What does the Law REALLY say?

[JaumeJ]

Look to our Maker and His relation to the Assembly, and you will know why God will not permit, for Himself, divorce. God knows the weakness of flesh, and He will not condemn any who divorce. Many of the laws are teaching us what God, Himself, will not permit for Himself, although there were times He actually considered divorce..

Thus, although we do not approve of divorce, we do not condemn. Keep in mind with the judgment we mete out we are judged. I have close relatives, and not a few, who have divorced, and the thought of condemning them to hell for having divorced is repugnant to my heart soul and mind, though I am against the idea of divorce.

Imagine were God to approve of divorce, no bride. Judge not lest you be judged by your own words, amen.

 

[royalscot]

Look to our Maker and His relation to the Assembly, and you will know why God will not permit, for Himself, divorce. God knows the weakness of flesh, and He will not condemn any who divorce. Many of the laws are teaching us what God, Himself, will not permit for Himself, although there were times He actually considered divorce..

Thus, although we do not approve of divorce, we do not condemn. Keep in mind with the judgment we mete out we are judged. I have close relatives, and not a few, who have divorced, and the thought of condemning them to hell for having divorced is repugnant to my heart soul and mind, though I am against the idea of divorce.

Imagine were God to approve of divorce, no bride. Judge not lest you be judged by your own words, amen.

sorry brother, tell me again, who appointed us judge. and when did it use the law as a plumb line.
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,Romans 3

 

[JaumeJ]

You do err in understanding the meaning of what I have posted.

Regarding Who has appointed us to judge, you should already know, but I will tell you. Jesus Christ teaches we should judge for ourselves what is right. He is not teaching ust to judge to condemnation at all, for that would braing our own judgment upon ourselves come His great and glorious day.

He also teaches He came to forgive, not to condemn, and thus I do not condemn others for their faults, even divorce, for as I desire with my whole heart, mind and soul to be forgiven my trespasses, so I gladly forgive hothers theirs, for I am not bettr than any other sinner.

Please go back to the post and read the part about God applying this particular law as His own standard, for were He to divorce His wife, He would be divorcing His very Assembly, and we know His love is perfect. Consider this understanding while reading God's relationship with Israel and all who have been joined to the faith of Abraham if you know who the is. Idf you do not know, then you cannot understand the meaning of the post, and if you do not, you should not reply until you do.

sorry brother, tell me again, who appointed us judge. and when did it use the law as a plumb line.
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,Romans 3

 

[JaumeJ]

Here is something about what the law truly says to me, though I may not have the words to properly convey my understanding.

Upon posting to other posts here, it has been given to me to understand something new, yet ancient as our Maker, Himself.

God would never give flesh any commandments to His Children that He does not observe Himself, for God cannot sin.

kKnow our frame, that we are but flesh, He knows we are incapable of being as He is, but at the same time His desire is for HIs Children to be as much like He as is humanly possible, though being perfect as He, is impossible for any flesh except Jesus Christ.

Wo what do we learn from this? God is perfect, and He would that His Children be perfect, knowing in the flesh we cannot be so. His manner of making us perfect is to be perfect for us, Jesus Christ on the Cross. His Children recognize His voice and believe HIm though not perfect, and we are perfected daily by God, Himself, only to be finished with being perfected on His great and glorious Day!

In the meantime, we know not only from the Word in print what He expects of Himself, but what He expects from us, His Children so we obey Him as best we are able while being perfected. We have learned the perfection of the law and obedience under grace from Jesus Christ's teaching and example. This is not being legalistic nor under the law, not, it is our attempt to be as much like our Father as is given us under grace. Obedienc is not a sin. Disobedience is.

I praise God for this understanding of grace and obedience. God does not sin, and for us to think His laws are destroyed by the cross is teaching against the way He would have us strive to be, as He is. Abain obdience is guided by the law, while disobecience is following the lawless one. Do not follow Satgan.

 

[BradC]

Here is something about what the law truly says to me, though I may not have the words to properly convey my understanding.

Upon posting to other posts here, it has been given to me to understand something new, yet ancient as our Maker, Himself.

God would never give flesh any commandments to His Children that He does not observe Himself, for God cannot sin.

kKnow our frame, that we are but flesh, He knows we are incapable of being as He is, but at the same time His desire is for HIs Children to be as much like He as is humanly possible, though being perfect as He, is impossible for any flesh except Jesus Christ.

Wo what do we learn from this? God is perfect, and He would that His Children be perfect, knowing in the flesh we cannot be so. His manner of making us perfect is to be perfect for us, Jesus Christ on the Cross. His Children recognize His voice and believe HIm though not perfect, and we are perfected daily by God, Himself, only to be finished with being perfected on His great and glorious Day!

In the meantime, we know not only from the Word in print what He expects of Himself, but what He expects from us, His Children so we obey Him as best we are able while being perfected. We have learned the perfection of the law and obedience under grace from Jesus Christ's teaching and example. This is not being legalistic nor under the law, not, it is our attempt to be as much like our Father as is given us under grace. Obedienc is not a sin. Disobedience is.

