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T
Courtship is great, it's ideal but to some point believing in this leads to legalism. Don't get me wrong, I too dream to meet someone, become friends, get into courtship, get engaged, marry and live happily ever after., but God writes our love stories different from others. Sometimes having this ideal context of courtship just let me expect that it will happen as I see it, as I dream of., if it doesn't then it's wrong.. IDK if you get me, just my cents. 
Alright, let me get this straight here. Must be very close friends first, then court, then engage, then marry. Umm, what is the purpose of courting? You say courting is a conditional commitment to marry. Sounds to me that what most of you are calling courtship IS engagement...making a commitment to marry someone. So you have to commit to marry someone, then commit to marry someone again? Engagements are not set in stone either, like a contract that if broken for any reason will condemn a person. Seems a bit repetitive to me. Is this some sort of 12 step program or something? Maybe the only difference between the two is a ring, which is another topic altogether. Maybe the term 'dating' has such a bad reputation from the secular view of it that you are just distancing yourself from it by saying 'court' rather than 'date'. Thats understandable, but theres nothing wrong with dating, as long as its not done in the way the world does. Dating is making a date, meeting with someone at a previously specified time, not necessarily some means for devious, perverse activity.
Courtship is, as i know it, some tradition with differing regulations depending upon the culture, whereby 2 proposed partners (often determined by their parents) will meet along with the parents or some other 'matchmaker' to ensure that the rules arent broken. This is frequently done for only a short period of time after which the 'matchmaker' decides the compatibility. It reminds me of a jail visit where two people talk on phones while looking at each other through glass under the supervision of guards. How can you determine if the person is the right one under such strict regulations? Most, if not all, people convey different actions, even if subconscious, with some third party present. You cant know the person as themself under this sort of arrangement. Dating, on the other hand, is a casual meeting to do various things that will let you learn more about the person. It is more versatile which allows you to be around the person in varying atmospheres and conditions. Why would you limit yourselves to knowing only SOME aspects of a person that you have commited to marry?
My perspective is that if you know someone enough to be willing to marry them, wouldnt you know something about your compatibility as well? You better, or you dont know them as well as you think, and shouldnt even consider marriage.
Sorry about the rant (again), but it annoys me that people follow traditions so blindly.
Courtship is, as i know it, some tradition with differing regulations depending upon the culture, whereby 2 proposed partners (often determined by their parents) will meet along with the parents or some other 'matchmaker' to ensure that the rules arent broken. This is frequently done for only a short period of time after which the 'matchmaker' decides the compatibility. It reminds me of a jail visit where two people talk on phones while looking at each other through glass under the supervision of guards. How can you determine if the person is the right one under such strict regulations? Most, if not all, people convey different actions, even if subconscious, with some third party present. You cant know the person as themself under this sort of arrangement. Dating, on the other hand, is a casual meeting to do various things that will let you learn more about the person. It is more versatile which allows you to be around the person in varying atmospheres and conditions. Why would you limit yourselves to knowing only SOME aspects of a person that you have commited to marry?
My perspective is that if you know someone enough to be willing to marry them, wouldnt you know something about your compatibility as well? You better, or you dont know them as well as you think, and shouldnt even consider marriage.
Sorry about the rant (again), but it annoys me that people follow traditions so blindly.
L
The thing is, people say all the time when I am into courting "That's cool, but courting just isn't for me." Perhaps you should accept that dating is cool, but it just isn't for everyone. It has nothing to do with tradition. It is about temperment. I would find it to be wonderful if I woke up one morning and discovered everyone had adopted my views on courting, but I know that will not happen, so I have settled into the fact that people are going to date.
That being said, I personally find courting would be the better option for me because of my tempermant. I find the whole dating scene to be over-played and a waste of time. You say courting is redundant, but is not dating the same thing as courting (at least, should it not be)? Dating should be about dating a person whom you think has potential to be your spouse. The difference is, with courting you don't just go out with a plethora people in order to find the one you think you are best suited for. You are friends with someone just to be friends, and then one day you may both realize there is something more than friendship there. You enter into a courtship with marriage in mind, but it is a buffer before engagement to see if a romantic relationship would work out. However, one would hope you only have one courtship, and this is the case because one usually prays about it before entering into a courtship.
