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What does the Law REALLY say?
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Kerry
Guest
The was given as fill gap measure, Until the cross. No man was capable of keeping the high Morales of God. In Fact Jesus said why do you call me good for no man is no not one. It is impossible, otherwise there would have been no need for the cross.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
one of many expression of love taught in scripture
Luke 7
44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
God is ♥
one of many expression of love taught in scripture
Luke 7
44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
God is ♥
Thus you are teaching the Psalmist lied and the content of what he is sharing by the Holy Spirit is cancelled because you determined it is?
Our only Sacrifice for sin is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross, being the Passover Lamb of God.
If one believes this, then onne must also believe that He died to give all the Gospel, the same Gospel He gave to Abraham, for there is no other Gospel.
All who possess some understanding know that obedience after salvation is our due, not payment for the free gift of grace.
I cannot accept the teaching in this particular Psalm, and so many otheres, by King David is a lie, since we know by his Psalms that he was well aware of the grace of God, and lived therein, otherwise he would never have written down the Psalms he was given by the Holy Spirit to write. Begin with the 32nd Psalm.
Psa 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
INCEST AND OTHER FORBIDDEN RELATIONSHIPS - Part 1 of 2
330 Leviticus 18:7 - No relations with one's mother.
The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
331 Leviticus 18:8 - No relations with one's father's wife.
The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
332 Leviticus 18:9 - No relations with one's sister.
The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
333 Leviticus 18:11 - No relations with step-sister.
The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
334 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's son's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
335 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's daughter's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
336 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
337 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
338 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her son's daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
339 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
340 Leviticus 18:12 - No relations with one's father's sister.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
341 Leviticus 18:13 - No relations with one's mother's sister.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
342 Leviticus 18:14 - No relations with wife of father's brother.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
343 Leviticus 18:15 - No relations with one's son's wife.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
344 Leviticus 18:16 - No relations with brother's wife.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
345 Leviticus 18:18 - No relations with sister of wife, during wife's life.
Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
330 Leviticus 18:7 - No relations with one's mother.
The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
331 Leviticus 18:8 - No relations with one's father's wife.
The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
332 Leviticus 18:9 - No relations with one's sister.
The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
333 Leviticus 18:11 - No relations with step-sister.
The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
334 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's son's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
335 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's daughter's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
336 Leviticus 18:10 - No relations with one's daughter.
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
337 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
338 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her son's daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
339 Leviticus 18:17 - No relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
340 Leviticus 18:12 - No relations with one's father's sister.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
341 Leviticus 18:13 - No relations with one's mother's sister.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
342 Leviticus 18:14 - No relations with wife of father's brother.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
343 Leviticus 18:15 - No relations with one's son's wife.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
344 Leviticus 18:16 - No relations with brother's wife.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
345 Leviticus 18:18 - No relations with sister of wife, during wife's life.
Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
Yes, and that includes what the Son has spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) years after he ascended, through the NT writers.
Loving God and our neighbor is all we have to do in the new covenant,
and we don't need a written code with myriads of instructions on how to do that,
for God has written the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) on our hearts,
giving us to know what is loving and what is not by his indwelling Holy Spirit.
It's about love more than it is about gratitude.
I obey because I love him, and not to repay a debt of gratitude.
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when dose a son fear, his father. but now , am i free ,to ask my father. (about anything) in the new covenant.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.2
dose the truth set you free, am i answerable to adam, now ie his sin.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased,grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
do i neeed to hide from father (god, )the same way adam and eve,(in fear) hid in the garden , now that one man has set the record straight(jesus)
do i need to hid from jesus, forgivness was it a new concept to a law, that stoned sinners.
This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.John 8:
"The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)
Someone is in the wrong covenant.
No more than is John when he wrote:
"the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)
i don't think I'm zealous in either place you're describing... so, your view is that Paul and James want the thousands of believing Jewish people around Jerusalem to be zealous just for the four laws?
INCEST AND OTHER FORBIDDEN RELATIONSHIPS - Final Part
346 Leviticus 18:19 - No relations with a menstruant.
Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
347 Leviticus 18:20 - No relations with another man's wife.
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
348 Leviticus 18:23 - Men may not lie with beasts.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
349 Leviticus 18:23 - Women may not lie with beasts.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
350 Leviticus 18:22 - A man may not lie carnally with another man.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
351 Leviticus 18:7 - A man may not lie carnally with his father.
The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
352 Leviticus 18:14 - A man may not lie carnally with his father's brother.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
353 Leviticus 18:6 - Not to be intimate with a kinswoman.
None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
354 Deuteronomy 23:2 – A mamzer may not have relations with a Jewess.
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
355 Deuteronomy 23:17 - No relations (harlotry) with a woman outside marriage.
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
356 Deuteronomy 24:4 - Remarry not your divorced wife after she has remarried.
Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
357 Deuteronomy 25:5 - Childless widow marry none except late husbands brother.
If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
358 Deuteronomy 22:29 - Divorce not wife, that he has to marry after raping her.
Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
359 Deuteronomy 22:19 - Divorce not wife, after falsely slandering her.
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
360 Deuteronomy 23:1 - Man unable of procreation (eunuch) not to marry Jewess.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
361 Leviticus 22:24 - Not to castrate a man or beast.
Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.