I praise God for this understanding of grace and obedience. God does not sin, and for us to think His laws are destroyed by the cross is teaching against the way He would have us strive to be, as He is. Abain obdience is guided by the law, while disobecience is following the lawless one. Do not follow Satgan.

Our obedience of faith is to the word of His grace through the agency of the Holy Spirit. Practically speaking, as spiritual believers, we are to walk by faith in the light of God's grace and knowledge of his Son (2 Peter 3:18). We are to be led by the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit, live in the Spirit and to walk in the Spirit which is a Spirit of grace and truth (Gal 5:18, 25, Eph 5:18, Heb 10:29, John 15:26). The word that we live by is according to what we have been taught and the Holy Spirit brings it to our remembrance (John 14:26) to quicken us according to the words of life (John 6:63,68, Phil 2:16, 1 John 1:1). This is how we learn to have the mind of Christ in the details of life (Phil 2:5). This is how we learn to be fixed upon Him and to have perfect peace with our mind stayed on Him (Is 26:3).

Jesus learned obedience through the things he suffered (Heb 5:8) even unto death (Phil 2:8). We do not walk after the flesh nor war after the flesh, but we learn obedience by casting down every imagination and high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God we have learned through the Spirit and we bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5,6). This is not living in obedience to the law but through the Spirit with every thought and imagination being subject to the law of Christ which involves the Holy Spirit, the grace of God and the words of Christ which are spirit and life (John 6:63).

 

[JaumeJ]

You are saying Jesus Christ learned obedience. This is going to take some time for me to understand so please do not contineu with me. When I understand Jesus needed to learn obedience I may or may not get back to you. All I think of when hearing something like this is, "Woman, knew you not I would be about my Father's business." He said this at the age of about 12.

Your statement implies Jesus was disobedient at one time, and this cannot be so.

 

[oldthennew]

HEBREW 5:8.
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered....

this scripture in no wise is saying that Christ was learning obedience because
of a disobedience. rather it is saying,
PHIL.2:8.
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient
unto death, even the death of the cross.

in another place it says, 'And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in
favor with God and men.

even though He was God and became a man, He went through a process of
maturing in the ways of God so that He could identify with us in a personal
and intimate way.

HEBREW 4:15.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Dan_473]

When you pursue a set of rules just for the sake of those rules, you get nothing but perhaps some physical benefit that comes from keeping it.

When you follow God's Spirit, it will show you how to keep those rules, and in what way. The Holy Spirit won't cause you break those rules because the Holy Spirit=God, and God wrote those rules.
Does God want us to sin? Of course not. That means God always wants us to follow His rules/commands/laws.

will the spirit ever lead a person to keep a rule in such a way that most other people looking at the words of the law will say that the person is breaking that rule?

 

[Dan_473]

Ahemmmmm.....

(Feminine products)

does this law embarrass you? I believe there is also a rule about talking about these laws as you go about your daily activities... and posting them on the door of your house... I think if people are willing to do that, then they can talk freely about menstral fluids...

 

[Dan_473]

Ahemmmmm.....

(Feminine products)

anyway, it doesn't say if her menstral fluid gets on the chair... barriers have always been available, such as an old piece of fabric or animal skin... it's enough if she sits on it... then if someone touches that chair, they need to wash and so on...

 

[Dan_473]

The interpretations and applications you're suggesting are personal and go beyond what the Law says, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with folks who want to be as careful as they can to not risk breaking the Law, but as I said, that's where the Pharisees got into trouble. I will agree with your last statement for the most part. The priority should be following the Spirit, but as I've said, the Spirit will cause you to follow the Law. And again, what does God care about most? His people isolating themselves to not risk being unclean, or to among the lost to be a light? Remember, being "unclean" wasn't a sin. It was the product of living with others and just plain being in the world. God knew His people would be unclean throughout the day, and He made a way for them to be cleansed. It's the same with us today.

I suppose you and I are getting hung up on how much work we should do to avoid being unclean. What you're proposing is much more legalistic than what I am.

"The interpretations and applications you're suggesting are personal and go beyond what the Law says, and that's fine."... are they fine with God?

"...the Spirit will cause you to follow the Law." ... will the spirit cause you to be lax in following it?

"...He made a way for them to be cleansed." ... in lev15:22, i think the person is unclean until evening... the washings don't seem to affect the 'clean' state, they're just something to be done... with zeal, I would think...

 

[Dan_473]

The interpretations and applications you're suggesting are personal and go beyond what the Law says, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with folks who want to be as careful as they can to not risk breaking the Law, but as I said, that's where the Pharisees got into trouble. I will agree with your last statement for the most part. The priority should be following the Spirit, but as I've said, the Spirit will cause you to follow the Law. And again, what does God care about most? His people isolating themselves to not risk being unclean, or to among the lost to be a light? Remember, being "unclean" wasn't a sin. It was the product of living with others and just plain being in the world. God knew His people would be unclean throughout the day, and He made a way for them to be cleansed. It's the same with us today.

