The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

a few things to note.

1 Condemnation is due to LACK OF BELIEVE. ie, I can believe ad NOT be baptised in water and still be saved. Because the condemnation is ONLY due to not believing.

2. You asume baptism there means water, You need to stop your assumption. If unbelief causes condemnation. then true faith causes baptism (washing by the spirit (titus 3: 5) thus mark 16 is confirmed, and not contradictory.

I did have faith, and because of it I was baptised (by God. not another sinner) and thus I was saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so you believe in Christ and he tells you to do something if you disobey do you still consider yourself a believer?he tells us to be baptised it is not our work whatever he tells us to do is his work...if you make baptism your work then it becomes your work..How can you obey Jn 3:16 when you don't believe Mk 16:16 or Matt 28:19

Water baptism is NOT his work. It is YOUR WORK.

You are the one walking to the water, You are the one walking into the water. You are the one allowing another sinner to immerse you in water.

Spirit baptism is GODS work.

He places you into Christ, He places you into his death, He places you into his ressurection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is because your teaching is false and you see through your doctrine...

blah blah blah. You have anything important to say, or do you just want to attack?

 

[newbirth]

Water baptism is NOT his work. It is YOUR WORK.

You are the one walking to the water, You are the one walking into the water. You are the one allowing another sinner to immerse you in water.

Spirit baptism is GODS work.

He places you into Christ, He places you into his death, He places you into his ressurection.

Colossians 2:9-15Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All of God lives in Christ’s body, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and God has made you complete in Christ. Christ is in charge of every ruler and authority. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

 

[posthuman]

I am not misunderstanding you .....you have removed the order of God and replaced it with your own....

because i said God is able to save all who hear the word and receive it? man, i don't think you understand any of us.

you're still not answering my question.

an unbelieving astronaut's spaceship crashes on Mars. he has supplies to live for a few months, but rescue and communication are impossible. the rest of the crew dies, but one of the crew had brought a bible with him, and the marooned sinner spends his last living days reading it.

is he SOL because there's no liquid water on Mars? or is God mighty to save?

 

[elf3]

no wonder you are confused.....

I trust God above all ....simple...

again you assume...I know no Greek or Hebrew...I do look I do study...but above all I trust God....Without God Greek hebrew and bible study means nothing....

Funny cause I didn't assume, that's why I asked. I question is a question not an assumption.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Colossians 2:9-15Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All of God lives in Christ’s body, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and God has made you complete in Christ. Christ is in charge of every ruler and authority. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

Holy Spirit baptism. No water in that passage, Your adding a word not found.

It is ALL the work of God. Not your pastor or whoever dunked you in water.

 

[newbirth]

a few things to note.

1 Condemnation is due to LACK OF BELIEVE. ie, I can believe ad NOT be baptised in water and still be saved. Because the condemnation is ONLY due to not believing.

2. You asume baptism there means water, You need to stop your assumption. If unbelief causes condemnation. then true faith causes baptism (washing by the spirit (titus 3: 5) thus mark 16 is confirmed, and not contradictory.

I did have faith, and because of it I was baptised (by God. not another sinner) and thus I was saved.

and lack of believing is not being baptised...
you assume baptism does not mean water...and you assume faith causes....faith without works is dead...and the scripture says the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost....it does not say washing by the spirit...
[h=1][/h] [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
aligns beautifully with
And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

 

[elf3]

OK let me try this again...

Water baptism is man giving man recieving=work of man

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is God giving man recieving=work of God

 

[posthuman]

Colossians 2:9-15Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All of God lives in Christ’s body, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and God has made you complete in Christ. Christ is in charge of every ruler and authority. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

this is confirming what he says too. having been immersed in Christ we are immersed in His death and resurrection.

one note about verse 12 there --

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4916 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]syntaphentes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνταφέντες[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been buried with[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-APP-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-DM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]909 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]baptismō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βαπτισμῷ*,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]baptism,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ᾧ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]which[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]also[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4891 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]synēgerthēte[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνηγέρθητε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]you were raised with [him],[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIP-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dia[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]διὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4102 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πίστεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]faith[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1753 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]energeias[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐνεργείας[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]working[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of God,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the [One][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1453 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]egeirantos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐγείραντος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having raised[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-APA-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ek[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]out from[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3498 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nekrōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νεκρῶν·[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the dead.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GMP
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

the phrase "this happened when.."
is NOT found in the actual scripture.

i caution all of us to stay away from "paraphrase" bibles and stick to actual "translations" so we aren't deceived by human additions to the text.

 

[ChristIsGod]

I just wondered how this would look if we were all in one Church basement together doing all of this in person.


Wish it were happening that privately. I can see the smiles of those who "don't like this Jesus thing", eating their popcorn and watching the 'match' and laughing their heads off. Especially when that, "you're headed for Hell" part comes up. Can't you picture it? I mean really - picture what non-Christians must be saying.

Or the other types of 'religious' folks saying - "LOOK - they don't agree on much, do they - and Hey, what Do 'Christians' believe anyway?" Or - "Hey, if that's what happens when Christians get together - I sure as heck ain't goin' to their 'Church'!"