That being said, I personally find courting would be the better option for me because of my tempermant. I find the whole dating scene to be over-played and a waste of time. You say courting is redundant, but is not dating the same thing as courting (at least, should it not be)? Dating should be about dating a person whom you think has potential to be your spouse. The difference is, with courting you don't just go out with a plethora people in order to find the one you think you are best suited for. You are friends with someone just to be friends, and then one day you may both realize there is something more than friendship there. You enter into a courtship with marriage in mind, but it is a buffer before engagement to see if a romantic relationship would work out. However, one would hope you only have one courtship, and this is the case because one usually prays about it before entering into a courtship.
I started my relationship by saying that I wanted to marry her. It wasn't engagement but it was a statement of intent. I got engaged after I knew for sure that I would marry her. The two are similar, but different.
Some people value strict morals.
It's not a tradition any more than dating or sleeping around is a tradition. The Bible shows that right back in the early days there was a tradition of low marriage morals. Pharaoh said to Abraham that someone might have casually slept with his wife because her said she was his sister. People still blindly follow that tradition today.
It's only old and outdated if you don't apply it to today.
Some people value strict morals.
It's not a tradition any more than dating or sleeping around is a tradition. The Bible shows that right back in the early days there was a tradition of low marriage morals. Pharaoh said to Abraham that someone might have casually slept with his wife because her said she was his sister. People still blindly follow that tradition today.
It's only old and outdated if you don't apply it to today.
N
Personally my thought on both processes is that without God there is no good thing that will come to pass.
I have not dated and I believe Courting is the Biblical way of attaining marriage which is something I desire for the future. I am not rushing blindly and foolishly after any young lady that happens to fancy my eye. (sorry if thats mean but thats how dating seems to go) Rather I have friends and we do things together and we have good times. They being guys and girls we all take time to get to know each other better and if in time when maturity comes that one of the ladies seems to stand out to me in this group then after much prayer I will approach the next step if you may with much prayer.
Marriage should not be taken lightly such as much dating seems to downplay the importance of marriage.
I have not dated and I believe Courting is the Biblical way of attaining marriage which is something I desire for the future. I am not rushing blindly and foolishly after any young lady that happens to fancy my eye. (sorry if thats mean but thats how dating seems to go) Rather I have friends and we do things together and we have good times. They being guys and girls we all take time to get to know each other better and if in time when maturity comes that one of the ladies seems to stand out to me in this group then after much prayer I will approach the next step if you may with much prayer.
Marriage should not be taken lightly such as much dating seems to downplay the importance of marriage.
T
In courtship you have to be friends first. You'll ge to know the person by being friends with her/him., I truly believe that's the best way of knowing someone..
Josh Harris illustrated courtship in his book "Boy Meets Girl". It's a very good book, you might want to read it. You don't have to agree to everything written in it but really it's a very good book.
Josh Harris illustrated courtship in his book "Boy Meets Girl". It's a very good book, you might want to read it. You don't have to agree to everything written in it but really it's a very good book.
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A
Well, I disagree with what a lot of what was said. I think dating and courting are two completely different things. To me, dating is getting to know a guy. I literally do not know any guys in my current city other than my boyfriend. So if I didn't have a boyfriend, I'd be going on dates to get to know guys. Now if I lived 100 years ago, I wouldn't be dating, but I'd also (probably) live in a small town where everyone was pretty much like everyone else and everyone has known everyone forever. Now don't get me wrong, I know lots of people who've grown up in small towns and they say that they can't find anyone there. Well, that's because our martial expectations are a lot higher now than they were during the Edwardian era and before. See, back then, men and women lived in what historians called "separate spheres," meaning that they... I don't actually know how to explain it, but I can say that the expectation of closeness is a lot higher now than in times of old fashioned courtship.
