Is Christianity Monotheistic or has it become a Polytheistic religion?

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Baptistrw

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#21
#21
onwingsaseagles said:
I told you I was raised and still attend a trinitarian church. I understand the doctrine, it is just false and not scriptural.


Agreeing with something and understanding it are 2 different things.
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The trinity is a mystery of God, as is sovereignty and human responsibility, and prayer. Some things can be accepted without being completely understood.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#22
#22
Baptistrw said:
Amen, and agreed. The trinity is one of those doctrines that came from the beginning.
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Not really it was invented in the early 4th century to oppose other heresy such as arianism and modalism neither of which i subscribe to,. However because they are false does not make the Trinity true. It is simply the doctrine supported by the Cathoklics. After the reformation the protestants got rid of many Catholic false doctrine yet there were a few they held on to including the Trinity.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#23
#23
Baptistrw said:
The trinity is a mystery of God, as is sovereignty and human responsibility, and prayer. Some things can be accepted without being completely understood.
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It can not be understood because it is not true. You just have to accept it even though it can not be taught in scripture huh?

Anytime someone tells you just accept it I can't show you were the Bible actually teaches it you can assume it is suspect.
 
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Baptistrw

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#24
#24
It is taught in scripture clearly. The details of it are difficult to explain however. If Jesus is God the father, did He talk to Himself at His baptism? This part of doctrine is foolish and illogical.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#25
Jan 8, 2009
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#25
So if Father is only God and Jesus is as you say obviously not the Father, then is it your claim that Jesus is not God?
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In the strictest sense of God = Father, yes, Jesus is the Son of God, not God.
 
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lil-rush

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#26
#26
Well this thread has me completely confused. I'm not sure what any of you believe. Let me see if I can get this straigthened out in my head.

Onwings, you do not believe in the trinity or any variation of it at all? You believe God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are three distinct and seperate beings?
 
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onwingsaseagles

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#27
#27
Baptistrw said:
It is taught in scripture clearly. The details of it are difficult to explain however. If Jesus is God the father, did He talk to Himself at His baptism? This part of doctrine is foolish and illogical.
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Jesus was a man, just as human as you or I. His humanity is the Son and was in need of fellowship with the Father to substain Him just as we do, and was as dependent on the Holy Spirit as we are. This is why Jesus needed to pray.
1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

However Jesus was God in the flesh (not God the Son there is no such person in the Bible but the only God God the Father)
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
God The Father was manifest in the flesh as the Son

If the deity of Jesus is not the Father Himself then He is not only not god because the Father is the only God but He is a liar, because Jesus tells Philip that He is the Father.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
So is Jesus a liar or the Father as He say He is?


Jesus also speaks of the Holy Spirit in the first person, when He tell the disciple He is going to send the Holy Spirit He tells the I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless I (The Holy Spirit) will comne for you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.




You can either believe the word of Jesus and scripture or you vcan believe your man made doctrine but you cannot believe both, your chooice.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#28
#28
Just because something appears to our feeble finite minds to be a paradox does not mean that it is not true.

The trinitarian doctrine encapsulates all of the information. Other views typically cherry pick the information on one side or the other of the apparent paradox.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#29
#29
lil-rush said:
Well this thread has me completely confused. I'm not sure what any of you believe. Let me see if I can get this straigthened out in my head.

Onwings, you do not believe in the trinity or any variation of it at all? You believe God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are three distinct and separate beings?
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No I do not believe they are 3 distinct beings I believe they are one and the same.

Here is what I believe.
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So I believe that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#30
#30
Slepsog4 said:
Just because something appears to our feeble finite minds to be a paradox does not mean that it is not true.

The trinitarian doctrine encapsulates all of the information. Other views typically cherry pick the information on one side or the other of the apparent paradox.
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I agree Slepsog4, because something seems to be a paradox does not mean it is not true. What we know is true is scripture, and scripture tells us..#1 The Father is the only true God, #2 That God became a man, #3 That Jesus is the man God became, #4 that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, Spirit of the Father, Spirit of Christ. this is not the teaching of three distinct beings but one, just as I believe. The teaching of the Trinity is not the teaching of scripture therefore it is false. However the paradox that the Father can be the Sion is true because it is biblical.
 