Before I was saved, I was very much like the world is now and I know if this was all that I saw of Christianity at that time -- Wellll -- thank God it wasn't.


But what did Jesus, HIMSELF tell everyone? - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."


Jesus, what is it that again, that You "commanded" us to do & teach?
We can't seem to stop fighting over what You've told us to do.
And Lord, is this how you meant for us to 'go' into all the world?

 

[posthuman]

Colossians 2:9-15Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All of God lives in Christ’s body, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and God has made you complete in Christ. Christ is in charge of every ruler and authority. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

pay attention also to verse 11 --

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
by putting off the body of the flesh,
by the circumcision of Christ

IN HIM -- Jesus is who we must be immersed in
MADE WITHOUT HANDS -- the work that saves is the work of God, not the work of man
THE CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST -- Christ circumcises the heart, not the foreskin. Christ baptizes with spirit, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

 

[newbirth]

Holy Spirit baptism. No water in that passage, Your adding a word not found.

It is ALL the work of God. Not your pastor or whoever dunked you in water.

show where you see holy spirit baptism....in that passage...the passage is explaining what happens at baptism...that is why it says through baptism and in baptism.....

 

[newbirth]

pay attention also to verse 11 --

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
by putting off the body of the flesh,
by the circumcision of Christ

IN HIM -- Jesus is who we must be immersed in
MADE WITHOUT HANDS -- the work that saves is the work of God, not the work of man
THE CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST -- Christ circumcises the heart, not the foreskin. Christ baptizes with spirit, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

now you read vs 12.....[SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

 

[posthuman]

I just wondered how this would look if we were all in one Church basement together doing all of this in person.


Wish it were happening that privately. I can see the smiles of those who "don't like this Jesus thing", eating their popcorn and watching the 'match' and laughing their heads off. Especially when that, "you're headed for Hell" part comes up. Can't you picture it? I mean really - picture what non-Christians must be saying.

Or the other types of 'religious' folks saying - "LOOK - they don't agree on much, do they - and Hey, what Do 'Christians' believe anyway?" Or - "Hey, if that's what happens when Christians get together - I sure as heck ain't goin' to their 'Church'!"

Before I was saved, I was very much like the world is now and I know if this was all that I saw of Christianity at that time -- Wellll -- thank God it wasn't.


But what did Jesus, HIMSELF tell everyone? - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."


Jesus, what is it that again, that You "commanded" us to do & teach?
We can't seem to stop fighting over what You've told us to do.
And Lord, is this how you meant for us to 'go' into all the world?

but no one here has ever said "disobey the commandments" -- everyone involved in the conversation has been baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O and most have even said so here in the thread. a page or two back you can see me explicitly encouraging everyone who believes to be baptized publicly in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O

the contention is over whether a ritual saves us or whether Christ saves us.

i'm with you though -- i'd rather be in person having a discussion. maybe then we wouldn't be misunderstood.

I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you!
(Galatians 4:20)

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Matthew 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[posthuman]

now you read vs 12.....[SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

the apostle is comparing it to the circumcision of Christ, which is without human hands.
of spirit, not flesh.

the baptism of Christ is by spirit, without human hands.
of spirit, not flesh.

flesh begets flesh. spirit begets spirit.

 

[newbirth]

this is confirming what he says too. having been immersed in Christ we are immersed in His death and resurrection.

one note about verse 12 there --

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4916 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]syntaphentes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνταφέντες[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been buried with[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-APP-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-DM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]909 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]baptismō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βαπτισμῷ*,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]baptism,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ᾧ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]which[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-DMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]also[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4891 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]synēgerthēte[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνηγέρθητε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]you were raised with [him],[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIP-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dia[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]διὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4102 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πίστεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]faith[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1753 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]energeias[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐνεργείας[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]working[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of God,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the [One][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1453 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]egeirantos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐγείραντος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having raised[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-APA-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ek[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]out from[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3498 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nekrōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νεκρῶν·[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the dead.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

the phrase "this happened when.."
is NOT found in the actual scripture.

i caution all of us to stay away from "paraphrase" bibles and stick to actual "translations" so we aren't deceived by human additions to the text.

it is clear you do not understand what it means to be buried with him in baptism....and EG wants to imply it is spirit baptism....

 

[newbirth]

the apostle is comparing it to the circumcision of Christ, which is without human hands.
of spirit, not flesh.

the baptism of Christ is by spirit, without human hands.
of spirit, not flesh.

flesh begets flesh. spirit begets spirit.

it says the circumcision of Christ, which is without human hands.....nothing about ..... the baptism of Christ is by spirit, without human hands.
of spirit, not flesh.
what you are implying here is far worst than... "this happened when.."

having been buried with him in baptism,...so baptism is spoken of as a burial here....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

show where you see holy spirit baptism....in that passage...the passage is explaining what happens at baptism...that is why it says through baptism and in baptism.....

explain where it says water?

Which baptism is it? the Baptism which God performs. or the baptism which man performs?

Why are you afraid to accept God can baptize us?? Is God incapable?