So yeah, when I date, it's just to get to know a guy. That's all. Then afterwards we may decide to just be friends to keep dating and eventually becomes an exclusive couple. Then after being a couple for awhile (I suggest at least a year. My mother suggests two years) if you're in love, then you move to courtship. During courtship you talk about whether or not you can make it as a married couple. You talk about what you want in life, and what you think marriage is going to look like, and if you want kids and if so how you're going to raise them, etc. If everythings cool there, then you move onto engagement and marriage.
See, with my sister and brother-in-law, they didn't really date, they were just kind of... unofficially seeing each other, although not really with romantic intentions. Then in the summer of 2000 they had to "define their relationship." So they were boyfriend/girlfriend for a year and a half and then my brother-in-law asked my sister if they wanted to talk about getting married. So they did some REALLY serious talking for a few months both with each other and with others who knew them, and everyone did some serious praying and then after about four months my brother-in-law got her a ring and they started planning their wedding then they got married.
At one point when they were a couple I got my now brother-in-law "Boy Meets Girl" by Joshua Harris. My bro whole heartedly agreed with almost everything Josh said EXCEPT that on Josh's first date with his wife he said that his intentions with her were martimonial in nature. Now he said that because he wanted to make it clear that he was serious and he wasn't just looking for a temporary playmate (something he railed against in his first book) but my bro doesn't think it's wise to bring up marriage so quickly. And that's because I believe something now that I didn't believe when I was 18, you can have a boyfriend for awhile and even if you don't end up getting married, it can still be beneficial.
So yeah, when I date, it's just to get to know a guy. That's all. Then afterwards we may decide to just be friends to keep dating and eventually becomes an exclusive couple. Then after being a couple for awhile (I suggest at least a year. My mother suggests two years) if you're in love, then you move to courtship. During courtship you talk about whether or not you can make it as a married couple. You talk about what you want in life, and what you think marriage is going to look like, and if you want kids and if so how you're going to raise them, etc. If everythings cool there, then you move onto engagement and marriage.
See, with my sister and brother-in-law, they didn't really date, they were just kind of... unofficially seeing each other, although not really with romantic intentions. Then in the summer of 2000 they had to "define their relationship." So they were boyfriend/girlfriend for a year and a half and then my brother-in-law asked my sister if they wanted to talk about getting married. So they did some REALLY serious talking for a few months both with each other and with others who knew them, and everyone did some serious praying and then after about four months my brother-in-law got her a ring and they started planning their wedding then they got married.
At one point when they were a couple I got my now brother-in-law "Boy Meets Girl" by Joshua Harris. My bro whole heartedly agreed with almost everything Josh said EXCEPT that on Josh's first date with his wife he said that his intentions with her were martimonial in nature. Now he said that because he wanted to make it clear that he was serious and he wasn't just looking for a temporary playmate (something he railed against in his first book) but my bro doesn't think it's wise to bring up marriage so quickly. And that's because I believe something now that I didn't believe when I was 18, you can have a boyfriend for awhile and even if you don't end up getting married, it can still be beneficial.
A
I disagree. Well, first of all, I disagree on your definition of courting, which I think should come between being in a relationship and engagement, but I'll go with your definition of courting right now for the sake of simplicity. Secondly, because Joshua Harris has told us so much about the disadvantages of being in boyfriend/girlfriend relationships as teenagers, that many of us are unaware that there can be advantages of such relationships among mature people, even if they don't lead to engagement. Baptistrw says that he thinks dating has made him a better husband. I know where he's coming from. Here's an example from my own life: my boyfriend is a grad student who also has a job on the side and has responsibilities at church. He's a busy guy. He didn't spend Valentine's Day with me, and he didn't get me anything. I was really disappointed, especially because it's been a VEEERY long time since I've had a boyfriend on Valentine's Day. But I realized that I have the option to take a mature approach to this or an immature one. To get mad at him or give him the silent treatment or try to make him feel guilty because he doesn't make more time for me, would definitely be the latter approach. Furthermore, guys can't read minds and I need to take responsibility that I didn't make it more clear to him that I wanted to do something special for V-day. If I had told him, like a month in advance that I wanted to do something for V-day, then he could have planned in advance to make time that day, etc. Then there's who thing about me not getting him anything because he didn't get me anything. Was that immature? Or would giving him some V-day chocolates would have made him feel worse that he didn't get me anything. Which is the high road there? Well, I don't know, but I do know that thinking about what would have been the most mature thing to do is good practice for marriage.
