What did the Jew receive first?

[psychomom]

we should be grateful beyond belief that Jesus fulfilled the Law for us.

the Gospel shows us that though there are commands for us,
we ought not make that our focus. that would continually turns us inward
and cause us to focus on ourselves.
under the Gospel of Grace, we turn our attention to the Lord Jesus
and what He has done, and outward to others.

we are not saved apart from God's Law...we are saved because Jesus lived it for us.

in other words, the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
it's the Life of Christ. ♥

and, yeah...Hebrews 7!

 

[Elin]

we should be grateful beyond belief that Jesus fulfilled the Law for us.

the Gospel shows us that though there are commands for us,
we ought not make that our focus. that would continually turns us inward
and cause us to focus on ourselves.
under the Gospel of Grace, we turn our attention to the Lord Jesus
and what He has done, and outward to others.

we are not saved apart from God's Law...we are saved because Jesus lived it for us.

in other words, the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
it's the Life of Christ. ♥

and, yeah...Hebrews 7!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to psychomom again.

 

[RedTent]

we should be grateful beyond belief that Jesus fulfilled the Law for us.

the Gospel shows us that though there are commands for us,
we ought not make that our focus. that would continually turns us inward
and cause us to focus on ourselves.
under the Gospel of Grace, we turn our attention to the Lord Jesus
and what He has done, and outward to others.

we are not saved apart from God's Law...we are saved because Jesus lived it for us.

in other words, the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
it's the Life of Christ. ♥

and, yeah...Hebrews 7!

I would word it a bit differently. We should be grateful that our creator created a world with such order that if we followed how He guides us we would have a marvelous world. It would be family based with groups helping each other to live happily. We have a Savior who expanded it so we understand those directions from the heart, not by the letter.

In addition to that is our Father's plan of salvation for us, centering on Christ. Through that we even have the Holy Spirit to help us. All we have to do is follow Christ as Christ leads, that takes us to love. Salvation is taken care of through Christ.

There is no problem, then, with being outward, it comes naturally. We joyfully work for the Lord, but our works in in following Christ as He leads the way, finishing what the Father has created for us.

 

[just-me]

Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say , Amen.

By changing the word/name of God into something different than what He revealed to us of Himself in the Old Testament, you are making another God in your own image, and you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you are living a life that takes advantage of your parents to attain your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:17-19
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say , Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say , Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice taking advantage of legalities for the purpose of extortion against others, or teach a doctrine that blinds people from the truth by perverting, and negating righteous judgment, you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. You are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:20-23
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say , Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say , Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you endorse sexual perversion, and promiscuity, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:24-25
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say , Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice armed robbery, premeditated murder, or destroy an innocent life for the purpose of patronizing your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you don't agree with these five words of the law, you are cursed.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

[just-me]

Deuteronomy 28:2-6
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in , and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

If you take God's law to heart, wherever you go, whatever you have, and whatever you do will be a blessing.

Deuteronomy 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

Your enemies that come against you will be scattered, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Whatever works you do will be fruitful, and you will be blessed with what God has given you, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 28:9-10
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, and keep His commandments, He will confirm the truth to His own but your adversary will reveal his fear by denouncing this truth.

Deuteronomy 28:11-12
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, you will have need of nothing because the fruit of the Spirit will fill your heart, and you will be equipped to share this increase of your faith.

Deuteronomy 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

You may be seen as the last, or even the underdog, but the last shall be first and you will not be under the curse of the law if you accept and desire the commandments of the LORD your God, that He has commanded to you this day, to observe and to do them. You are blessed!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how.html#post1696579
post 601

Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Elin]

Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say , Amen.

By changing the word/name of God into something different than what He revealed to us of Himself in the Old Testament, you are making another God in your own image, and you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you are living a life that takes advantage of your parents to attain your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:17-19
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say , Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say , Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice taking advantage of legalities for the purpose of extortion against others, or teach a doctrine that blinds people from the truth by perverting, and negating righteous judgment, you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. You are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:20-23
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say , Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say , Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you endorse sexual perversion, and promiscuity, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:24-25
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say , Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice armed robbery, premeditated murder, or destroy an innocent life for the purpose of patronizing your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you don't agree with these five words of the law, you are cursed.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

All condensed by Jesus into Mt 22:37-29.

 

[Elin]

Deuteronomy 28:2-6
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in , and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

If you take God's law to heart, wherever you go, whatever you have, and whatever you do will be a blessing.

Deuteronomy 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

Your enemies that come against you will be scattered, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Whatever works you do will be fruitful, and you will be blessed with what God has given you, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 28:9-10
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, and keep His commandments, He will confirm the truth to His own but your adversary will reveal his fear by denouncing this truth.

Deuteronomy 28:11-12
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, you will have need of nothing because the fruit of the Spirit will fill your heart, and you will be equipped to share this increase of your faith.

Deuteronomy 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

You may be seen as the last, or even the underdog, but the last shall be first and you will not be under the curse of the law if you accept and desire the commandments of the LORD your God, that He has commanded to you this day, to observe and to do them. You are blessed!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how.html#post1696579
post 601

Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

All given to those in Christ Jesus through faith by grace.

 

[RedTent]

All given to those in Christ Jesus through faith by grace.

Did you mean for us to listen to your comments as saying it is OK to read these scriptures given, or to put it with your other comments of disagreeing? Did you want to point out how Jesus destroyed or how Jesus builds?

 

[Elin]

Did you mean for us to listen to your comments as saying it is OK to read these scriptures given, or
to put it with your other comments of disagreeing? Did you want to point out how Jesus destroyed or how Jesus builds?

