Baptism symbol only ?

[newbirth]

No, but you certainly are making some SERIOUS mistakes in YOUR interpretation of the Scriptures.

AND you have sunk to the level of calling us liars. What it next? Casting Stones?

All we have done is shared the TRUTH with you every step of the way, inviting you to receive GOD the Son as your LORD and Master.

OH and by the way, that calling us liars, certainly was a SIN.

Matthew 5:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And you called us liars, my oh, my; and you said you do not sin.

Isaiah 5:20-21 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!


We showed you Scriptures to valid what we believe and all you did was turn a blind eye to it.

when you change the word of God you become a liar...where did I call you a fool?

We showed you Scriptures to valid what we believe and all you did was turn a blind eye to it.

and I told you what you believe is doctrine of man...you have distorted the truth....as you are doing now...
show me where I said I do not sin that I may ask God's forgiveness...maybe you did not understand...I said I do not practise sin...there is a difference...

 

[VCO]

when you change the word of God you become a liar...where did I call you a fool?

and I told you what you believe is doctrine of man...you have distorted the truth....as you are doing now...
show me where I said I do not sin that I may ask God's forgiveness...maybe you did not understand...I said I do not practise sin...there is a difference...

Yes you would have made a good Democratic Politician with all the double talk, positional manevering, and political correctness. But that really brings us to an end of debating one another.

You have a good life, because I am not convinced that you will like the hereafter.

Matthew 10:14-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I assure you: It will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

 

[PACEMAKER]

when you change the word of God you become a liar...where did I call you a fool?

and I told you what you believe is doctrine of man...you have distorted the truth....as you are doing now...
show me where I said I do not sin that I may ask God's forgiveness...maybe you did not understand...I said I do not practise sin...there is a difference...

Newbirth, I was just wondering....
Would I have to Attend on Sunday Mornings;
the same style of Worship Services that you attend

If Not... Would that be a false Religion???

If Not .. would my "water baptism" be Biblically Correct ???

Would A Southern Baptist be OK??

Would A Methodist Church be OK ??

Would A Catholic Church be OK ??

If these are NOT OK ; then which one ??

Still have previous post that you have Not replied to

Would like Honest Answers and Not what you have been told to say...

Just quoting Acts 2:38 is NOT an Answer to All Questions

Just keep in mind that "The Word of GOD" does NOT contradict itself..

Example; If you Believe that Jesus Christ Died on the Cross about 2000 years ago
For ALL OF OUR SINS... Past and Future

AND

You Believe that "water baptism" takes away your sins

Both can Not be Right...... That would be a Contradiction to Scriptures

You Choose Gods Only SONS Blood
OR
Is There Power in the Local River water??

Is your GOD Not "BIG" ENOUGH to Know your Heart ???

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth, I was just wondering....
Would I have to Attend on Sunday Mornings;
the same style of Worship Services that you attend

only you can know that
John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If Not... Would that be a false Religion???

only you can know that
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

If Not .. would my "water baptism" be Biblically Correct ???

only you can know that
Acts 2:38-39American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

Would A Southern Baptist be OK??

Would A Methodist Church be OK ??

Would A Catholic Church be OK ??

Christ said he will build his Church...I did not see a label...but I see a standard....the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Do those have that standard?Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If these are NOT OK ; then which one ??

why ask me to judge when the word of God is the standard by which we all judge ourselves?

Still have previous post that you have Not replied to

maybe I have not got around to them or they are not worth answering...

Would like Honest Answers and Not what you have been told to say...

I cannot help but speak the word...

Just quoting Acts 2:38 is NOT an Answer to All Questions

maybe not all but it sure answers one....

Just keep in mind that "The Word of GOD" does NOT contradict itself..

Example; If you Believe that Jesus Christ Died on the Cross about 2000 years ago
For ALL OF OUR SINS... Past and Future

AND

You Believe that "water baptism" takes away your sins

Both can Not be Right...... That would be a Contradiction to Scriptures

Christ died for our sins that gives him the authority to say what we must do for them to be remitted...

Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Acts 2:38-39American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

You Choose Gods Only SONS Blood
OR
Is There Power in the Local River water??

Is your GOD Not "BIG" ENOUGH to Know your Heart ???

don't just choose him, hear him and obey him...Matthew 17:5

While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.


James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

I will have a look again at the posts I have not responded to.....

 

[PACEMAKER]

Newbirth, here is what I Know..

True religion is neither rules-based nor ritual-based.

True religion is a personal relationship with God

through Jesus Christ Alone..



Two things that all religions hold are; that humanity is somehow separated from God
and needs to be reconciled to Him.



False religion seeks to solve this problem by
observing rules and rituals.


True religion solves the problem by recognizing that
only God could rectify the separation,
and that He has done so.


True religion recognizes the following:

1. We have all sinned and are therefore separated
from God (Romans 3:23).

2. If not rectified, the just penalty for sin is death and eternal separation
from God after death (Romans 6:23).

3. God came to us in the Person of Jesus Christ and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve, and rose from the dead to demonstrate that His death was a sufficient sacrifice
(Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

4. If we receive Jesus as the Savior, trusting His death as the full payment for our sins, we are forgiven, saved, redeemed, reconciled, and justified with God

(John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9).

True religion does have rules and rituals,

but there is a crucial difference.



In true religion, the rules and rituals are observed out of Gratitude
for the salvation God has provided –



NOT in an effort to obtain that salvation.


True religion, which is Biblical Christianity, has rules to obey (do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not lie, etc.)

And rituals to observe (water baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper / Communion).

Observance of these rules and rituals is not what makes a person right with God.
Rather, these rules and rituals are the RESULT of the relationship with God,
by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone as the Savior.


False religion is doing things (rules and rituals) in order to try to earn God’s favor.


True religion is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby having a right relationship with God –
and then doing things (rules and rituals)
out of love for God and desire to grow closer to Him.



Newbirth. By Reading the Answers that you have given on these previous post.

Which Religion do you have????

 

[mailmandan]

Newbirth,, I have heard of many lives being changed from darkness to Light .
WHY???
Because of Jesus Christ

Amen! Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

REPENTANCE IS WHAT FORGIVES OUR SINS

Acts 3:19New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]19[/SUP]Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Just like in Acts 2:38 Because of Our REPENTANCE; our sins are washed away

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said, "One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received." Amen!

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth, here is what I Know..

True religionis neither rules-based nor ritual-based.

True religion is a personal relationship with God

through Jesus Christ Alone..



Two things that all religions hold are; that humanity is somehow separated from God
and needs to be reconciled to Him.



False religion seeks to solve this problem by
observing rules and rituals.


True religion solves the problem by recognizing that
only God could rectify the separation,
and that He has done so.


True religion recognizes the following:

1. We have all sinned and are therefore separated
from God (Romans 3:23).

2. If not rectified, the just penalty for sin is death and eternal separation
from God after death (Romans 6:23).

3. God came to us in the Person of Jesus Christ and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve, and rose from the dead to demonstrate that His death was a sufficient sacrifice
(Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

4. If we receive Jesus as the Savior, trusting His death as the full payment for our sins, we are forgiven, saved, redeemed, reconciled, and justified with God

(John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9).

True religion does have rules and rituals,

but there is a crucial difference.



In true religion, the rules and rituals are observed out of Gratitude
for the salvation God has provided –



NOT in an effort to obtain that salvation.


True religion, which is Biblical Christianity, has rules to obey (do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not lie, etc.)

And rituals to observe (water baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper / Communion).

Observance of these rules and rituals is not what makes a person right with God.
Rather, these rules and rituals are the RESULT of the relationship with God,
by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone as the Savior.


False religion is doing things (rules and rituals) in order to try to earn God’s favor.