Sexual activities, obviously I agree. But as for kissing, well, I've been heard that there are big disadvantages to not kissing until your married. Some Christian couples have hid their lack of physical desire for the person they were engaged to by saying they didn't believe in kissing before marriage. It's like right now I'm watching Dr. Phil and he's talking to couples who are not having sex enough. That's a real problem for many, many married couples. And we, as singles, don't think of that as being a problem because we're so focused on our temptation to have sex ouside of marriage, it's hard to imagine that one day rolling over and going to sleep instead of having sex with our spouse could be temptation. Now, I'm definitly not saying couples should kiss before marriage. I have friend from university who had a girlfriend that he really liked but she wouldn't kiss him because she wanted to save her first kiss for the alter in order to gaurd her purity. Well, that was in 2003 and they're getting married in a few months. After their honeymoon, they'll probably say that dating for 6 years without kissing is totally worth the wait. What I'm saying is that kissing during dating has it's pros and cons, and I don't have the answer for how a couple is supposed to know if it's right for them.
It's not the outings I'd worry about. It's being at home on the sofa when you need supervision. Avoiding being completely alone is a great way to avoid sexual temptation, but it's also a great way to avoid important stuff that needs to be talked about privately. Furthermore, how does one find a chaperon who is willing to put in that kind of time. Couples need to spend a ton of time together before they get married. Finding a chaperon who's willing to put that kind of time in can be very difficult. I find that most good Christians I know balance their life between work, family/friends, serving God and taking care of themselves. Think of how many hours you think a couple should spend together before they get married. Now imagine another Christian taking that many hours away from one of those four areas of their life to supervise couples. Does that sound like a good idea?
No disagreement, but you understand that friendship before courtship is a very modern concept, right?
Sexual activities, obviously I agree. But as for kissing, well, I've been heard that there are big disadvantages to not kissing until your married. Some Christian couples have hid their lack of physical desire for the person they were engaged to by saying they didn't believe in kissing before marriage. It's like right now I'm watching Dr. Phil and he's talking to couples who are not having sex enough. That's a real problem for many, many married couples. And we, as singles, don't think of that as being a problem because we're so focused on our temptation to have sex ouside of marriage, it's hard to imagine that one day rolling over and going to sleep instead of having sex with our spouse could be temptation. Now, I'm definitly not saying couples should kiss before marriage. I have friend from university who had a girlfriend that he really liked but she wouldn't kiss him because she wanted to save her first kiss for the alter in order to gaurd her purity. Well, that was in 2003 and they're getting married in a few months. After their honeymoon, they'll probably say that dating for 6 years without kissing is totally worth the wait. What I'm saying is that kissing during dating has it's pros and cons, and I don't have the answer for how a couple is supposed to know if it's right for them.
It's not the outings I'd worry about. It's being at home on the sofa when you need supervision. Avoiding being completely alone is a great way to avoid sexual temptation, but it's also a great way to avoid important stuff that needs to be talked about privately. Furthermore, how does one find a chaperon who is willing to put in that kind of time. Couples need to spend a ton of time together before they get married. Finding a chaperon who's willing to put that kind of time in can be very difficult. I find that most good Christians I know balance their life between work, family/friends, serving God and taking care of themselves. Think of how many hours you think a couple should spend together before they get married. Now imagine another Christian taking that many hours away from one of those four areas of their life to supervise couples. Does that sound like a good idea?
