What prompted Religions to Ignore this?

[Richie_2uk]

I'm not sure if there is a thread that is covering this. But What originally prompted some religions, mostly Catholics. though I know others too. To start ignoring a God given command Matthew 23:9 Not to call them Father. I know religions differ from others, and there doctrines are contradicting against other religions. But what I want to know is, who?, or what? prompted religions to ignore it? And how did it all began, or how did it all become to be for them to ignore a God given command? I know first thought would be the Devil himself was probably behind it no matter what. Was it lack of translation? was it an over all leader decided to take that out of the bible?

Full verse:
[h=3]Matthew 23:9 " And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven"[/h]

 

[JesusIsAll]

I've always believed it was about empowerment. To usurp the title of father, or Holy Father, you've, in essence, inserted yourself into a place of authority over men, at least those who will buy into it. Control is power.

 

[Richie_2uk]

I've always believed it was about empowerment. To usurp the title of father, or Holy Father, you've, in essence, inserted yourself into a place of authority over men, at least those who will buy into it. Control is power.

Yeh true,. wasn't Satan got kicked out because of jelousy over power? lol

 

[JesusChica1991]

There is nothing in the Bible when kept in context that says Satan was kicked out of heaven...that was a myth started in early church history teachings

 

[Richie_2uk]

There is nothing in the Bible when kept in context that says Satan was kicked out of heaven...that was a myth started in early church history teachings

not kicked out by the litterral word KICKED out, But he was cast out. which in other words thrown out of heaven. but in today's terms, kicked, Oh Jesuschica1991 must you be awkward hehehe

Revelation 12:7-12

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, [SUP]8 [/SUP]but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. [SUP]9 [/SUP]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

 

[dcontroversal]

There is nothing in the Bible when kept in context that says Satan was kicked out of heaven...that was a myth started in early church history teachings

????????????????? say what...I can think of at least three references that refer to the fall of Lucifer/Satan from heaven and the word cast is used in two of them....so.....please enlighten us......!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yeh true,. wasn't Satan got kicked out because of jelousy over power? lol

You know, I never quite thought of it that way, more a usurpation for institutional control over men, a lust for pomp and power, but you bring up a most interesting point, that parallel. And in Revelation, the beast demands worship, has a fake earthly throne he's the pontiff over. Interesting.

 

[RedTent]

I'm not sure if there is a thread that is covering this. But What originally prompted some religions, mostly Catholics. though I know others too. To start ignoring a God given command Matthew 23:9 Not to call them Father. I know religions differ from others, and there doctrines are contradicting against other religions. But what I want to know is, who?, or what? prompted religions to ignore it? And how did it all began, or how did it all become to be for them to ignore a God given command? I know first thought would be the Devil himself was probably behind it no matter what. Was it lack of translation? was it an over all leader decided to take that out of the bible?

Full verse:
Matthew 23:9 " And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven"

Reading scripture with a legalistic, fleshly mind gets us into terrible trouble. Sometimes our fleshly mind says that what we do has no connection with spiritual truth, and sometimes it is that there is no spiritual truth in a command to do something.

We are to read all scripture relating to a certain idea. Scripture about honoring the Father in Heaven, scripture about honoring parents, all scripture about a Father and not ignoring any one of these scriptures about a certain subject. It would be impossible to learn of the way of the Lord about any one thing based on a single verse of scripture, or even on only two or three.

 

[RedTent]

How did a scripture about the place of the Lord, our Father, in our life get side tracked into a discussion about satan?

 

[iamsoandso]

that is an important scripture,here's the next verse where Jesus says we are not to be called Masters/instructors/leader/the leader ect. Matthew 23 Interlinear Bible

 

[JesusIsAll]

It always seemed this one of the dumbest mistakes Roman Catholics ever made, to call priests father, even the Pope a title of God, Holy Father, against a command of Jesus Christ. With the usual spaghetti exegesis, to attempt to say the Bible doesn't say what it says, they try to worm out of it, but it would have been smarter had they just forgone this breach with scripture, but nooo! They didn't have the brains or lack of hubris to even assume a sense of prudent propriety and avoid this breach with clear Bible teaching. You look at this alone and it begs you not to be a Catholic.

 

[iamsoandso]

also in verse 8 rabbi,we are not to call anyone or ourselves "teachers",,

 

[RedTent]

It always seemed this one of the dumbest mistakes Roman Catholics ever made, to call priests father, even the Pope a title of God, Holy Father, against a command of Jesus Christ. With the usual spaghetti exegesis, to attempt to say the Bible doesn't say what it says, they try to worm out of it, but it would have been smarter had they just forgone this breach with scripture, but nooo! They didn't have the brains or lack of hubris to even assume a sense of prudent propriety and avoid this breach with clear Bible teaching. You look at this alone and it begs you not to be a Catholic.

This thread isn't about finding logs in other's eyes, it is about the place of the Lord in our life.

 

[TheClimaxWarrior]

Yer, true growing up as a child. Calling a priest father felt gut churning. It just didn't seem right. Mind you I was the only Christian boy who was allowed to attend a Catholic Boys School. They did speak of the Holy Trinity yet the didn't mind to be called a position equal to that of GOD the Father.