Just put it with itself, that will be fine.

 

[chubbena]

Yes, and your statement was about the law being "obsolete."

Well I'm not the one who said

The Biblical statement about the old covenant is that it is obsolete (Heb 8:13).

She pointed out to you that what is "obsolete" is the old covenant. (Heb 8:13),

It was not the old covenant in question. It was your statement that the law of Moses is obsolete.

that the law has been "set aside" (Heb 7:18-19), etc.

It does not mean whatever the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets are set aside.

The law spoken of in the verses given above is the law of Moses.

The law of Moses is not just about animal sacrifices.
Again the Christ quoted from the law of Moses when He answered the question: which is the greatest commandment in the law.
Again the Christ says: man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

And Paul said: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". And the scripture includes the first five books in the Bible in which God spoke His law through Moses.

 

[chubbena]

All condensed by Jesus into Mt 22:37-29.

So not replaced?

 

[just-us-2]

Well I'm not the one who said


It was not the old covenant in question. It was your statement that the law of Moses is obsolete.

It does not mean whatever the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets are set aside.

Which bible translation has "the law has been set side"?
The law of Moses is not just about animal sacrifices.
Again the Christ quoted from the law of Moses when He answered the question: which is the greatest commandment in the law.
Again the Christ says: man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

And Paul said: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". And the scripture includes the first five books in the Bible in which God spoke His law through Moses.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chubbena again.

 

[just-me]

Let's start over for the 4th time and see if we can come to agreement as Children of God should.

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the *dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by *initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

*initiation as in start/begin=God's will from the beginning and introduced at the appropriate time sequence.

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites. Are those rites the same as what the Jew's received previously, or are they different? If so, are the Gentiles grafted into the same promise that God gave to Israel?

Romans 1:14-16
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Post 345
Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
post 344

 

[Elin]

The Biblical statement about the old covenant is that it is obsolete (Heb 8:13).

While the Biblical statements about the law are
we are no longer under the law of Moses but are under the law of Christ (1Co 9:20-21; Mt 22:37-39),
the law has been set aside in the NT (Heb 7:18-19; Gal 5:6) and is
fulfilled in the law of Christ (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10).

It does not mean whatever the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets
are set aside.

That's what the word of God states in Heb 7:18-19.

Yes, the law of Moses has been set aside as the means of righteousness,
and in the new covenant, righteousness is only by faith in Christ, not by law keeping.

The law of Moses is not just about animal sacrifices.
Again the Christ quoted from the law of Moses when He answered the question: which is the greatest commandment in the law.
Again the Christ says: man does not live by bread alone but by
every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

And that includes the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
which reveals that those in the new covenant are not under the law of Moses,
but are under the law of Christ, which is God's law (1Co 9:20-21).

And Paul said: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". And
the scripture includes the first five books in the Bible in which God spoke His law through Moses.

The Scripture includes everything from "In the beginning" to "Bonded Leather".

 

[Elin]

All condensed by Jesus into Mt 22:37-39.

So not replaced?

Replaced as the means of righteousness.

 

[Elin]

Let's start over for the 4th time and see if we can come to agreement as Children of God should.

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by *initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

*initiation as in start/begin=God's will from the beginning and introduced at the appropriate time sequence.

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites.

Nope. . .previously addressed. . .multiple times.

"Religious rites" is not the NT meaning of "mystery."

That is its pagan usage and meaning.

 

[just-me]

Nope. . .previously addressed. . .multiple times.

"Religious rites" is not the NT meaning of "mystery."

That is its pagan usage and meaning.

Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up , and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe .
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness , giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

God's will from the beginning was to include all the world and introduce the plan of salvation at the appropriate time sequence.
*initiation as in start/begin=God's will from the beginning and introduced at the appropriate time sequence.

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites.

 

[just-me]

Nope. . .previously addressed. . .multiple times.

"Religious rites" is not the NT meaning of "mystery."

That is its pagan usage and meaning.

Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up , and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe .
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness , giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

It was Peter's job to tell the believing Jews that the Gentiles were included with them, and it was Paul's job to tell the Gentiles that they were included with those believing Jews.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Ephesians 3:1-4
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

I will have to stand against calling this revealed mystery a pagan description (that was once a secret) just because Israel/Jews heard God's word first. Salvation can be seen in Exodus chapters 12 through 15.

 

[Elin]

Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up , and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe .
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness , giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

It was Peter's job to tell the believing Jews that the Gentiles were included with them, and it was Paul's job to tell the Gentiles that they were included with those believing Jews.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Ephesians 3:1-4
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

I will have to stand against calling this revealed mystery a pagan description (that was once a secret) just because Israel/Jews heard God's word first. Salvation can be seen in Exodus chapters 12 through 15.

So to what "religious rite" is Paul referring to in these "mysteries"?

So which is it, "mystery" is a religious rite, as the word was used by the pagans,
or "mystery" is truth that was never before revealed, as the word is used in the NT?

They aren't the same.

Your intellectually dishonest methodology is showing.

 

[just-me]

So to what "religious rite" is Paul referring to in these "mysteries"?

So which is it, "mystery" is a religious rite, as the word was used by the pagans,
or "mystery" is truth that was never before revealed, as the word is used in the NT?

They aren't the same.

Your intellectually dishonest methodology is showing.

I am sorry that you are so spiritually unequipped to understand the truth that the Jews received the message of salvation before the gentiles realized that they also could have the same benefits as the believing Jews. Your prowess is revealing itself as very unintelligible. All you can do is speak against a mystery that you cannot comprehend. I feel sorry for you.