No disagreement, but you understand that friendship before courtship is a very modern concept, right?
A
Can you please give me an example of courting in the Bible?
Again, can you give me a Biblical example of couples being friends before marriage. I'm not disagreeing with you, quite on the contrary, my point is that all this is not that simple. I mean, when you say that courting is Biblical you mean (I think) that it fits more with Biblical principles. This is why Christians differ so much on topics like this because it's not clear in the Bible.
See, I said I disagreed a lot with what was written on this thread, but I guess I don't disagree with it as much as I think that it's not that simple.
Again, can you give me a Biblical example of couples being friends before marriage. I'm not disagreeing with you, quite on the contrary, my point is that all this is not that simple. I mean, when you say that courting is Biblical you mean (I think) that it fits more with Biblical principles. This is why Christians differ so much on topics like this because it's not clear in the Bible.
See, I said I disagreed a lot with what was written on this thread, but I guess I don't disagree with it as much as I think that it's not that simple.
A
First of all, if I'm not mistaken I think you're the only married person on this thread. My opinion in dating and marriage was very, very different when I was young. It has been refined by listening to married people. I may think that I know more than those who think like I used to when I was 18, but I don't know as much as married people. What I'm basically saying is that we single people need to listen to you married people.
Secondly, when you say something is outdated... when one is told that their idea is outdated... Ok, in sociology we learned that about how there are more women in the workforce now. We learned there are three reasons for that they (women) work because they can, because they want to and because they have to. Now, to say that being a stay at home mom is old-fashioned. But to stay at home requires more than a mom who doesn't want to work for pay. When I was a kid we lived better on one income than my sister and brother-in-law do on two incomes. So many families who want an old-fashioned stay at home mom find they just can't afford it. On the other hand, I know a lot of people would say that me not having sex until I'm married, even though I'm already 28 and not married, they would likely say that's old-fashioned. But is it old-fashioned as in "no longer possible" or is it old-fashioned as in "no longer realistic"? Well, with all the diseases going around now, I think it's more important than ever to wait until marriage. Anyway, what I'm getting at is if you (Iraasuup) say courting is outdated, because you don't think it's wise in today's world, others who support that view of courting may think you mean it's an old-fashioned idea that's no longer popular.
Do you think Christian singles have an unrealistic view of what marriage will be like? I definitely think so, and I know lots of other couples who think so. What do you think?
Secondly, when you say something is outdated... when one is told that their idea is outdated... Ok, in sociology we learned that about how there are more women in the workforce now. We learned there are three reasons for that they (women) work because they can, because they want to and because they have to. Now, to say that being a stay at home mom is old-fashioned. But to stay at home requires more than a mom who doesn't want to work for pay. When I was a kid we lived better on one income than my sister and brother-in-law do on two incomes. So many families who want an old-fashioned stay at home mom find they just can't afford it. On the other hand, I know a lot of people would say that me not having sex until I'm married, even though I'm already 28 and not married, they would likely say that's old-fashioned. But is it old-fashioned as in "no longer possible" or is it old-fashioned as in "no longer realistic"? Well, with all the diseases going around now, I think it's more important than ever to wait until marriage. Anyway, what I'm getting at is if you (Iraasuup) say courting is outdated, because you don't think it's wise in today's world, others who support that view of courting may think you mean it's an old-fashioned idea that's no longer popular.
Do you think Christian singles have an unrealistic view of what marriage will be like? I definitely think so, and I know lots of other couples who think so. What do you think?
V
wow....
it is hard to read all that. I was unsure of what courting was in the first place. I have a friend who was courting but they were alone often and and kissed a lot and well. they ended up doing what was is meant to be saved for marriage. I don't know if they understood the meaning of courting.
I do believe in the no kissing before marriage, and having someone come with you on outings and stuff.
I am saving my first kiss for my wedding day.
