What did the Jew receive first?

[RedTent]

By what will those be judged that are judged? Those that have Christ will be judged by His righteousness, yes, and those without by their own filthy works, but by what is righteousness measured? Is it simply belief and unbelief in Jesus or something more?

It is a thought provoking question. Those who speak so against works think they have the answer by simply saying we must not work, and scripture says we must. Scripture tells us to be perfect on one hand and that we will never be perfect on the other. Scripture says it is only faith we are judged by and our heart, that God gives us grace based on that.

I think it has to do with how we react to our faith. If there was a bridge we had to go over to get to our home and we said we had faith in that bridge that it would not break if we used it, but our faith in the bridge wasn't enough to actually step on it, then how we acted would tell our faith. So if we have faith in God's instructions to be kind to our neighbor and we did something to harm him, it would show we didn't have faith in what God told us.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

By what will those be judged that are judged? Those that have Christ will be judged by His righteousness, yes, and those without by their own filthy works, but by what is righteousness measured? Is it simply belief and unbelief in Jesus or something more?

The body of Christ, the church has been judged righteous through faith in Jesus Christ. But we will still give account of what we have done while in this body either good or bad.

So everyone of us shall give account of himself to God. Rom. 14:12

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:10

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss [of rewards]: but he himself shall be saved yet so as by fire.
1 Cor. 3:13-15

 

[Elin]

Remember, as you study, that we still have the temple and
we still have a high priest doing the same things,

Are you forgetting that Jesus was sacrificed once for all,
and there is no offering of atoning sacrifice going on in the NT?

Our High Priest is not still doing the same things.

I do not understand the purpose you have in all your negative posts.
It would help if you would simply state what of the bible you are so against? Perhaps your purpose is against all that God did as our creator and how powerful Christ was before Christ lived on earth?

I don't know how to state it any plainer than I have.

Our new High Priest is the Mediator between God and man, as was the Levitical High Priest,
who ever lives to make intercession for us, and applies, by the Holy Spirit, to those who believe in him
the benefits of his once-for-all sacrifice.

This post seems to be saying that the symbol of Christ's blood in the sacrificial system was inferior to the real once and for all blood shed, and everyone knows that. But this post is scolding me for "forgetting" something in connection with it.

You keep denying and scolding, but never being clear how you have something better. It is as if you think someone is not recognizing the wonders of Christ, but surely you don't think the wonders of Christ wipes out the wonders of God for the thousands of years of time the earth spent before Christ lived here, or that Christ wasn't powerful before but only had power after the crucifixion in our kind of time? Your constant scolding and denying is truly upsetting!!

 

[royalscot]

??? you must mean this is when Rome tore it down. OK??
So this temple doesn't apply?
[SUP]1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Revelation 21
[/SUP][SUP]
will be?
[/SUP]
I never needed a temple of stone. ???? And your point is????

"In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." Hebrew 8:13 and Hebrews 9:1

what law.
them , us and all . (basic engilsh used in the same sentence)after all after 70ad all went to school
and with a law how can there every be all.
as in grace a gift.

 

[royalscot]

what law.
them , us and all . (basic engilsh used in the same sentence)after all after 70ad all went to school
and with a law how can there every be all.
as in grace a gift.

what law.
them , us and all . (basic engilsh used in the same sentence)after all after 70ad all went to school
and with a law, how can there every be an all. to them and us. (duh)
as in grace a gift.
copy cats need to prove them selfs. to them selfs. yet the snake gave an answer, but could not give a punishment. and you wonder why.

 

[royalscot]

Who is "us" and "we"?
Ephesians 1:9-12
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

1 Corinthians 4:1-2

1.Let a man so account of "us", as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Stewards=3623. oikonomos oy-kon-om'-os from 3624 and the base of 3551; a house-distributor (i.e. manager), or overseer, i.e. an employee in that capacity; by extension, a fiscal agent (treasurer); figuratively, a preacher (of the Gospel):--chamberlain, governor, steward.

and to think bible sword came to all ,
how mny gentiles were at acts 15. and how many of(jewish that were acts 15) were at the the bible signing 1500 ad. when the book went to print.
did they see 70 ad

 

[RedTent]

I don't know how to state it any plainer than I have.