True religion is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby having a right relationship with God –
and then doing things (rules and rituals)
out of love for God and desire to grow closer to Him.



Newbirth. By Reading the Answers that you have given on these previous post.

Which Religion do you have????

where did this come from? all I did was quote a few verses and you are off on a tangent...I just answered you according to your folly .......and what is this about true religion? I made no mention of true religion ...the scripture says
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

your response seems to indicate you follow religion...so don't ask me what religion I have...I have Christ....

 

[newbirth]

Amen! Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said, "One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received." Amen!

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*

Mailmandan there is no need to regurgitate those long post like Atwood it only proves you are not convinced of what you believe....you don't believe Jesus said.......those who believe and are baptised shall be saved... then you don't believe Jesus.... its that simple......no need to go into clause and parenthetical and AT Robertson...

 

[mailmandan]

Mailmandan there is no need to regurgitate those long post like Atwood it only proves you are not convinced of what you believe....you don't believe Jesus said.......those who believe and are baptised shall be saved... then you don't believe Jesus.... its that simple......no need to go into clause and parenthetical and AT Robertson...

My post was addressed to Pacemaker and I am thoroughly convinced of what I believe. I've heard enough of your nonsense and I do believe what Jesus said. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe shall be condemned. Jesus never said that whoever is not baptized shall be condemned, as you teach. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation (dipped or condemned), then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. You need to harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion. No need for you to continue twisting the scriptures in order to accommodate your biased theology.

 

[dberrie2000]

My post was addressed to Pacemaker and I am thoroughly convinced of what I believe. I've heard enough of your nonsense and I do believe what Jesus said. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe shall be condemned. Jesus never said that whoever is not baptized shall be condemned, as you teach. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief.

What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins is not an integral component to belief?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's God's salvational grace for our obedience.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation (dipped or condemned), then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES.

Where do you find an engine in the following terms?

Car, automobile, vehicle?

The fact is--those terms include all the components that make them up--that is how language works. What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism is not an integral component to belief, faith?

Do you believe that the term "faith" is a reference to dead faith?

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[newbirth]

My post was addressed to Pacemaker and I am thoroughly convinced of what I believe. I've heard enough of your nonsense and I do believe what Jesus said. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe shall be condemned. Jesus never said that whoever is not baptized shall be condemned, as you teach. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation (dipped or condemned), then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. You need to harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion. No need for you to continue twisting the scriptures in order to accommodate your biased theology.

if your post was to Pacemaker alone then you should have sent a PM ...there you go again...believe covers everything Jesus taught...not just some things .... if one does not believe in Christ why would the be baptised in his name? one is not baptised because one does not believe...that is not rocket science ....if you believe it includes water baptism....if you don't there is no reason to mention it...it is like a man saying He believes in Jesus but he does not believe Jesus is the Son of God

 

[mailmandan]

What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins is not an integral component to belief?

As I already explained in post #526, In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?


Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?


Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?


Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?


Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's God's salvational grace for our obedience.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

That is God's salvational grace for our faith. Obedience which follows is works and we are not saved by works.

Romans 5:2 - through whom also we have access by faith into grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Where do you find an engine in the following terms?

Car, automobile, vehicle?

The fact is--those terms include all the components that make them up--that is how language works. What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism is not an integral component to belief, faith?

Repentance/faith precedes water baptism. You don't water baptize unrepentant unbelievers in order to make them repentant believers, but BECAUSE they are repentant believers. These Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 already believed, received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues BEFORE WATER BAPTISM (vs. 48). In Acts 11:17, they received the gift of the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE WATER BAPTISM. Peter goes on to say this is repentance unto life. Where is your evidence that baptism is an integral component of faith or in other words, the essence of faith?

Do you believe that the term "faith" is a reference to dead faith?

