Joyce Meyers- false teacher.
- Thread starter Deadtosin
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R
i am not a joyce meyer fan...but i am tired of people using misinformed or exaggerated arguments in a misguided attempt to discredit those who hold to doctrinal error...
all she basically did in this quotation was to paraphrase the text using -completely acceptable- alternate translations of the hebrew text...
the hebrew pronoun 'asher' most accurately means 'that which'...so 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' could be translated 'i am that which i am'...which could be paraphrased as 'i am what i am' which is a perfectly acceptable though logically awkward english rendering of the text...
similarly the hebrew 'ehyeh' can also mean 'i will be'...so 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' could just as easily be translated as 'i will be what i will be'...in fact this is an alternate translation is that is included in the footnotes of some bibles...
so she didn't really quote inaccurately...she gave a perfectly acceptable paraphrase of the text...one that is entirely valid if you know the hebrew of the original text...
all she basically did in this quotation was to paraphrase the text using -completely acceptable- alternate translations of the hebrew text...
the hebrew pronoun 'asher' most accurately means 'that which'...so 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' could be translated 'i am that which i am'...which could be paraphrased as 'i am what i am' which is a perfectly acceptable though logically awkward english rendering of the text...
similarly the hebrew 'ehyeh' can also mean 'i will be'...so 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' could just as easily be translated as 'i will be what i will be'...in fact this is an alternate translation is that is included in the footnotes of some bibles...
so she didn't really quote inaccurately...she gave a perfectly acceptable paraphrase of the text...one that is entirely valid if you know the hebrew of the original text...
She has a great testimony. Look where God has brought her from. Unforgiveness, bitterness,anger, sexual abuse from her Dad
Her husband prayed for a wife who needed help and he met her. She has came a long way. She teaches others from her
own life experiences and what the Lord has done in her life. To me that say's. this is what God can do. What he has done
for one, he will do for another. Should she be pointing out others sins or preaching what Jesus can do?
Her life is a testimony itself.
Isn't that what he does transforms lives?
Her husband prayed for a wife who needed help and he met her. She has came a long way. She teaches others from her
own life experiences and what the Lord has done in her life. To me that say's. this is what God can do. What he has done
for one, he will do for another. Should she be pointing out others sins or preaching what Jesus can do?
Her life is a testimony itself.
Isn't that what he does transforms lives?
E
It's great we can all "slam" certain people on here but let me ask a question. How many different people here on CC differ on our meaning of Eph 2:8,9? How many people come up with we need works to be justified and how many believe in justification by faith alone? Me myself am very vocal about justification by faith alone. How many of you disagree with me?
Sorry for the wall, that's just the way it came. This is only for people who are genuinely interested in Exodus 3:14
THE NAME OF GOD AS REVEALED IN EXODUS 3:14
An explanation of its meaning
K J Cronin
Completing the Interpretation of Exodus 3:14
- The Meaning of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh
According to the Explanation of the Meaning of the Name, I AM is the name of God. I AM is also one of the only two universally accepted literal translations of the word ehyeh as it occurs in Exodus 3:14. The word ehyeh of Exodus 3:14b can be identified in its context as a Divine name, and, because it is a first person singular of the verb, can be identified as the name by which God is known to Himself; His Personal name. Therefore, the Ehyeh of Exodus 3:14b is the Personal name of God and translates into English as I AM. Having established this, all that remains to be done in order to fully interpret the verse is to explain and translate the puzzling words of Exodus 3:14a; ehyeh asher ehyeh. This is undoubtedly the greatest challenge in Biblical interpretation. What follows is my answer to it. In Exodus 3:13 Moses asks God what he should say to the Israelites if they ask him for the name of the God who sent him to them. For the purpose of establishing how we would expect God to respond to this enquiry, I would ask you to imagine yourself in an identical exchange, but with you in the place of God. Imagine it is you who is sending Moses on a mission to the Israelites, and that Moses is asking you what he should say to the Israelites if they ask him for the name of the one who sent him to them. The most natural and reasonable way to begin your response to his enquiry would be with a declaration of the name that you wanted Moses to relay to them. This would be naturally and reasonably followed by your instruction to Moses that he was to inform the Israelites that the one who bears that name has sent him to them. Your response would therefore fall into two parts. The