Salvation Not Possible Without Works

mailmandan · Oct 23, 2014

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the devils believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, not Jesus, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Believing in Jesus is more than just an intellectual acknowledgement to the existence and historical facts about Jesus. Believing in Jesus is trusting exclusively in Him as the all sufficient means of our salvation.

mailmandan · Oct 23, 2014

elf3 said:

Amen! Good post! In James 2:14, we read of one who says or claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith, which is a dead faith.

James certainly does teach that we are saved "by" works (in contradiction to Paul - Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8.9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. I will show you my faith by my works.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

In verse 24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God is righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

The harmony of James 2:24 with salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show or prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

BradC · Oct 23, 2014

What part of the following are some of you having a problem with? It is a declarative statement that is not debatable nor can it be interpreted in many different ways. Just examine the statement and see what it is saying objectively.

Eph 2:8,9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

'Saved' is dealing with (sozo) eternal salvation from perishing and the suffering associated with it. This salvation has come by 'grace', which is the favor of God that comes and is delivered through the vehicle of 'faith', which is a faith not of ourselves nor of 'works', on our part, but a gift of God. Salvation is life from God given and received by those who do not have it. It comes by grace, as the favor of God not merited or deserved by the recipient but appropriated by and through faith in the acknowledge work of another. This salvation comes as a 'gift' of God that is not in our honor but in honor of the finished work of his Son. God is the author of this gift of eternal salvation that is given through faith in honor of the work of his Son and not in honor of any work or works associated with the recipient.

Through faith the recipient receives, as the object, a gift of salvation by the action of God's grace as a once and for all completed act that can not be added to. The 'perfect tense' of the verb 'saved' is a completed action. The recipient did nothing to deserve or merit this salvation through any works on their part nor can they do any kind of 'works' including the works of the flesh to revoke, nullify or cancel what they have been given as a gift eternally by grace.

BradC · Oct 24, 2014

Matt1626 said:

Matt, the devils believe in one God (James 2:19) as do many people, because they know there is no other God but the Creator who is the God of Abraham, which takes care of all men, the Jew and the Gentile. We all know and believe that the earth revolves around only one sun and that the rain falls on the just and the unjust (Mt 5:45), it is self evident. The sun and the rain have a work to do and so do those who believe in the Son of God. Their work is to reveal the light of the only begotten Son of the Father and when they do that work they justify the Son and the purpose for which he was sent. The believer is already justified by the Son through faith, but through the work of faith his faith becomes alive from the dead making it a mature and complete faith with unity and oneness in the things of God.

A man is spiritually justified in his standing before the Father by faith in the work of the Son in terms of being made righteous, but his good works justifies his faith making it a living faith in the promises of God and justifies him in the work he has toward others. So our faith without the work of that faith has no life and is dead toward others. It is like this. The faith of the gospel reached us when we heard it being preached and made us alive in Christ. Now, it is our job to take that faith of the gospel as a work of the ministry and preach it to others that they might be also be made alive and justified from the wages of their sin. So a man is also justified by works and not by faith only. We show our faith by our works or else faith is left alone doing nothing.

francina · Oct 26, 2014

BradC said:

Well, it's the book of Ephesians, not just those two verses and the bible has 66 books that tells the whole counsel of God. The problem, in light of the entire Word of God, as Peter said, you are twisting Paul's words out of context since he is saying nothing different from any of the other disciples, including James.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[h=1]Acts 26:20 (AMP) But made known openly first of all to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout the whole land of Judea, and also among the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works and live lives consistent with and worthy of their repentance. How do we receive forgiveness? We MUST repent of our lifestyle of sin and turn to God & DO WORKS.[/h]
[h=1]1 John 3:10 (NIV) This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. (this is the topic in James 2 love MUST be practiced - good works).[/h]Grace being unmerited favor is not a concise definition, it's just a synonym of the word. That's twisting the meaning of a word that means almost the opposite. Grace is demonstrated in some way. Grace enables you to do the works you can not able to do on your own. So, no, it's not OUR works, but we STRIVE according to His Spirit in us. Not by our might but by His Spirit.
This is seen in these passages:
[h=1]John 3:21 (AMP) But he who practices truth [who does what is right] comes out into the Light; so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are—wrought with God [divinely prompted, done with God’s help, in dependence upon Him].[/h]Col 1:29 To get this done I toil and struggle, using the mighty strength which Christ supplies and which is at work in me.

Php 2:13 because God is always at work in you to make you willing and able to obey his own purpose.