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lil-rush

Guest
#31
#31
onwingsaseagles said:
No I do not believe they are 3 distinct beings I believe they are one and the same.

Here is what I believe.
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So I believe that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
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Oh, so you believe in the Oneness Doctrine? Wow, that's why what you were saying sounded familiar. My friend tried to explain oneness doctrine to me once. I don't quite remember how she explained it, but it made sense.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#32
#32
So what you are suggesting is that God is playing Games.

Baptism: Jesus in person + the Holy Spirit (dove) + the Father (voice) = 3

Promise: I, Jesus (1), will ask the Father (1) to send the Holy Spirit (1) = 3

The Father is divine (God) but He is not the Son, nor the Holy Spirit.
The Son is divine (God) but He is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is divine (God) but he is not the Father, nor the Son.

One what; Three who = Trinity (tri + unity)
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#33
#33
lil-rush said:
Oh, so you believe in the Oneness Doctrine? Wow, that's why what you were saying sounded familiar. My friend tried to explain oneness doctrine to me once. I don't quite remember how she explained it, but it made sense.
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Cool, I am glad I was able to help.
 
SonOfAdam

SonOfAdam

Senior Member
#35
Jan 1, 2002
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#35
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#36
#36
SonOfAdam said:
Oneness doctrine is heresy. Here's a little on it:
Oneness Pentecostalism
Refuting Oneness Pentecostalism

As for the trinity, there is information on that here:
Sermonaudio.com - Topics - Trinity
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It really doesn't matter to me what Trinitarians think about the truth of God. The Bible is my source for truth, and I make the same confession as Paul, believing God and His word, over the teachings of man.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#38
#38
onwingsaseagles said:
It really doesn't matter to me what Trinitarians think about the truth of God. The Bible is my source for truth, and I make the same confession as Paul, believing God and His word, over the teachings of man.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
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By the way, I am not a Oneness Pentecostal, and I do not agree with most of what they teach. I do agree with them on the Oneness doctrine, not because the Oneness Pentecostals teach it, but because the scripture itself tells us it is true.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#39
Jan 8, 2009
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#39
However Jesus was God in the flesh (not God the Son there is no such person in the Bible but the only God God the Father)
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
God The Father was manifest in the flesh as the Son
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I think you have read something into those scriptures that isn't there. It does not say Jesus was the Father, it says the Father was manifest (or shown) in the flesh of His Son. When we see the Son we see the Father. But the Father was still very much in heaven whilst Christ was on Earth. The voice from the clouds that spoke to Jesus was His Father speaking from heaven not Jesus speaking to himself. Never do any of the disciples call Jesus "father". Never did Jesus call himself Father. Jesus called Himself the Son. And in the words of the Lord prayer "Our father in heaven", not "our Father on earth"
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#40
#40
MahogonySnail said:
I think you have read something into those scriptures that isn't there. It does not say Jesus was the Father, it says the Father was manifest (or shown) in the flesh of His Son. When we see the Son we see the Father. But the Father was still very much in heaven whilst Christ was on Earth. The voice from the clouds that spoke to Jesus was His Father speaking from heaven not Jesus speaking to himself. Never do any of the disciples call Jesus "father". Never did Jesus call himself Father. Jesus called Himself the Son. And in the words of the Lord prayer "Our father in heaven", not "our Father on earth"
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I did not need to add to scripture or read anything into it , you do. I just accept it as written ''God manifest Himself in the flesh''. It does not say was ''shown through the son'' that is you adaptation to fit your view. If you accept it as written then you would understand that God Himsdelf was manifest in the flesh as the Son. You are right, God remained in Heaven, God became a man while remaining the omni present, eternal Spirit of Heaven and earth. (You see God can do that He is God) As far as Jesus not claiming to be the Father you are wrong. I have already posted His claim to Philip, but I will repost it in case you missed.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
 
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