No and works don't cause our faith to become alive, they SHOW that our faith is alive (James 2:18). In James 2:14, we read of one who "says he has faith" but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. Don't put the cart before the horse. Our faith is made alive in Christ by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:5-9) then we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works and not the other way around. You have the tail wagging the dog.

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Gr pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root. A dead faith does not produce good works in order to become a living faith but BECAUSE it's a living faith, just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree, but BECAUSE it's a living tree.

 

[mailmandan]

...there you go again...believe covers everything Jesus taught...not just some things....

You seem to make no distinction between faith and good works. You simply wrap up faith and works in a package then simply stamp faith on the package, making no distinction between the root of salvation (faith) and the fruit of salvation (works), which equates to a perverted gospel of works salvation.

if one does not believe in Christ why would the be baptised in his name?

There are plenty of people who may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ, yet they don't truly believe/trust exclusively in Him for salvation that go on to get water baptized anyway, trusting in their baptism and other works to save them instead of trusting in Christ alone to save them.

one is not baptised because one does not believe...that is not rocket science ....if you believe it includes water baptism....

Believing is not water baptism and believing precedes water baptism and we are saved through believing in Him. It's just that simple. Water baptism follows saving belief in Christ (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

if you don't there is no reason to mention it...it is like a man saying He believes in Jesus but he does not believe Jesus is the Son of God

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also believe "mental assent" that there is "one God" and they also believe that Jesus is the Son of God, BUT they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Mere "mental assent" belief in Christ joined with "trust and reliance in water and works" for salvation is not saving faith IN CHRIST. Either we are trusting 100% in Christ to save us or else we are 100% lost.

 

[PACEMAKER]

where did this come from? all I did was quote a few verses and you are off on a tangent...I just answered you according to your folly .......and what is this about true religion? I made no mention of true religion ...the scripture says
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

your response seems to indicate you follow religion...so don't ask me what religion I have...I have Christ....

Newbirth, Again I gave you a choice of a simple question that you should Honestly be able to answer.

Again no answer

have you noticed that you answer questions with other questions????

You will never get the TRUE answer that way..

You are just repeating what you have been told to say..

You quoted a verse about "pure religion "

Do you have this 100 % of your time???

If you fall short of this command;

how do you ask forgiveness from God ??

 

[PACEMAKER]

where did this come from? all I did was quote a few verses and you are off on a tangent...I just answered you according to your folly .......and what is this about true religion? I made no mention of true religion ...the scripture says
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

your response seems to indicate you follow religion...so don't ask me what religion I have...I have Christ....

Newbirth,, you said "your response seems to indicate you follow religion...so don't ask me what religion I have...I have Christ...."

Is that CHRIST ALONE
OR
CHRIST PLUS WATER BAPTISM ???

Have you ever seen someone that was "water baptized"
BUT Never showed a Born Again Life Style??

Is that person Saved??

 

[newbirth]

You seem to make no distinction between faith and good works. You simply wrap up faith and works in a package then simply stamp faith on the package, making no distinction between the root of salvation (faith) and the fruit of salvation (works), which equates to a perverted gospel of works salvation.

because faith without works is dead

There are plenty of people who may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ, yet they don't truly believe/trust exclusively in Him for salvation that go on to get water baptized anyway, trusting in their baptism and other works to save them instead of trusting in Christ alone to save them.

That is why the scripture says those who believe and is baptised shall be saved....

Believing is not water baptism and believing precedes water baptism and we are saved through believing in Him. It's just that simple. Water baptism follows saving belief in Christ (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

like I said before believing in Christ is believing and doing everything he said to do

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also believe "mental assent" that there is "one God" and they also believe that Jesus is the Son of God, BUT they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Mere "mental assent" belief in Christ joined with "trust and reliance in water and works" for salvation is not saving faith IN CHRIST. Either we are trusting 100% in Christ to save us or else we are 100% lost.

there is no way anyone is attaining eternal life...without trust and reliance in Christ who said to be baptised....and that we are created unto good works...

The saga continues.........

