The Loaded Gun

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crossnote said:
Big difference.
The child had a sinful nature;Adam and Eve did not. That's why Breno's #3 addition was needed...."You might
want a add a stranger walked into the house and deceived the boy into playing with the gun by twisting his fathers words."
Click to expand...

If God knew that Adam and Eve had been deceived; then why do you feel that He was so angry at them that He not only punished them, but kicked them out out the Garden of Eden?

Adam and Eve were like naïve children who played with the loaded gun their father left on the living room table. Should he had really been so angry at them as to damn all of mankind?

Even when I was a small child, I wondered this.
 
And the Lord God said, "Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Gen 3:22

That is why he expelled them Chapel, please also note that God made them clothes so even in their sin He was exceedingly gracious too them.
 
breno785au,

And placed a cherubim and a flaming sword around the tree to guard it. Yes.

Thank you for making an attempt to aid me in my dilemma. I really want to question your comment about God being "exceedingly gracious"...but for the sake of not seeming argumentative, I will not.

Besides, it wouldn't matter anyway.

***

I am at somewhat of a loss, and it makes this stirring within me only worse.

I try to sit and ask Christians questions to help break theses chains holding me back from giving myself completely. Because of my past, it is NOT easy as everyone tries to make it seem...I can't just "let go". I hate it when people say "just let go and let God"...because that minimizes my experiences and give an excuse to not answer the questions that plague me.

I have tried reading the Bible...it does not answer the questions; only frustrates me and adds MORE questions that go unanswered.

I have tried to "pray" (as everyone always suggests) for understanding, but those prayers go unanswered; like pretty much every other prayer.

I come here, to Christian Chat from time to time, really hoping that I could possibly find an open-minded person to discuss things with...as I have had no luck in church. But if the point I'm trying to prove isn't completely missed or ignored (which is the case most of the time) there is always attempts to deflect the questions with Bible verses.

It seem that the only thought provoking conversations I can get in are with non-Christians, because their minds don't seem to be as closed or restricted. These conversations are NOT at all filled with God-bashing blasphemy; but touch one a level of understanding that Christians can't seem to achieve.

But even then; in the end there is no resolution.

Hey. I really, really appreciate you trying though; you seem to be a pretty good guy. Thanks again breno785au!
 
Chapel, you said you had a question about God being exceedingly gracious but didn't ask it. I'm curious as to what the question is anyway...I also get what you mean by questions and answers leading to other questions, it seems never ending lol I myself have questions for God about things that I haven't received the answer to yet but I also have received answers to questions I asked months or even years earlier! Lol, sometimes the answers don't come straight away but in this life and in the age to come I think there will always be questions and id say it comes down to where your faith lies, if it lies in having all questions answered before you believe then you will never believe. I saw on your profile that you are unsure of your spiritual status, does that still mean your a christian? Or your agnostic? If i can ask?
 
Breno785au,

I am not Agnostic, because an Agnostic is neither committed or uncommitted to the belief to the belief in God. I absolutely, 100% believe in God.

I am not a Christian; because to be a Christian I would have to believe that God is all loving, all merciful, and is filled with nothing but good intention for us. I do not believe this.

As far as my opposite view on Gods graciousness is concerned, it goes back to my original post.

Allow me to put it this way:

If I were to punch you in the face for no good reason, breaking your nose...then give you an ice pack for the swelling and a ride to the hospital...would that make me gracious? I did give you the ice pack, and I did make sure you got medical attention, heck I might even pay your hospital bill...but none of those things change the fact that you are there in the first place; suffering as a result of my actions.

There was NO need for the tree.

I don't blame God for the fall of man, but what kills me is how Christians can believe that a GOD...who has all power, all knowledge, and created all...has absolutely no hand in any of this misery that takes place in our world. Everything good...is of God. Everything bad...is Satan's fault...is Man's fault, it's Adam and Eve's fault! Everyone has a hand in the bad condition of our world EXCEPT for CREATOR of the UNIVERSE, who is beyond more powerful than the others I have named.

How realistic is that?

And it annoys me when people say "Jesus died for OUR sins".

From the moment you and I and everyone else are born, we have natural impulses encoded in our DNA...urges we have to battle with every day of our lives...then we are told "that is YOUR sin...that is YOUR fault...that is YOUR choice. Not only are given sinful impulses, but we are raised up in a world where there is sin and temptation at every corner. Then told by the Christian world "you must resist your nature, you must resist the world! And if you don't...then you will go to Hell...and you deserve it because you are a sinner!"

It is SO frustrating, and SO unfair.

On a personal note:

I am an ultra-lustful person; it is a daily struggle I endure. I can't describe to you the self-loathing I feel when I see a woman half necked or wearing skin tight clothing...which is darn near everywhere I look. I honestly hate the impulses of my mind and body; I want to cut my eyes from their sockets, I want to cut this lust from my body! I don't WANT to be this way, I did not ask nor CHOOSE to be this way. Yet I am.

How is this MY sin? The Christian faith dictates that it is my fault I am way I am; that I choose to be a sinner and I deserve to burn for it.

No.

I did not choose this.
 
I understand your reply and have some idea of how you feel. Sexual purity has been the hardest thing in my walk with God over the years, I've spent years beating myself up over my sin and what had it done me? Not one iota of good. Then God showed me I was trying to walk it out in my own strength, each day I have to asl Jesus for help for He is able to sympethise in our weakeness'. And He does, He gives me the strength and desire to not look at women in a wrong manner.

I'm currently cooking and looking after my two year old son so I can't really reply in great detail but I have a question.

If you think about or picture God, what do you see/think?
 
breno785au said:
If you think about or picture God, what do you see/think?
Click to expand...

The part of my previous post where I noted my own personal struggle, was the least of what I was trying to express; I was only using it as an example to touch on a bigger point.

But answer your question: I picture God differently than Christians. Physically, when God stated "let us make man in our image", I don't think it meant that He made us to look the same way that He looks in appearance but rather in His mind He had a image of how He felt we should look. In the Muslim religion, it is frowned upon to try depicting physical features of God because He is bigger and greater than us, and there is no possible way we can know how He truly looks. Our minds are not capable if imagining such a thing. I think in our culture we presumed to be male because it is easier to perceive a male to be dominant; but I doubt that He is male or female as we see it.

My views on the nature of His Character is different as well. I feel He does not "need" us per say, but He does...for whatever reason...strongly desire for His ego to be stroked. Whether it is us, or the rocks and trees, He will get this one way or another. Our very existence seems only to entertain or to make Him feel good about Himself. We are supposed to strive to "have a relationship with HIM", to"honor HIM", to "obey HIM", "do HIS will", to love "HIM", to "put HIM first, "dedicate our lives to "HIM". And if we do not use our supposed "free will" do what He wants us to do with it...then we can go to Hell...literally.

He doesn't care. If we don't serve His purpose then He has no need for us. He proved that in the Bible with the dozens of cities He had destroyed and countless people He had slaughtered because they didn't use their...um..."free will"...the way that HE wanted them to.

But He is God, and there is no way I could win in a fight with Him. He will win in the end.

So while I DO submit to Him; I do not see Him as an all loving, all gracious God, but an entity that is more like us as people would like to think...in terms of His Character. He pulls the strings, and will cut them after He has grown tired of us...again.
 
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