Conditional Salvation
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So little you know of scripture that you didn't recognize that the paraphrase was in response to your paraphrase of John 6:39.
All men have the same fallen human nature from Adam on until Christ comes again. Your human nature does not change just because you believe. Being born again has nothing to do with our state of being, that of being mortals, our physical existence.
In the last day all men will be raised immortal and incorruptible, that is when our nature will actually change.
born again refers to the regeneration of a spiritual relationship with Christ, the relationship all men were created to have with God.
All men have the same fallen human nature from Adam on until Christ comes again. Your human nature does not change just because you believe. Being born again has nothing to do with our state of being, that of being mortals, our physical existence.
In the last day all men will be raised immortal and incorruptible, that is when our nature will actually change.
born again refers to the regeneration of a spiritual relationship with Christ, the relationship all men were created to have with God.
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Scoff all you like.
You folks all teach that you can engage in a wicked act and remain in a justified state. Thus your premise of justification is an abstraction totally disconnected from a faith that works by love.
When the Bible teaches that God reckons faith as righteousness and then teaches that faith works by love and that love works no ill it is easily seen that God is looking at the condition of the heart as it relates as to whether one be justified or not.
Your theology can have an individual with a filthy evil heart justified and considered righteous which means that justificaiton is PURELY POSITIONAL in your doctrine.
I have dialogued with literally hundreds of pastors in regards to these things and they practically all teach that one can be engaged in the filthy sins of the flesh and yet still be saved.
I ask them, "saved from what" and they have trouble giving an answer because salvation to them is purely forensic/positional and bears no real connection to DEEDS which flow from the condition of the heart.
You folks all teach that you can engage in a wicked act and remain in a justified state. Thus your premise of justification is an abstraction totally disconnected from a faith that works by love.
When the Bible teaches that God reckons faith as righteousness and then teaches that faith works by love and that love works no ill it is easily seen that God is looking at the condition of the heart as it relates as to whether one be justified or not.
Your theology can have an individual with a filthy evil heart justified and considered righteous which means that justificaiton is PURELY POSITIONAL in your doctrine.
I have dialogued with literally hundreds of pastors in regards to these things and they practically all teach that one can be engaged in the filthy sins of the flesh and yet still be saved.
I ask them, "saved from what" and they have trouble giving an answer because salvation to them is purely forensic/positional and bears no real connection to DEEDS which flow from the condition of the heart.
Never confuse the fruit of salvation with any conditions for same. There are no conditions for salvation, on our part. All the conditions for our salvation were fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ. And in Him alone.
That is the essence of the gospel, wherein God's righteousness is revealed. All who are saved believe this gospel. Those who are still ignorant about this righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, do not believe the gospel and are lost. Even if they are ever so zealous for God.
That is the essence of the gospel, wherein God's righteousness is revealed. All who are saved believe this gospel. Those who are still ignorant about this righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, do not believe the gospel and are lost. Even if they are ever so zealous for God.
Hi elf3,
In that chapter Paul is talking about the works of the Mosaic Law. When Paul says that a person is not saved by works he's talking about the Mosaic Law. Paul had an issue that he had to deal with in his ministry, that was the Judaizers. The Judaizers were Jews who believed that were telling Paul's Gentile converts that in addition to faith in Christ they also needed to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses to be saved.
NKJ Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. (Act 15:1-2 NKJ)
The told the Gentile converts that unless they were circumcised they could not be saved. Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to the other apostles to resolve the problem. When they got there there were Jews in the church at Jerusalem that said then needed to be circumcised too.
4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Act 15:4-5 NKJ)
This was the subject of the Jerusalem council. If you read the whole chapter, Acts 15 you'll see how they resolved it. Paul also deals with this in Galatians. It is this keeping the Law and being circumcised that Paul is dealing with when he says a person isn't saved by works.
On the other hand, he does say that continuing in good deeds is seeking eternal life.
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
(Rom 2:5-7 NKJ)
Paul says that God will render to everyone according to his deeds. Those who continue in well doing seek eternal life and immortality. If works played no role in salvation then all the good works in the world wouldn't be seeking eternal life.
In that chapter Paul is talking about the works of the Mosaic Law. When Paul says that a person is not saved by works he's talking about the Mosaic Law. Paul had an issue that he had to deal with in his ministry, that was the Judaizers. The Judaizers were Jews who believed that were telling Paul's Gentile converts that in addition to faith in Christ they also needed to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses to be saved.
NKJ Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. (Act 15:1-2 NKJ)
The told the Gentile converts that unless they were circumcised they could not be saved. Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to the other apostles to resolve the problem. When they got there there were Jews in the church at Jerusalem that said then needed to be circumcised too.
4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Act 15:4-5 NKJ)
This was the subject of the Jerusalem council. If you read the whole chapter, Acts 15 you'll see how they resolved it. Paul also deals with this in Galatians. It is this keeping the Law and being circumcised that Paul is dealing with when he says a person isn't saved by works.
On the other hand, he does say that continuing in good deeds is seeking eternal life.
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
(Rom 2:5-7 NKJ)
Paul says that God will render to everyone according to his deeds. Those who continue in well doing seek eternal life and immortality. If works played no role in salvation then all the good works in the world wouldn't be seeking eternal life.
I knew you had misreferenced, it was my way of bringing your off reference to your attention. So then you proceed with an insult, ''So little you know of Scripture ...''. Then you reveal you have no experiential knowledge of being born again (a new nature).
Ephesians 2:3-6 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
So I have nothing more to say to you except the Gospel which you seem to need.
Ephesians 2:3-6 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
So I have nothing more to say to you except the Gospel which you seem to need.
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I knew you had misreferenced, it was my way of bringing your off reference to your attention. So then you proceed with an insult, ''So little you know of Scripture ...''. Then you reveal you have no experiential knowledge of being born again (a new nature).
Ephesians 2:3-6 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
So I have nothing more to say to you except the Gospel which you seem to need.
Ephesians 2:3-6 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
So I have nothing more to say to you except the Gospel which you seem to need.
Then the text of Eph 2-6 is not even addressing believers. It is addressing what Christ accomplished for man. All men have been saved from death and have been made alive. You are confusing that because Paul is writing to believers that what he is saying is only about believers. This first part of Eph, ending with vs 5 aligns with Rom 5:18, with I Cor 15:12-22 as well as John 6:39.
So, because you cannot refute what scripture has always meant, you resort to personal attacks on one's faith. Amazing.