I did date before but i was very young and thankfully i didn't kiss either of the guys i dated.
it is hard to read all that. I was unsure of what courting was in the first place. I have a friend who was courting but they were alone often and and kissed a lot and well. they ended up doing what was is meant to be saved for marriage. I don't know if they understood the meaning of courting.
I do believe in the no kissing before marriage, and having someone come with you on outings and stuff.
I am saving my first kiss for my wedding day.
I did date before but i was very young and thankfully i didn't kiss either of the guys i dated.
T
I think courting is unrealistic for the simple fact that women do not stay at home under their fathers until they are MARRIED like they used to...so how awkward would it be for a guy that the father does not know (because he lives far away from both his daughter and the expectant bachelor) to get a phone call from someone he does not know asking for a right to see or court his daughter...it just seems out of place...and I think most fathers would jump and be like my daughter is going to get proposed to or something and I did not even know she was seeing a guy...
But also, I do not think father's really can choose the spouse of their children very well...or perhaps they can, but it has got to be joint...I will pander on this...
God bless
tony
But also, I do not think father's really can choose the spouse of their children very well...or perhaps they can, but it has got to be joint...I will pander on this...
God bless
tony
S
i absolutely disagree with courting.......... you must have a chaperone???? i mean are you unable to control yourself around this person! If thats the case i would recommend tying yourself to a chair that has wheels on the bottom so your date or your court can just wheel you around. I think its an old fashioned out dated way of doing things.......... its called making good decisions here people......... dont put yourself in a situation where the two of you could have sex... and i guess according to all of you kissing is sex... so that means keep your mouths APART!
S
I have come up with a very practical list of ways to prevent yourself from doing anything sexual while dating or courting or whatever it is you wanna call it.
- Do not brush your teeth for several weeks
-Let your date know you have halatosis and its quite contageous
- Step in some kind of animal poop... this will insure that no one will wanna come close enough to you to do anything sexual.
- Wear one of your grandmas dresses while on your date
-dont chew gum... it draws attention to your mouth... and everyone KNOOOWS kissing leads DIRECTLY to sex!
These are the steps before you are to court someone I believe that you should first meet someone, talk to them, be friends with them, give them something to drink, ask them to clean out your car, pray for at LEAST one whole year.....NON STOP about this person... Talk to his parents and your parents about it......... give them something ELSE to drink..... Clean out the car TOGETHER (but not to closley now.. you dont want any kissin goin on over the vacuming out of old moldy fries stuck in between the seats) THEEEEEN you may court each other
- Do not brush your teeth for several weeks
-Let your date know you have halatosis and its quite contageous
- Step in some kind of animal poop... this will insure that no one will wanna come close enough to you to do anything sexual.
- Wear one of your grandmas dresses while on your date
-dont chew gum... it draws attention to your mouth... and everyone KNOOOWS kissing leads DIRECTLY to sex!
These are the steps before you are to court someone I believe that you should first meet someone, talk to them, be friends with them, give them something to drink, ask them to clean out your car, pray for at LEAST one whole year.....NON STOP about this person... Talk to his parents and your parents about it......... give them something ELSE to drink..... Clean out the car TOGETHER (but not to closley now.. you dont want any kissin goin on over the vacuming out of old moldy fries stuck in between the seats) THEEEEEN you may court each other
T
Sam I agree with you...
I think Christians have to trust both God and themselves (perhaps God with and within themselves) that they will not do anything wrong or immoral...I know that has worked for me...as any situation I am in....I commit it to God...then whatever happens happens, but its never been anything bad...sometimes silly or misleading...
I thought kissing was a sign of love and not sex...perhaps Judas was gay?!?
God bless
tony
I think Christians have to trust both God and themselves (perhaps God with and within themselves) that they will not do anything wrong or immoral...I know that has worked for me...as any situation I am in....I commit it to God...then whatever happens happens, but its never been anything bad...sometimes silly or misleading...
I thought kissing was a sign of love and not sex...perhaps Judas was gay?!?
God bless
tony