346 Leviticus 18:19 - No relations with a menstruant.
Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
347 Leviticus 18:20 - No relations with another man's wife.
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
348 Leviticus 18:23 - Men may not lie with beasts.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
349 Leviticus 18:23 - Women may not lie with beasts.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
350 Leviticus 18:22 - A man may not lie carnally with another man.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
351 Leviticus 18:7 - A man may not lie carnally with his father.
The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
352 Leviticus 18:14 - A man may not lie carnally with his father's brother.
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
353 Leviticus 18:6 - Not to be intimate with a kinswoman.
None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
354 Deuteronomy 23:2 – A mamzer may not have relations with a Jewess.
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
355 Deuteronomy 23:17 - No relations (harlotry) with a woman outside marriage.
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
356 Deuteronomy 24:4 - Remarry not your divorced wife after she has remarried.
Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
357 Deuteronomy 25:5 - Childless widow marry none except late husbands brother.
If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
358 Deuteronomy 22:29 - Divorce not wife, that he has to marry after raping her.
Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
359 Deuteronomy 22:19 - Divorce not wife, after falsely slandering her.
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
360 Deuteronomy 23:1 - Man unable of procreation (eunuch) not to marry Jewess.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
361 Leviticus 22:24 - Not to castrate a man or beast.
Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.
P
psychomom
Guest
y'know, Matt...you've been cracking me up through this whole thread.
for the most part sublimely ignoring what's going on,
just continuing on your mission.
sorry i interrupted...and go on.
for the most part sublimely ignoring what's going on,
just continuing on your mission.
sorry i interrupted...and go on.
y'know, Matt...you've been cracking me up through this whole thread.
for the most part sublimely ignoring what's going on,
just continuing on your mission.
sorry i interrupted...and go on.
Yeah, I've gotten caught up in the debate every so often, but I realized my main purpose was to simply state what the Law actually said, not get caught up in the same arguments about the law that have been made ad naseum.
And there's only 1 more section of Laws left, which I'll post in the morning.
Thanks for the observation, it's good to know someone noticed what I was trying to do!
B
BradC
Guest
We are commanded to believe, to walk by faith, to cleave to the promises, to pray, to minister grace, to preach the gospel, to win the lost, to lay our life down, to not think evil of any man, to share one another's burdens, to edify and build up one another, to give more honor to those who are less honorable, to walk in wisdom toward them who lack and are without, to be kind and tenderhearted, to esteem others better than ourselves...these are just some of the commandments that we have been given by our Lord through the Spirit in the body of Christ and NT church. These are the commandments that we follow Christ with and with those commandments we are to take up our cross and deny ourselves. You want more... there is plenty more. I don't know how you could have missed them. Oh well, I guess it happens when there is a vail over the heart.
B
BradC
Guest
JaumeJ, are these not part of the Torah as you suggest from your own definition? These commands are for the NT believer in the church where Christ is the head. Can't we relate and discuss these commands as part of the new covenant that we are under through grace. These are the things that make for peace and are part of the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. These are the commandments for the believers who are in Christ in this dispensation of grace. We as believers are obligated by faith to these commandments through the grace of God. They are not legislated and have no condemnation associated with them. They are rewarded if we practice them or we suffer loss if we neglect them. This is how the new covenant works for every believer in Christ. Are you a believer in Christ or not? If you are then you are under the new covenant of grace and it is to be your practice as it is for every believer, Jew or Gentile.
THE MONARCHY
362 Deuteronomy 17:15 - Not appointing a king who is not of the seed of Israel.
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
363 Deuteronomy 17:16 - A king not to accumulate an excess number of horses.
But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
364 Deuteronomy 17:17 - A king not taking many wives.
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
365 Deuteronomy 17:17 - A king may not amass great personal wealth.
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
362 Deuteronomy 17:15 - Not appointing a king who is not of the seed of Israel.
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
363 Deuteronomy 17:16 - A king not to accumulate an excess number of horses.
But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
364 Deuteronomy 17:17 - A king not taking many wives.
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
365 Deuteronomy 17:17 - A king may not amass great personal wealth.
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
Brad my friend, to cut to the chase, perhaps you can tell us what is terribly wrong with the Law of God?
This is the last of the 613 commands in the Torah/Law.
For those of you who took the time to read through all of them over the last couple of months or so (if anyone did), my hope is that you can see how the individual laws are not as burdensome as some would think. If anyone were to do any of the things commanded here apart from it being done as part of the Law, we would commend the person for doing them. However, when you make mention that these commands are part of the Law and that it was a part of your relationship with God, those people are criticized.
I think the Body of Messiah would be a whole lot better off if people made an effort to do these commands that God gave to His people.
For those of you who took the time to read through all of them over the last couple of months or so (if anyone did), my hope is that you can see how the individual laws are not as burdensome as some would think. If anyone were to do any of the things commanded here apart from it being done as part of the Law, we would commend the person for doing them. However, when you make mention that these commands are part of the Law and that it was a part of your relationship with God, those people are criticized.
I think the Body of Messiah would be a whole lot better off if people made an effort to do these commands that God gave to His people.
You are correct here Matt but the attitude of most is...
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
And I'll cut to the chase.
There is nothing wrong with the new covenant law of God (1Co 9:21),
which is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) without a written code of regulations,
because in the new covenant the indwelling Holy Spirit gives one to know in his heart (Jer 31:31)
what is loving and what is not loving, fulfilling all the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10).
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