I went through every one of your posts in this thread, copied down what it said except for the posts where you mainly just say "nope" and what you are trying to say in your posts is certainly not clear except you are against many posts. What are you for? Maybe if you would just answer enough to tell us if you thought the Lord spoke to the Hebrews with scripture?

 

[RedTent]

what law.
them , us and all . (basic engilsh used in the same sentence)after all after 70ad all went to school
and with a law, how can there every be an all. to them and us. (duh)
as in grace a gift.
copy cats need to prove them selfs. to them selfs. yet the snake gave an answer, but could not give a punishment. and you wonder why.

Honestly, your English is hard to understand.

When the Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD, it really changed nothing because we are told the temple is in our hearts now. We still have a temple, just not the one destroyed by man.

"as in grace a gift"???? Huh? Who is a copy cat in your eyes?

There seems to be a misunderstanding about Acts 15. The Jews are having an argument, with some saying unless a gentile is physically circumcised and obeys all the rituals Moses taught them they couldn't even sit in the synagogue where they are taught about God every Sabbath, and God wouldn't accept them. It was decided that having their baby boys cut and changing their diet wasn't to be asked of them (Law of Moses). Do you think the argument was about what scripture tells us is Holy with God? Like giving guidance about not lying or killing? One of the top Jews there was the brother of Jesus, I don't think he would be part of an argument against such things. If that was it, then they wouldn't speak about going to the synagogue, because scripture of God was taught there. Christ spoke of Moses and the Father, they wouldn't be speaking differently than Christ spoke. But Christ spoke of obedience in spirit and truth, it would not be against Christ to say you could keep the spirit and truth of an instruction without the ritualistic reminder of it.

I hope this isn't too long, and you can follow my post.

 

[royalscot]

I went through every one of your posts in this thread, copied down what it said except for the posts where you mainly just say "nope" and what you are trying to say in your posts is certainly not clear except you are against many posts. What are you for? Maybe if you would just answer enough to tell us if you thought the Lord spoke to the Hebrews with scripture?

he did, problem is the word change. 70 ad. and at 60 ad that would be 10 years to rethink and correct history s as they learned it,
long wait to 1500 ad dont you think.

 

[Apostol2013]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Apostol2013]

Isa 8:7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:
Isa 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Isa 8:9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
Isa 8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
Isa 8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
Isa 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Isa 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Isa 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

[chubbena]

My post above is in perfect agreement with her post #206.

It's good when one acknowledges the law of God spoken through Moses is good.

 

[chubbena]

Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given (or grace for grace in KJV) -

what is grace already given?

Not quite. . .nice try at deceptively slipping the law into grace.

You've been flim-flammed by your contra-NT theology.

"Out of his fullness (Jesus Christ, vv. 14-15) we have all received grace on top of grace," (KJVII)

It is of Christ's fullness that we have all received grace, and that's not
"through the law of Moses."

It surely is addressed by deceptively separating the law of God speaking through Moses from the Word of God. It surely purposefully disregarded in the context "grace in place of grace already given".

Out of His fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. This "grace already given" was from the Word of God before He became flesh.

Then again, this is non-essential according to some.

 

[chubbena]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Would you elaborate on Daniel 9:26 ....and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...please?

 

[Elin]

Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given (or grace for grace in KJV) -

what is grace already given? The law given through Moses

Not quite. . .nice try at deceptively slipping the law into grace.

You've been flim-flammed by your contra-NT theology.

"Out of his fullness (Jesus Christ, vv. 14-15) we have all received grace on top of grace," (KJVII)

It is of Christ's fullness that we have all received grace, and that's not
"through the law of Moses."

It surely is addressed by deceptively separating the law of God speaking through Moses from the Word of God. It surely purposefully disregarded in the context "grace in place of grace already given".