first part would be some form of self-identification employing the name that you wanted Moses to relay, and the second would be your instruction to him that he was to respond to their question with that name. A self-identification is normally comprised of some form of self-address and a name, and would normally take the form "My name is x" or "I am x". We will assume that you are of sufficient renown to employ the latter form of words; "I am x". If we now combine the two parts of your response, then you would most naturally and reasonably respond to Moses' question with: "I am x. Tell the Israelites that x has sent you to them". Now consider the exchange that took place between God and Moses in Exodus 3:13-15. Moses has asked God what he should say to the Israelites if they ask him for the name of the God who sent him to them. According to the above analysis, we would most naturally and most reasonably expect God to begin his response to Moses with a Self-identification that would employ the Divine name that he was to reveal to the Israelites. This would be naturally and reasonably followed by God's instruction to Moses that he was to inform the Israelites that the God who bears that name has sent him to them. We have already identified two forms of self-identification that God might employ – "My name is x" and "I am x" - but in the Hebrew Bible God identifies Himself according to the latter form of words with "I am YHWH". Therefore, if God were to identify Himself to Moses using His Personal name Ehyeh, we would most naturally and most reasonably expect His response to Moses' enquiry to be: "I am Ehyeh. Tell the Israelites that Ehyeh has sent you to them". However, the Divine Self-identification "I am YHWH" is rendered in Hebrew with a non-verbal clause, employing the personal pronoun ani or anoki, meaning 'I', and the name YHWH, but without the verb 'to be'. Examples of this are "ani YHWH" of Exodus 6:2 and "anoki YHWH" of Isaiah 43:11, both of which translate literally as "I YHWH" but are usually translated as "I am YHWH". If, therefore, this form of Self-identification were employed by God in declaring His Personal name Ehyeh, we could reasonably expect that declaration to take a corresponding form, i.e. 'ani Ehyeh' or 'anoki Ehyeh', but that is not what we find. Therefore, if God did commence His response to Moses with a Self-identification that employed His Personal name Ehyeh, then the words Ehyeh asher Ehyeh do not conform to the Hebrew construction that we would expect such a Divine Self-identification to take, and so we apparently still cannot account for the dual occurrence of ehyeh in ehyeh asher ehyeh. However, this puzzle can now be readily solved, and its solution leads us to the recognition of what I believe to be the most profound and remarkable words ever written, words so uniquely remarkable that I believe they can only be attributed to the historic architect of Judaism; the man we know as Moses. The solution to the puzzle that is Ehyeh asher Ehyeh is to be found in two key insights into the words of Exodus 3:14. The first is that in response to Moses' enquiry of Exodus 3:13, God first identifies Himself using His Personal name Ehyeh, as explained in the Textual Analysis of Exodus 3:13-15 in Part II of this website. The second is that Ehyeh asher Ehyeh is the Divine Self-identificationwhen God identifies Himself using His Personal name Ehyeh instead of His proper name YHWH. The explanation for this is as follows. A self-identification would normally be comprised of some form of self-address and a name, such as "I am x" or "my name is x". A self-address is a statement born of self-reflection, the purpose and effect of which is to bring to awareness knowledge of the one doing the reflecting. Therefore, the purpose and effect of Divine Self-reflection is to bring to God's awareness the knowledge He has of His Personal existence. On the occasion of God revealing to Moses His Personal name Ehyeh/I AM, it is reasonable to expect the Divine Self-reflection to have been perfect because the Personal name is perfect, as established in Part 7 of the Explanation of the Meaning of the Name. This informs us that on the occasion of God revealing to Moses His Personal name Ehyeh/I AM, the perfect Divine Self-reflection would have been identical to the perfect knowledge that God has of His Personal existence. The following interim conclusion ends Part 6 of the Explanation of the Meaning of the Name: "'I AM' is the articulation in God of the knowledge He has of His Personal existence". Therefore, on the occasion of God revealing to Moses His Personal name Ehyeh/I AM, the perfect Divine Self-reflection was also articulated as Ehyeh/I AM. This in turn means that God's perfect Self-address either is or at least incorporates the Divine Self-reflection Ehyeh/I AM. However, because Ehyeh/I AM is recognisable as a complete form of Divine Self-address in Hebrew as in English, there is no place for the asher in this Self-address. Therefore Ehyeh/I AM is the Divine Self-address when God identifies Himself using His Personal name Ehyeh/I AM instead of His proper name YHWH. We can thus confirm that the Divine Self-identification employing the Personal name of God Ehyeh ought to include the twofold declaration of the word Ehyeh that occurs in Ehyeh asher Ehyeh, and we can thus confirm that Ehyeh asher