Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[crossnote]

"That dude that crossnote quoted claiming that the Almighty does NOT sit on the throne of David is robbing Jesus of His glory and teaching likewise to His sons and daughters. And Jesus will not give His glory to another. Again, God is eternal. He either sat on the throne of David from everlasting, or He doesn't sit there, ever. So which is it?"

That 'dude' happened to be James in Acts quoting the prophet Amos.


Acts 15:14-16
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

 

[SoulWeaver]

I was not talking about the scriptures, but that person you quoted.

 

[crossnote]

Its a pity that the Muslims believe more than some Christians do.They have barred the gate and put a graveyard in front of it because no Holy man would step on graves they say. Interesting...

Whooweee, great insight.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass

Be aware that the Lord does keep His promises without fail

Those who do not turn to Him of Israel will end up here just like any Gentile who refuses [Revelation 20:11-15]

Be glad that He can be trusted ... if not, He could arbitrarily withdraw His promise of salvation to us

None of us deserve .... and have been just as intransigent as Israel

God does keep His promises but His land promise was CONDITIONAL not UNconditional, Josh 23:14-16. God promised them if they disobeyed Him he would remove them OFF the land. They disobeyed and God kept that promise and removed them OFF the land.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Its a pity that the Muslims believe more than some Christians do.

And now that is not throwing offenses?

 

[Straightshot]

My comments

Those who attempt to shove the unfulfilled portions of the prophets visions regarding Israel into the past must then make metaphorical mush out of the balance

These are generally preteristic thinkers .... and also replacement theologists who do this thing .... not a good idea

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Joshua 23:14-16 their remaining on the land was CONDITIONAL upon their obeying God. God did not promise the land UNconditionally.


Josh 23:14 "And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you,and not one thing hath failed thereof."

God ALREADY fulfilled (past tense) the land promise so there is no future promises to be fulfilled. God will not re-fullfill His promises that are already fulfilled.

Josh 23:15 "Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you."

Josh 23:16 "When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you."

They disobeyed God and God removed them OFF the land. They are not OFF the land if they are still ON it.

Josh 21:43 "And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein."

Josh 21:44 "And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand."

Josh 21:45 "There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."

God gave them ALL the land, they possessed ALL the land God promised them and ALL the Lord promised came to pass.

No land promises or land possession will happen in the future, ALL CAME TO PASS...the promise and possession has already happened, already fulfilled and will not happen again. Premillennialism cannot be true.

Furthermore, God promised them 6 cities of refuge (Num 35), God would "enlarge thy coast" Deut 19:7-9 with 3 cities and add 3 more cities promised later. Josh 20:1-8 shows that all SIX cities were appointed and God's promised FULFILLED. Proof the land promise was FULFILLED completely with these promises belonging to the past, not the future.

why thank you for telling us what we have been saying all along.

According to the mosaic covenant, If they wanted to remain in the land that was theirs, they would have to obey God If Not, God would take THEIR land, and give it to the heathen (gentile) But he promised he would never forget his promise to them, and if one day they repented, he would remember his promise, and return them to their own land.

You got the first part right, you ignore the second part. which is your problem.

 

[prove-all]

The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,”Christ, and of salvation through Him
the Bible calls the scepter.

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah …” (Genesis 49:10).
But the birthright was Joseph’s” (1 Chronicles 5:2).

But the material and national promises relating to many
nations, national wealth, prosperity and power, and possession
of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.some of God’s Promises to Abrahams physical decendents.

¦Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.
¦Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.
¦Genesis 22:16-18 | God promises that the birthright nations among Abraham’s descendants
will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.
¦Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.
¦Genesis 27:26-29 | God promises the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.
¦Genesis 28:13-14 | God promises that the birthright nations will spread worldwide.
¦Genesis 35:11 | God promises that the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”


Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel
specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh,

saying that one of these descendants would become a “great” people,
and that the other would become a “multitude of nations”.

only Judah has there land back, not the other lost 10 tribes

has all those promises been fullfiled ?

 

[crossnote]

I am strongly inclined to understand it spiritually, brother crossnote, but again there is no way for either of us to definitely prove it.
I will respect your opinion on it and try to explain why I see things the other way.
Imo this relates to Jesus standing on the Mount of Olives as He prayed in Gethsimane.
He was just about to take on and fight against the entire hell!
The rift opened for the believers to flee from the enemy and find shelter in God.

If you go into the Old testament and translate the names of these nations (Jebusites and others), it is always some sort of sinning against God.

this exemplifies the problems one runs into when 'spiritualizing' the texts. Take another look at what happens with the valley...didn't happen during his prayer in Gethsemane. ..