Some would say not to take it literally. It's not like the Christmas Tree or keeping the Sabbath Day threads. This is up against the very title of our GOD the Father. I think it was disgusting at least I thought it was and I let people know about it. Then I was kicked out of the College as that and many other heretic cases I brought up to throw fire at with the school.

Calling a mere mortal sinner, giving him the title that only belongs to our LORD and our GOD. It is quite sincerely a vile and perverse act for anyone to carry. I think and feel if you do. Then that is called Ambush Idolatry. Satan causes sin and this is one of them. I am a kiwi but there ain't no pulling the wool over my eyes. It is wrong for you are putting the LORDS name against a mere mortal sinner.

No man deserves the titles Father or the Holy Father on the supreme GOD deserves and only deserves that title FATHER GOD.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yer, true growing up as a child. Calling a priest father felt gut churning. It just didn't seem right. Mind you I was the only Christian boy who was allowed to attend a Catholic Boys School. They did speak of the Holy Trinity yet the didn't mind to be called a position equal to that of GOD the Father.

Some would say not to take it literally. It's not like the Christmas Tree or keeping the Sabbath Day threads. This is up against the very title of our GOD the Father. I think it was disgusting at least I thought it was and I let people know about it. Then I was kicked out of the College as that and many other heretic cases I brought up to throw fire at with the school.

Calling a mere mortal sinner, giving him the title that only belongs to our LORD and our GOD. It is quite sincerely a vile and perverse act for anyone to carry. I think and feel if you do. Then that is called Ambush Idolatry. Satan causes sin and this is one of them. I am a kiwi but there ain't no pulling the wool over my eyes. It is wrong for you are putting the LORDS name against a mere mortal sinner.

No man deserves the titles Father or the Holy Father on the supreme GOD deserves and only deserves that title FATHER GOD.

Absolutely. And, if you know anything about the Bible, are you going to choose to participate in a congregation where you are supposed to address anybody so, in breach of a command of the Lord Jesus, or are you going to seek a congregation where you don't have that blatant disobedience to deal with? Catholicism drew a line on that one, their own worst enemy.

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm not sure if there is a thread that is covering this. But What originally prompted some religions, mostly Catholics. though I know others too. To start ignoring a God given command Matthew 23:9 Not to call them Father. I know religions differ from others, and there doctrines are contradicting against other religions. But what I want to know is, who?, or what? prompted religions to ignore it? And how did it all began, or how did it all become to be for them to ignore a God given command? I know first thought would be the Devil himself was probably behind it no matter what. Was it lack of translation? was it an over all leader decided to take that out of the bible?

Full verse:
Matthew 23:9 " And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven"

in the link I gave from bible hub if you go to "patera/pater" strongs 3962 and then match it to https://www.google.com/search?q=rom...fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp "pater=Roman title",,it makes me wonder if it is a carry over from the Roman government as a title to the R.C.C.?

I've wondered why myself across the years and I often give links from the "early church fathers"(makes me feel uncomfortable to call it that because of the verse you are looking at),,but it is how they were cataloged and if i call them something else none recognize it. but the part in verse 9 you point out I think is correct in thinking that jesus is telling us to not use it that way(makes you wonder how the roman Paters viewed christians who refused to address them as pater reacted to this)?,,,but also Jesus in verse 8(rabbi) and in verse 10(master) he is using similar remarks. In (mark 10;42-43) Jesus speaks about the same subject matter "exercise lordship over them ect,,,,,but so shall it not be among you ect.",,,so it seems he was telling them none of them were the "leader",,

 

[JesusIsAll]

also in verse 8 rabbi,we are not to call anyone or ourselves "teachers",,

What's amazing is these are such simple, easy commands, to show some minimal reverence to God. But you do get to know who's who, do you not?

 

[jdbear]

How did a scripture about the place of the Lord, our Father, in our life get side tracked into a discussion about satan?

It started with Mt.23 where Jesus tells us not to call any man father, because God is our father, or to call men rabbi, because Jesus is our Teacher. I think
He said this because making men our ultimate authority can lead to error.

"Woe unto you, teachers, hypocrites! for ye....
have omitted the weightier*matters*of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,....." Mt:23:23

This is what sinning angels did, except they didn't need faith, because they saw God.

 

[Kerry]

I'm not sure if there is a thread that is covering this. But What originally prompted some religions, mostly Catholics. though I know others too. To start ignoring a God given command Matthew 23:9 Not to call them Father. I know religions differ from others, and there doctrines are contradicting against other religions. But what I want to know is, who?, or what? prompted religions to ignore it? And how did it all began, or how did it all become to be for them to ignore a God given command? I know first thought would be the Devil himself was probably behind it no matter what. Was it lack of translation? was it an over all leader decided to take that out of the bible?

Full verse:
Matthew 23:9 " And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven"

Other religions were started by man himself. It was a man that went into the forest and cut down a tree. Then carved it into an image and overlaid it with gold and precious stones. Lit Incense and worshiped it. Why? because nobody is going to tell me what to do. I'm a grown man and I will do what I want to and will be accountable to no one. It is self worship and it has not changed for thousands of years and is still happening today even in so called Christian churches.

 

[iamsoandso]

The part about the term "father" at first seems simple(I've looked at it because it weighs on me the same because of this scripture),,,,but what do we do with verses like "your father Abraham",,,"your fathers" that are all through the new testament?,,but Jesus is surly trying to convey something to us when he made that statement,,,,