The "Impossible" Gospel
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If we can't use what Jesus did for us for forgiveness of our sins, then we would have to do it for ourselves and I just can't be perfect enough to fit me into heaven. I have to have what Jesus did for me. That is what they did in Moses' day, too only they didn't understand any of it except that God said to sacrifice blood and they obeyed that. I don't understand how taking my sins to Jesus can be false, or that God told Moses he could be perfect enough to be saved. Where did you find scripture to say it is what God told Moses?
God told Moses that obedience would gain rewards but when God spoke of atonement to Moses it was completely different from the rewards from obedience. In fact, God was very clear that it was through His being God that atonement was given, there is no scripture I ever found saying God made any men powerful enough to save themselves.
God told Moses that obedience would gain rewards but when God spoke of atonement to Moses it was completely different from the rewards from obedience. In fact, God was very clear that it was through His being God that atonement was given, there is no scripture I ever found saying God made any men powerful enough to save themselves.
Uh, no Elin. Actually your view is more in line with what some religious leaders taught, where they believed the lamb was "paying for" their sins. So, now, answer why Jesus "paid" for the sins of others, when God says people do not "pay" for the sins of others. If you can't answer this enigma then shut your mouth.
Jews at the synagogues who say the Christ we know was not the Christ of OT prophecies but is still to come to us still teach scripture except for scripture telling of the Christ we know. No scripture they teach says that they are Gods who can achieve their own atonement through obedience. When you accuse anyone of anything, you need to get yours facts straight. OT scripture teaches blood, symbolic of Christ for atonement, and obedience for rewards but not the reward of atonement. That would require them to be God Himself. They teach Isaiah that says that blood used like they used for idols is hated by God, they teach Isaiah, too.
"Satan has crippled Christians for the last two thousand years. He has masterfully deceived the very elect from Christianity and drew them into a black pit of obscurity, blurring their minds and distorting the fundamental truth of the core reason why YHWH allowed His Son to be brutally murdered.
The fundamental reason is so profoundly important that YHWH through His Word, the Bible, concentrates systematically with unrestrained effort to the fulfillment of His immaculate plan for His people."
the above is from The Ultimate Mystery in the Bible by Professor WA Liebenberg
I want you to be "His people" and His people keep the commandments and the testimony of Y'shua Messiah.
There is no separation of church and Israel. The only present separation is the House of Judah and the House of Israel.
The rule of first use will show that "His people" is Israel, and YHWH divorced His people who were of the House of Israel and they became not His people, and through Y'shua (all of what he did and represented) they can now once again be His people.
First use in OT: Exo 18:1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;
First use in NT: Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
The Good Shepherd
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
Jer_50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mal_3:6 For I am YAHWEH, I do not change. Because of this, you sons of Jacob are not destroyed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Your Christian doctrine that the church and Israel are not one and the same, makes the very Jesus you say you serve a liar and a false prophet, a false teacher, see Deuteronomy 13 and remember the Bible is one consistent story for His people, Israel.
The fundamental reason is so profoundly important that YHWH through His Word, the Bible, concentrates systematically with unrestrained effort to the fulfillment of His immaculate plan for His people."
the above is from The Ultimate Mystery in the Bible by Professor WA Liebenberg
I want you to be "His people" and His people keep the commandments and the testimony of Y'shua Messiah.
There is no separation of church and Israel. The only present separation is the House of Judah and the House of Israel.
The rule of first use will show that "His people" is Israel, and YHWH divorced His people who were of the House of Israel and they became not His people, and through Y'shua (all of what he did and represented) they can now once again be His people.
First use in OT: Exo 18:1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;
First use in NT: Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
The Good Shepherd
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
Jer_50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mal_3:6 For I am YAHWEH, I do not change. Because of this, you sons of Jacob are not destroyed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Your Christian doctrine that the church and Israel are not one and the same, makes the very Jesus you say you serve a liar and a false prophet, a false teacher, see Deuteronomy 13 and remember the Bible is one consistent story for His people, Israel.
E
Isaiah 53:4-6King James Version (KJV)
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and theLord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and theLord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
well...i believe the Bible makes it pretty clear Jesus died for all our sins.
but, indeed, it wasn't the Law that was ended...it was the Mosaic Covenant.
i know we won't agree on that, and that's fine.
just telling you what i think.
but, indeed, it wasn't the Law that was ended...it was the Mosaic Covenant.
i know we won't agree on that, and that's fine.
just telling you what i think.
Scripture gives us examples of ways that are repeated over and over. Babylonian worship became only part of what God said, and synagogues were built for the first time. Then Jews went back to Jerusalem and established worship that included everything God said. We have Babylonian type worship, now.
If God sent you to turn the unrighteous toward Him, you would be burdened with the sins of others. You wouldn't be responsible for any sin, but you would be bearing it in the sense that God charged you with a mission. Don't come in here with your nonsense. If you can't answer Eze.18, then shut your mouth.