Zechariah 14:3-4
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[kaylagrl]

Whooweee, great insight.

Did I win the internet today? lol lol I need a happy today.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I agree with you gratefull and also believe the land is the one Jesus preached to them, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven. He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. To return them into the land.
It is still wide open to them yes, if they will repent.

 

[kaylagrl]

And now that is not throwing offenses?

Ah no,not throwing out offenses.Its a fact that Muslims have barred the gate.Now people are taking offense at everything said.I believe eternal means eternal.If you believe differently thats your right and freedom to do.

 

[SoulWeaver]

this exemplifies the problems one runs into when 'spiritualizing' the texts. Take another look at what happens with the valley...didn't happen during his prayer in Gethsemane. ..

Zechariah 14:3-4
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I believe it did... it was the Judgment.
As Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath... He drank His Judgment for the sins of the whole world.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with you gratefull and also believe the land is the one Jesus preached to them, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven. He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. To return them into the land.
It is still wide open to them yes, if they will repent.

thank you. Yes it is, And we agree they have not repented yet. but are still in sin.

Our contention seems to be, Did God prophesy one day they will repent, Because of the mas tribulations caused on earth at that time (also called jacob's trouble) and at the end, will Jesus destroy the gentile kingdoms (beasts) and set up his throne in Isreal, where he will rule with a rod of Iron.

 

[crossnote]

Did I win the internet today? lol lol I need a happy today.

Yes you did but this thread is moving so fast I'm 3 months behind sending out the cookies...your computer will be infected in due time

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe it did... it was the Judgment.
As Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath... He drank His Judgment for the sins of the whole world.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

i can sort of see how you could see this,

but what does that say about prophesy? you can not prove God prophesied that to happen, and then that was fulfilled. you can say, yeah he said this, and this proves it, yet it does not, because it is not a literal event.

even nostrodomas can prophesy like that

only a literal fulfiment that no one could question would be of any use to a prophet, and to God. would you not agree?

 

[SeaBass]

thats the point you do not Get.

Rom 11 says they (as a nation) will do that very thing.

You think we are teaching God will return them in a state of unbelief and sin? lol maybe you should try listening instead of assuming.

Only a remnant of the Jews obeyed the gospel in Acts 2, most rejected it and were lost.


Romans 9 (when not wrested by Calvinists) refutes Pre-millennialism.

In Rom 9, Paul already knows that God has not only cast off fleshly Israel but grafted in the Gentiles. Before making the plain statement that fleshly Israel has been cast off and Gentiles grafted in [Rom 11], what Paul does in Romans 9 is to first refute the arguments he knew the Jews would have in God casting them off. Paul goes to great length using irrefutable, air-tight logic that God was just and righteous in not only in casting off the Jews but also grafting in the Gentiles. One argument Paul makes in Rom 9 is " I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Paul's point is God can choose or not choose whomever He wants, God is not obligated to any person or nation. God could choose the Gentiles to salvation if he wants to. Pre-millennialism says God is obligated to choose the Jews yet Paul said He is not.

 

[kaylagrl]

I charge anyone to look at the map of Israel. Surrounded on every side by her enemies. Yet still she stands.How can that not be the hand of God?! Look at the history of how Israel became a country.Is that not the hand of God? A land that was desert,look at pictures before it became Israel.Barren desert. Now "blooming again" as the Bible says. I just cant understand how people cannot see Gods blessing is still on Israel.

 

[crossnote]

I believe it did... it was the Judgment.
As Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath... He drank His Judgment for the sins of the whole world.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Like we keep saying, if you go that route spiritualizing the texts, you can make them say ANYTHING YOU WANT THEM TO SAY.

 

[SoulWeaver]

thank you. Yes it is, And we agree they have not repented yet. but are still in sin.

Our contention seems to be, Did God prophesy one day they will repent, Because of the mas tribulations caused on earth at that time (also called jacob's trouble) and at the end, will Jesus destroy the gentile kingdoms (beasts) and set up his throne in Isreal, where he will rule with a rod of Iron.

I must agree with the Scriptures, they say that they will repent.
I see them in the parable of the prodigal son. They are just in prodigal state but God will rejoice the most for them when they return... because it took so much to bring them back to Him. They are lost and then will be found. Who am I to say who is His favorite? I will love whom He loves and favor whom He favors. But right now they are the sinagogue of satan, as well as all that reject Jesus from any other nation.

I believe these other events to be true too, that they have already been fulfilled in Jesus for the most part. He has received the Kingdom and authority.
There might be more literal applications of the prophecy to happen in the last days that I am currently missing.
But I believe the "land" of the Jews is pretty much the one that Jesus preached.