This is thayers DEFINITION of the greek word:
the grace of God (the unmerited favor and merciful kindness by which God, exerting His holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, and keeps, strengthens, and increases them in Christian virtues).
My grace (My favor and loving-kindness and mercy) is enough for you [sufficient against any danger and enables you (2 Cor.12:9)

BradC · Oct 27, 2014

francina said:

I want you to tell me how you understand this passage of scripture that came from the mouth of our Saviour as it pertains to the two men that went to the temple to pray and only one went home justified. Notice how his justification before God came to be, especially in relationship to the Pharisee. Please focus on the publican, his heart and what God did for him and please note if you see any works on the publican's part that was responsible for his justification. Is this passage also part of the whole counsel of God for our understanding?

Luke 18:10-14 AMPLIFIED

10 Two men went up into the temple [enclosure] to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men—extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers—or even like this tax collector here.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.
13 But the tax collector, [merely] standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but kept striking his breast, saying, O God, be favorable (be gracious, be merciful) to me, the especially wicked sinner that I am!
14 I tell you, this man went down to his home justified (forgiven and made upright and in right standing with God), rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.

BradC · Oct 27, 2014

I would also like to say that anyone who does not receive God's salvation by grace through faith will never have the Spirit to be able to love their brother or even lay their life down for him. God works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. That is an ongoing work for which we have three things... 1) the word, 2) the Spirit and 3) the body of Christ. None of the good works produced in us is to justify us before the Father. The only work that justifies us before the Father is the work of the Son who was crucified for our sin, was buried with our sin and was raised for our justification without our sin.

That is the perfect finished work of Christ that we put our utter trust in for complete justification from all sin, past, present and future. When we trust in this work, as a once and for all act of faith, we are justified from all sin with absolutely no works on our part whatsoever and to think otherwise is adding to that work which was complete and finished by our Lord and Saviour. This is how we are forgiven, BY FAITH, and through the shed blood, ALSO BY FAITH, which cleanses us from ALL SIN! When we are cleansed we are justified and now we need only our walk to be continually cleansed and washed by the water of the word (Eph 5:26) as we grow in grace and knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 3:18). Did not our Lord illustrate this with his disciples in (John 13:1-17)?

francina · Oct 28, 2014

BradC said:

I already informed you what grace is, the purpose of grace is to cause us to be able to live a godly life because without holiness no man will see the Lord. Holiness is not possible without works. We are slaves to righteousness now if we are truly saved. As Paul wrote Rom 3:31 Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the Law? No, not at all; instead, we uphold the Law. Only he that doeth (infinitive) righteousness is righteous, not by simply saying, 'Jesus paid it all' and resting in that alone. That scripture is clear as crystal, so much so that every time I post it here not one person has dared to address it.
1Jhn 3:7 Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.(amp)
1 Peter 2:24 (NIV)“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness
Rom 6:16 Surely you know that when you surrender yourselves as slaves to obey someone, you are in fact the slaves of the master you obey---either of sin, which results in death, or of obedience, which results in being put right with God.
Mat 5:20 I tell you, then, that you will be able to enter the Kingdom of heaven only if you are more faithful than the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees in doing what God requires.

1Jn 3:10 Here is the clear difference between God's children and the Devil's children: those who do not do what is right or do not love others are not God's children!

Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God.
1Jn 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

As for your passage one had a broken and contrite spirit the other one was a Pharisee, they were not righteous, Jesus always told them that.
Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

From all the letters that went around from the time of Philip the Evangelist and the leaders of the early church, it is proven that they taught this. No leader in the church taught what you are saying until Martin Luther came around. I would stick to the doctrine of the Jesus and the Apostles not what is so popular today. Especially when Jesus prophesied and all the apostles warned of deception that will come and is here.

Atwood · Oct 28, 2014

Salvation is not possible without a bunch of deceivers trying to confuse the issue.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves,

NOT OF WORKS,

lest a CC heretic should boast.

That means human works of course, not the works of Christ, which do save. In fact He saves to the uttermost. And saved means saved -- it doesn't mean depraved-chance-at-it if you beez a good boy.

The reason why works can't save is that sinners have no good works until they get saved. NOw if we put you in a mortar and marred you there with a pestle on the noggin, would you ever get it? There is none who does good, no not one.

John 3
even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes on him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only Son of God. . . .

He who believes on the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say to you, He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6
Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes on me shall never thirst. But I said to you, that you have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father gives me shall come to me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who who beholds the Son and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.

John 10
But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and
I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . . .

BradC · Oct 28, 2014

francina said:

BradC said:

You avoided the above passage and made no reference to it or how you understand it as it came from the lips of Jesus Christ. That is being fraudulent in handling the scriptures when you have made reference to the whole counsel of God. Either you consider the passage above or you reject it with negligence.

Jabberjaw · Oct 28, 2014

BradC said:

The publican had the works of humility, the passage teaches humility and against arrogance and hypocrisy, the works of the arrogance of being seen by men, note how many times the Pharisee says "I", yes when you include the entire counsel of God, you will find it teaches the same as these passages and not as you try and twist it to be:

(Matt 6:5 [NKJV])
“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

(Matt 23:5 [NKJV])
“But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.

(Luke 11:44 [NKJV])
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over [them] are not aware [of them.]”

The passages you post have both works of humility, and works of hypocrisy, and does show salvation is not possible without righteous works.

BradC · Oct 29, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

The story is also about the publican and his justification. He pleaded with God for mercy as a sinner and went home justified from sin. There was no works on his part, only faith in the mercy of God. His justification came by faith in the mercy of God and not in any work of righteousness. The publican was make righteous by faith and not by any works in this illustration that was given by the Lord. Some of you need to see this but there is something blinding and hindering your faith.

francina · Oct 29, 2014

BradC said:

I did answer it. I know you can read. You did not respond to any scriptures i used. Jesus preached against sin. He preached as did all the prophets before Him including John the Baptist, "Repent/Turn from your sin and turn to God". One man did repent, the other one did not. His Words are in harmony with all the other God-breathed scriptures of the bible. There is no new revelation.
So many say Paul had a new revelation. He did not, his revelation was Jesus Christ. Jesus said the scriptures of the old testament spoke of Him. Peter said, Paul did not teach anything different from any other apostle. He just went to the Gentiles.
If the whole bible preaches against sin through every writer, how is it that you are looking for a few scriptures to say something different. To be saved one must REPENT. You stop living for the devil and you live for God.

francina · Oct 29, 2014

How can you say you BELIEVE in Jesus and ignore what He taught. A believer is a disciple is a follower, is obedient, faithful, loyal. A believer is one who listens and learns and obeys the instructions of his master. He dedicates himself to following in his teachers ways. You can not separate belief from obedience. The book of Hebrews constantly interchanges those two words when speaking of Israel not believing and their disobedience and warning us that we must believe AND NOT FALL INTO THE SAME EXAMPLE OF SIN.
You see Paul describes this life as a WAY. He compares us to soldiers following orders, runners in a race running by the rules to win a prize. This is not something you feel. This faith is lived. Faith without works is false and can not save you.

Jabberjaw · Oct 29, 2014

BradC said:

Where do you see faith applied to one and not the other?

Both could be said to have faith or they would not be praying to God.

It is the righteous works of humility that the publican "did" that justified him, and the unrighteous works of the Pharisee displaying his hypocritical better than thou attitude (which can be seen right away in Luke 18:11)

Both displayed works, but righteous works are what justified the publican, just as Abraham

James 2:21 (NKJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

James 2:24 (NKJV)
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

konroh · Oct 30, 2014

Unless we see the distinction made in Scripture of past justification/salvation which is by faith apart from works and present sanctification/salvation which is by works growing my faith there will never be consensus.

We are saved.
We are being saved.
We will be saved.

Different biblical verses point at times to these three different but converging realities.

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

konroh said:

Unless we see the distinction made in Scripture of past justification/salvation which is by grace through faith apart from works of the LAW

and present sanctification/salvation which is by grace through faith with works there will never be consensus.

The Good news of Christ is the power of his resurrection...which we have access to ...through faith.....by repentance and remission of sins....and the gift of the HS...this is the way he ordained it to be...this is the promise
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

SweetShelly35 · Nov 23, 2014

Christians are not "of" the world. (Jn 17:18 As you have sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.) We're sent here on a mission to feed His sheep. (Jn 21:17) We must share the good news so that others can be born again. Don't be influenced by this world, but an influencer of this world. Our mission here has eternal purpose.
So our mission here is to work hard to share the gospel, but it is by grace alone that we go to heaven.

newbirth · Nov 23, 2014

SweetShelly35 said:

we are saved by grace through faith...where does the scripture teach ... it is by grace alone that we go to heaven

Ephesians 2:4-8King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Straightshot · Nov 23, 2014

Salvation is not possible with works .... any who think so will end up here [Revelation 20:11-15]

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