to boy scouts is disrepectful.
Btw there's already a thread on this: feel free to troll there.
Obama is left-handed, for the record.
One Election Outcome Certain: A Lefty Will Win White House - The New York Sun
My south paw wife cringes every time I remind her of this.
At least the same was true of Truman and Reagan.
Yes, Virginia, there is a left-handed for whatever side of the political spectrum you support.
Honorable mentions: Benjamin Franklin, Queen Victoria, Charlemagne, Jay Leno, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Albrecht Dürer, and Kermit the Frog!
Source: Famous Left-Handers
Well said!
The salute is just a small symbol of respect in which you must take into account one's intentions when they salute. Obama clearly didn't mean to offend. It reminds me of when a Muslim worker flipped out on a customer because the customer asked for bacon - the customer didn't mean to offend so the hostility towards them was 100% uncalled for.
But even if Obama just didn't care enough to do a proper salute, it just isn't a big deal anyway. Symbolism is personal and those who do not wish to partake in symbolic mannerisms shouldn't be scrutinized unless they are under some form of obligation (which Obama is not as Oncefallen has pointed out).
Honestly, too much is being made of this. While I don't like Obama, when you're getting off a plane, all you want to do is relax, you're tired, stressed, etc. Suddenly, a Marine salutes you. You should've expected it, but you react and salute with the latte in your hand. This "faux pas" could've been committed by any president, governor, etc.
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didymos
Guest
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Brighthouse
Guest
Oncefallen posted a fine document! But in that document is not defined of what a salute truly means or represents. So please allow me to define the meaning of it, for those who wish to understand.When you put out your hand in civilian life, your intent is to greet,but before this was done,it really meet long ago,that you had nothing in your hand in which to hurt another with! hehe
The salute to most mean simple acknowledgement of a rate or rank,but in reality it goes far beyond this simple movement.It defines ones loyalty to another,to respect another who's love for this Country is as great as yours! It represents a love of the people we serve,to remind them that even if they have never been in the service we salute all who love and are loyal to our nation!
A salute show one has all things we believe in common about our Country! Having a cup of coffee in hand during an acknowledgement of this, is like dealing with a cashier at a counter being on the phone.It is rude! And by what you are doing, you are telling the other person they have no real meaning to you. Is this taking this a bit far? i guess one must care to understand this.
So the next time you see someone saluting, or the next time you wish to honor someone by saluting, you know not only what you are doing, but why you are doing it! hope this helps.
The salute to most mean simple acknowledgement of a rate or rank,but in reality it goes far beyond this simple movement.It defines ones loyalty to another,to respect another who's love for this Country is as great as yours! It represents a love of the people we serve,to remind them that even if they have never been in the service we salute all who love and are loyal to our nation!
A salute show one has all things we believe in common about our Country! Having a cup of coffee in hand during an acknowledgement of this, is like dealing with a cashier at a counter being on the phone.It is rude! And by what you are doing, you are telling the other person they have no real meaning to you. Is this taking this a bit far? i guess one must care to understand this.
So the next time you see someone saluting, or the next time you wish to honor someone by saluting, you know not only what you are doing, but why you are doing it! hope this helps.
D