Out of His fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

Nope. . .

The Greek text states "grace on top of grace,"

which the various versions translate as: Out of Christ's fullness we have all received
"grace on top of grace," "grace upon grace," "one grace after another', "one blessing after another," etc.

It's not about the law of Moses, it's about the grace of Christ.

"The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."(Jn 1:17)

Grace is not identified with the law, grace is distinguished from the law.

This "grace already given" was from the Word of God before He became flesh.

Nope. . .

"We" is the NT saints, not the OT saints.

So many verses misrepresented in your contra-NT theology. . .

 

[Elin]

I went through every one of your posts in this thread, copied down what it said except for the posts where you mainly just say "nope" and
what you are trying to say in your posts is certainly not clear except you are against many posts. What are you for? Maybe if you would just answer enough to tell us if you thought the Lord spoke to the Hebrews with scripture?

Okay. . .that's a lot of work.

So if you'll present one thing you do not understand,
and ask a question that reflects what you do not understand,
I will address them one at a time to try to help clear up what I have said.

 

[Elin]

It's good when one acknowledges the law of God spoken through Moses is good.

It's not said anywhere other than your intellectually dishonest methodology which misrepresents what others say.

 

[RedTent]

Okay. . .that's a lot of work.

So if you'll present one thing you do not understand,
and ask a question that reflects what you do not understand,
I will address them one at a time to try to help clear up what I have said.

I have understanding that many of your statements of the meaning that the Lord has for us in in error, but I do not understand why you are so sure of yourself that they are all right, what you are trying to prove.

I am clear, I am trying to prove to the world that the Lord is correct, and all His word is scripture. To me you are not clear about what you try to prove.

Take law and grace. You understand, it seems that God gives instructions about how for us to live most successfully. It also seems you understand that how successful we live is not what is the base for our salvation, but it is given to us through God's love and mercy for us. But you seem to be putting these two things together, making one truth affecting the other truth in a way that bewilder me.

Also, you talk about Jew and gentile. It seems so simple, God created a Hebrew race to use for our benefit, and told them to separate themselves from those who did not believe in Him. He guided them in worship, and used lots of physical rituals to help guide. Teaching them had to do with Christ's blood (can't put this all in one sentence). Then Christ was crucified and God wanted all people free access to Him without any of the separating things any more. Your idea of all that gets confusing---with no joining it seems of Jew and gentile. It seems to me you get what isn't required any more all mixed up.

I realize you think your understanding is absolutely perfect. I feel pretty sure of my understanding, too. But I would like to know better how you came to these things you are so sure of. Perhaps it is only that they seem so against what God says it is hard for me to accept you believe some of them?

 

[Karraster]

The body of Christ, the church has been judged righteous through faith in Jesus Christ. But we will still give account of what we have done while in this body either good or bad.

So everyone of us shall give account of himself to God. Rom. 14:12

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:10

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss [of rewards]: but he himself shall be saved yet so as by fire.
1 Cor. 3:13-15

and that word "faith" has been diminished to mean "believe in your mind something to be true" when true faith is much more. Faith=faithfulness. You have faith in the laws of nature (also from our Creator) and you obey them because you must, there is no choice. If you stumble you fall according to the law of gravity. Obeying Torah is a choice, and we know our Messiah said if you love Him do His yoke, which is His teachings.

 

[chubbena]

It's not said anywhere other than your intellectually dishonest methodology which misrepresents what others say.

Now I am not sure if you agreed with

it's not God's Law that the NT says is obsolete...
God's Law is a reflection of His own character, and will be with us always.
it's needed to lead sinners to Christ,
and to convict God's children when they sin.

however, it's the covenant established through Moses that the Scripture says is obsolete...
and that's for our good, too.
we couldn't ever live up to the terms of that covenant,
just as the children of Israel couldn't.

Is not God's law spoken by the Word of God recorded by Moses? Didn't Psychomom say "it's not God's Law that the NT says is obsolete"?