Ehyeh is the Divine Self-identification when God identifies Himselfusing His Personal name Ehyeh instead of His proper name YHWH, and the second key insight is confirmed. Moreover, we can confirm this even without translating the asher, because it is inconceivable that there could be a second meaning being intentionally conveyed in the twofold Ehyeh of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. As to which of the two Ehyeh is the Self-address and which is the name, the answer is that they are identical and so they are both Self-address and name. However, if for any reason they are to be thought of as one or the other, for example in the writing of a paraphrase, then I would suggest thinking of the first Ehyeh as the Self address and the second as the name, because this is the word order of the most characteristic of Biblical Divine Self-identifications, "ani/anoki YHWH". How this might manifest in a paraphrase will be seen below. As for the asher, it is described in the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon as a "sign of relation" (BDB, p.81), which is its precise function in Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Its presence has the effect of bringing the two Ehyeh into an unspecified relationship, and it is thus a generic sign of the existence of a relationship between them. Because it is generic, the asher has no exactly corresponding word in English (BDB, p.83), and so we must search instead for an English relative word or phrase that fits the context. Having undertaken such a search, I cannot identify any lexically acceptable English relative word or phrase that when emplaced in "I AM asher I AM" makes of it a recognisable Divine Self-identification. For that reason, I believe that the nuance of meaning in the asher of Exodus 3:14 is untranslatable into lexically acceptable English. Which brings me to the translation of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh, and first to the literal translation. Because the asher is untranslatable, it makes most sense to retain it in the literal English translation of Exodus 3:14, where it will mean the same to the Hebrew reader as to the Hebrew non-reader who knows the grammatical purpose that it serves. I would therefore propose that Ehyeh asher Ehyeh should read as follows in literal English translation: "I AM asher I AM". Alternatively, if Ehyeh asher Ehyeh is to be represented in paraphrase, then the most accurate such paraphrase is "I am I AM", which corresponds to the Divine Self-identification "I am YHWH", and which I believe precisely articulates the meaning of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh.
With these translations, and equipped with a comprehensive understanding of why it is that Ehyeh asher Ehyeh translates in this way and what it means, I believe the puzzle that was Exodus 3:14 has now been solved. The words that God addresses to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15, in response to Moses' enquiry of Exodus 3:13, can now be confidently understood as equivalent to the following simple statement: "I am I AM. Tell the Israelites that I AM has sent you to them, and tell them also that they are henceforth to address Me and refer to Me by My proper name YHWH." In summary, therefore, the words Ehyeh asher Ehyeh of Exodus 3:14a are God's Self-identification to Moses, just as they are understood in the Septuagint, and the absolute Ehyeh of Exodus 3:14b is the Personal name of God and translates into English as I AM. The two Ehyeh of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh are identical in meaning, as proposed by Maimonides and Sarna, but they have complementary functions within the Self-identification, as explained above. And so to the final step on this exegetical journey, which is to write Exodus 3:14 in the two versions that I would propose. First with Ehyeh asher Ehyeh in a partial but literal translation:
Then God said to Moses, "I AM asher I AM".
And He Said, "Thus shall you say to the Sons of Israel: 'I AM has sent me to you'".
And second with Ehyeh asher Ehyeh in a paraphrase that corresponds to the Self-identification "I am YHWH": Then God said to Moses, "I amI AM". And He Said, "Thus shall you say to the Sons of Israel: 'I AM has sent me to you'".
And He said, "Thus shall you say to the Sons of Israel: 'I AM has sent me to you'".
it can also be read with it's proper breaks here The Meaning of Ehyeh asher Ehyeh
Hi sister 
I hope you are having a lovely evening the weather here in north Texas just really cooled off-It is my favorite!
I want to address something. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you basically saying that because she professes to be a christian and has a testimony that it means God has transformed her?
The reason I ask is that we are warned about wolves in sheeps clothing so that clearly means that these false teachers will resemble the flock.
I hope you are having a lovely evening the weather here in north Texas just really cooled off-It is my favorite!I want to address something. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you basically saying that because she professes to be a christian and has a testimony that it means God has transformed her?
The reason I ask is that we are warned about wolves in sheeps clothing so that clearly means that these false teachers will resemble the flock.