I suppose you and I are getting hung up on how much work we should do to avoid being unclean. What you're proposing is much more legalistic than what I am.

"And again, what does God care about most? His people isolating themselves to not risk being unclean, or to among the lost to be a light?"

myself, I don't think God wants Christians to try to follow the law... but if one does, then I suppose being among the lost is more important, and just doing a modified version of the law...

 

[Dan_473]

Remember, He kept it strictly, but not according to the Pharisees interpretations. And you're right, He did keep it according to the Spirit's interpretation, which still would have met the physical requirements of the Law completely. The Holy Spirit cannot change what God Himself created, and what Jesus Himself lived out, because they're all the same. The Pharisees placed their interpretation and application of the Law in a different way than God intended, and that's what Jesus' called them out on.



Jesus' didn't change the Laws, He brought them to a greater understanding. Just because He said if you hate your neighbor you've sinned, it doesn't mean the law to not murder has been changed. He took the law to a higher standard without eliminating the original standard.

"...He did keep it according to the Spirit's interpretation, which still would have met the physical requirements of the Law completely." ... well, that sounds good! The spirit's interpretation will fulfill all the requirements, the key then is just go with what the spirit says the law says...

"He took the law to a higher standard without eliminating the original standard."... well, i think following the spirit's interpretation would fulfill every level...

 

[royalscot]

You do err in understanding the meaning of what I have posted.

Regarding Who has appointed us to judge, you should already know, but I will tell you. Jesus Christ teaches we should judge for ourselves what is right. He is not teaching ust to judge to condemnation at all, for that would braing our own judgment upon ourselves come His great and glorious day.

He also teaches He came to forgive, not to condemn, and thus I do not condemn others for their faults, even divorce, for as I desire with my whole heart, mind and soul to be forgiven my trespasses, so I gladly forgive hothers theirs, for I am not bettr than any other sinner.

Please go back to the post and read the part about God applying this particular law as His own standard, for were He to divorce His wife, He would be divorcing His very Assembly, and we know His love is perfect. Consider this understanding while reading God's relationship with Israel and all who have been joined to the faith of Abraham if you know who the is. Idf you do not know, then you cannot understand the meaning of the post, and if you do not, you should not reply until you do.

when did i err. promise is not law. this action is not law ,raised the knife believing god could raise the dead. ,is still not law.

however dates and times will help following the change from the old to the new. 48ad to 70 ad
read acts 10.15, and gal3
raised on the third day , now back in heaven.
i am saved in the new covenant. the one hes back in heaven, i am not jewish. grace a gift . unmerited faviour.
what law. when was i jewish. i am a gentile.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

judging Others
funny he said this here.
37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;38 give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you."

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

 

[KohenMatt]

will the spirit ever lead a person to keep a rule in such a way that most other people looking at the words of the law will say that the person is breaking that rule?

Absolutely.
Jesus.

 

[KohenMatt]

does this law embarrass you? I believe there is also a rule about talking about these laws as you go about your daily activities... and posting them on the door of your house... I think if people are willing to do that, then they can talk freely about menstral fluids...

No it doesn't, I was just trying to be funny.

And that rule you mentioned....
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 “These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7“You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8“You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.9“You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates."

Awesome verse because it's saying you should think about the Law and talk about ALL THE TIME, not just some of the time.

 

[KohenMatt]

"The interpretations and applications you're suggesting are personal and go beyond what the Law says, and that's fine."... are they fine with God?

I think God is pleased when you go to Him and prayerfully ask Him exactly how He wants you to keep them. We live in a different culture than the Israelites did, so the application is going to look a little different, and will look a little different for each believer. But the principle remains the same.

"...the Spirit will cause you to follow the Law." ... will the spirit cause you to be lax in following it?

No I don't believe the Spirit will cause you to be lax in it.

"...He made a way for them to be cleansed." ... in lev15:22, i think the person is unclean until evening... the washings don't seem to affect the 'clean' state, they're just something to be done... with zeal, I would think...

Correct, you're unclean until evening even if you wash.

 

[KohenMatt]

will the spirit ever lead a person to keep a rule in such a way that most other people looking at the words of the law will say that the person is breaking that rule?

Absolutely.
Jesus.

Also, David and Paul

 

[royalscot]

Absolutely.
Jesus.

Originally Posted by Dan_473

will the spirit ever lead a person to keep a rule in such a way that most other people looking at the words of the law will say that the person is breaking that rule?



The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5 When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread.6 Jesus said to them, "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."7 And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, "We brought no bread."8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?9 Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?11 How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.


so what are the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.?
then they err in there teaching of what jesus told the disciples
before pentecost.

 

[Elin]

You are saying Jesus Christ learned obedience.

No that's what the word of God says in Heb 5:8.

This is going to take some time for me to understand so please do not contineu with me. When I understand Jesus needed to learn obedience I may or may not get back to you. All I think of when hearing something like this is, "Woman, knew you not I would be about my Father's business." He said this at the age of about 12.

Your statement implies Jesus was disobedient at one time, and this cannot be so.

It implies no such thing.

You're measuring the word of God by your foolish human reasoning.