 

[PACEMAKER]

What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins is not an integral component to belief?

dberrie2000; IF you Believe with ALL your Heart that Jesus Christ
died on the Cross about 2000 years ago
For ALL your sins.
Just what sins does "water baptism" wash away???

Is their Power in the water???

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's God's salvational grace for our obedience.

This is the way language works
Could you give me your Definition of the word GRACE???



Where do you find an engine in the following terms?

Car, automobile, vehicle?

The fact is--those terms include all the components that make them up--that is how language works. What is your evidence that repentance and water baptism is not an integral component to belief, faith?

dberrie2000, The FACT IS You Can have a car without an engine ;
But it wont run to good haha

"Car, automobile, vehicle" are NOT very good Comparison to what we are talking about.
We are talking about ONE topic "water baptism"
They are Many parts and choices that make up a car, auto, vehicle...

Are you putting your faith in Christ PLUS "water baptism"
as a Requirement for ones Salvation

Do you believe that the term "faith" is a reference to dead faith?

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

dberrie2000, This passage of scripture in James is speaking to Already Saved Christians
No where in the book of James is "water baptism" is mentioned

This passage below is plainly telling us HOW We Are SAVED..
[h=1]Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—

and this is not from yourselves, ( "water baptism" is something that YOU DO..)

it is the gift of God—
Would you also agree with this definition ?

A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..



[SUP]9 [/SUP]not by works, "water baptism" takes physical effort to accomplish by
YOU AND ANOTHER PERSON.. it is a WORK

so that no one can boast.
So, when you die you are going to tell Jesus Christ that you Believed that
your "water baptism" washed Away Your Sins??

I Will Take GRACE and MERCY Any day over "water baptism"
as A Requirement for Salvation..

 

[newbirth]

dberrie2000, This passage of scripture in James is speaking to Already Saved Christians
No where in the book of James is "water baptism" is mentioned

This passage below is plainly telling us HOW We Are SAVED..
Ephesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—

and this is not from yourselves, ( "water baptism" is something that YOU DO..)

it is the gift of God—
Would you also agree with this definition ?

A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..



[SUP]9 [/SUP]not by works, "water baptism" takes physical effort to accomplish by
YOU AND ANOTHER PERSON.. it is a WORK

so that no one can boast.
So, when you die you are going to tell Jesus Christ that you Believed that
your "water baptism" washed Away Your Sins??

I Will Take GRACE and MERCY Any day over "water baptism"
as A Requirement for Salvation..

the question is ...do you believe faith without works is dead?....and since it is by grace through faith....show me your faith without works.....and I will show you my faith by my works.....I am putting this out to all who say they believe in Christ ...show me your faith without works......

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth,, you said "your response seems to indicate you follow religion...so don't ask me what religion I have...I have Christ...."

Is that CHRIST ALONE
OR
CHRIST PLUS WATER BAPTISM ???

Have you ever seen someone that was "water baptized"
BUT Never showed a Born Again Life Style??

Is that person Saved??

Christ said believe in him...and he said to be baptised.. and I believe him...what is wrong with that...did he tell you not to be baptised?

what does someone that was water baptised,but never show a born again lifestyle have to do with me being baptised....there are those who say they are born again and continue to live in sin...and Christ also said sin no more...people depart from the faith...

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth, Again I gave you a choice of a simple question that you should Honestly be able to answer.

Again no answer

have you noticed that you answer questions with other questions????

You will never get the TRUE answer that way..

You are just repeating what you have been told to say..

You quoted a verse about "pure religion "

Do you have this 100 % of your time???

If you fall short of this command;

how do you ask forgiveness from God ??

yes I speak that which I have heard...and it is also written...the point is not what I have 100% of the time...but what the word of God says...where does it say that is a command? It is written for the pretenders who proclaim to be religious and set standards in religion ....showing them what God regards as pure religion....all that is covered in believing Christ....he told us to do those things since the beginning.....