Joyce Meyer's life was transformed not by God, but by her figuring out how to fleece the sheep with motivational speeches and by telling them what they want to hear (ditto for Olsteen, et. al.), instead of telling them what God wants them to hear. And, if her life were transformed by God, she's step aside and let a man with theological training pastor and she'd find some other way to use her gift of gab. She's not qualified to be a pastor. She doesn't know the Bible. I don't think God's plan was for her and her second husband to own a private jet and cars that cost six-figures.
She repeats over and over what a horrible life she has had. That's exactly what a con-artist would do. I have no reason to believe any of it. And, even if true, she uses it to manipulate her audiences. It doesn't make any of her preaching sound theology. But, because she says what she preaches worked for her, you're suppose to conclude that her preaching is sound. Remember, it only works for her because you're sending her your money.
The only thing you'll hear from my preacher in his sermons about his past personal life are stories that illustrate a point he's trying to share. While I'm sure the stories are true, the truth of them is irrelevant, because the stories aren't designed to build my confidence in his claims. Get it?
You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to live in sin and have the hope of Heaven. That's what she preaches, admit you're a sinner, but go on sinning, and you're saved. People gobble it up. It's like the old Roman Catholic church selling indulgences, only better.
Joyce Meyer's teaching seems to be aimed mostly at women. It deals with issues that women deal with and the clips I've seen show her audience full of women, primarily.
I don't have my headphones with me, so I'm just commenting on what you wrote. I do specifically remember in Hebrew class being taught that either the tetragrammaton or the longer name of God written out in the passage could be translated, "I will be Who I will be." She probably read that in a commentary.
If you are one of those KJV-onlyists, you might not accept that, but you shouldn't be pointing fingers at people for being false teachers over such light criteria if you are.
The part about not telling Moses anything is concerning.
Romans 9 deals with God raising up Moses and hardening him. But the pot has no right to say to the potter, "Why have you made me thus?"
Applying it to feet and hips is not the most profound application, but I wouldn't say it is out of line with the tradition of Biblical interpretation in the Bible itself. Along the lines of the greater-to-lesser argument, if Pharoah had no right to complain that he was hardened, then you have no right to complain about being made with big feet or whatever else. This is no basis for calling someone a false teacher.
Also, remember that 'false teachers' in the Bible is used to refer to those who are leading others into condemnation, not those who make light, but true, points off of heavy scripture passages.
The passage does talk about God using the weak things. She focused in on that and not the rest of the passage. But that's a valid point. You seem to be accusing her of being a false teacher based on her taking a light, but true, point out of a heavy passage. That's not a solid basis for your accusation. She may not have taught the way you like or as deeply as you like, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Jesus thanked God that He had not revealed some things to the wise and prudent, but had revealed them unto babes. The fact that God uses the weak and those considered unwise is a valid enough point to stop and consider.
She was talking about questioning God in a complaining way earlier, complaining about hip size or whatever.
I don't have my headphones with me, so I'm just commenting on what you wrote. I do specifically remember in Hebrew class being taught that either the tetragrammaton or the longer name of God written out in the passage could be translated, "I will be Who I will be." She probably read that in a commentary.
If you are one of those KJV-onlyists, you might not accept that, but you shouldn't be pointing fingers at people for being false teachers over such light criteria if you are.
The part about not telling Moses anything is concerning.
Romans 9 deals with God raising up Moses and hardening him. But the pot has no right to say to the potter, "Why have you made me thus?"
Applying it to feet and hips is not the most profound application, but I wouldn't say it is out of line with the tradition of Biblical interpretation in the Bible itself. Along the lines of the greater-to-lesser argument, if Pharoah had no right to complain that he was hardened, then you have no right to complain about being made with big feet or whatever else. This is no basis for calling someone a false teacher.
Also, remember that 'false teachers' in the Bible is used to refer to those who are leading others into condemnation, not those who make light, but true, points off of heavy scripture passages.
The passage does talk about God using the weak things. She focused in on that and not the rest of the passage. But that's a valid point. You seem to be accusing her of being a false teacher based on her taking a light, but true, point out of a heavy passage. That's not a solid basis for your accusation. She may not have taught the way you like or as deeply as you like, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Jesus thanked God that He had not revealed some things to the wise and prudent, but had revealed them unto babes. The fact that God uses the weak and those considered unwise is a valid enough point to stop and consider.
She was talking about questioning God in a complaining way earlier, complaining about hip size or whatever.
I imagine any man there was dragged.
Romans 9:20 is not about someone being unhappy with their feet and hips. Everything she teaches is a misrepresentation, even if just a little off. Joyce Meyer doesn't just take some verses (from a poor translation) and apply them in ways not exactly meant by the Bible, but that she never gets them right. Her "little off" is the best it gets, and it's pervasive in her teachings. And, sometimes she's not a little off, but extremely off (e.g. her statement of faith calling for admission of being a sinner, without mention of repentance.)
I don't believe show knows the Bible (she lacks a theological education). And, I don't think she has an interest in what the Bible really teaches. Her interest is only to have her audience believe she's interested in what the Bible teaches, while she tickles their ears (being a prosperity preacher is just one of the examples of this). That's why she's a false teacher. And, she is not qualified to be a pastor, even if she is sincere.
Romans 9:20 is not about someone being unhappy with their feet and hips. Everything she teaches is a misrepresentation, even if just a little off. Joyce Meyer doesn't just take some verses (from a poor translation) and apply them in ways not exactly meant by the Bible, but that she never gets them right. Her "little off" is the best it gets, and it's pervasive in her teachings. And, sometimes she's not a little off, but extremely off (e.g. her statement of faith calling for admission of being a sinner, without mention of repentance.)
I don't believe show knows the Bible (she lacks a theological education). And, I don't think she has an interest in what the Bible really teaches. Her interest is only to have her audience believe she's interested in what the Bible teaches, while she tickles their ears (being a prosperity preacher is just one of the examples of this). That's why she's a false teacher. And, she is not qualified to be a pastor, even if she is sincere.
Deadtosin, the wolf is everywhere, and if we want to be able to recognise him?
It is only by looking always to Jesus, living as he has called us to, walking as He walked, so we may see His face.
No matter who it is that speaks or teaches, they will have flaws, it is the deceptions and powers of evil we need to battle.
And the only way to be fully armed and sheilded is in Jesus, keeping our eyes on Him.
Do speak to false teachings, for we are called to this, and it is a good work.
but do not fall into judging any person,action yes, but person? No, for we all fail, and such judgement will be set upon us if we do.
But more important, teach all to keep there eyes on Jesus, to bring any teaching or word to Jesus, for in doing so, that person will learn from Jesus, and be able to recieive all dicernment and peace.
It is because we all are weak that Jesus took the cross, to free us from sin.
We need to remeber this when ever we examine anothers actions.
Simply because, we know the only reason we will pass any examination, is because we are covered by grace.
Consider this, if Joyce were to read your post here, would she be more open to hearing what you are saying? if you are critiqueing her, or the message?
In Jesus, God bless
pickles
It is only by looking always to Jesus, living as he has called us to, walking as He walked, so we may see His face.
No matter who it is that speaks or teaches, they will have flaws, it is the deceptions and powers of evil we need to battle.
And the only way to be fully armed and sheilded is in Jesus, keeping our eyes on Him.
Do speak to false teachings, for we are called to this, and it is a good work.
but do not fall into judging any person,action yes, but person? No, for we all fail, and such judgement will be set upon us if we do.
But more important, teach all to keep there eyes on Jesus, to bring any teaching or word to Jesus, for in doing so, that person will learn from Jesus, and be able to recieive all dicernment and peace.
It is because we all are weak that Jesus took the cross, to free us from sin.
We need to remeber this when ever we examine anothers actions.
Simply because, we know the only reason we will pass any examination, is because we are covered by grace.
Consider this, if Joyce were to read your post here, would she be more open to hearing what you are saying? if you are critiqueing her, or the message?
In Jesus, God bless
pickles
Some say Joyce is a false prophet, wouldn't it be better to look at her and consider all the people she has helped lead to Christ Jesus? C-mon! For alot of years i watched joyce, creflo, kenneth, that whole oral roberts crew. john haggee was one of my fav's, i liked his hard, intollerant attitude, and jessie duplantis cracked me up, those was my 2 fav's. Nowadays they are not on like they use to be, or i might still watch them, i'm not saying i agree with all they say, but they was involved in building my faith, and learning in the Word. Any body would have to admit all them teachers had somethings good to say. In Gods Word it says what will happen, to those that oppress the hireling, and rob the widow, and so on. So lets have compassion for someone we feel is doing this, instead of bad mouthing.
