Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[john832]

Again, if the Jews had believed God they would have known that Christ was the Messiah and would have believed, yet they did not believe God and crucified the Messiah.

If they had believed the OT prophets of God, how could they not have known Jesus was the Messiah?

But they couldn't believe God, it was not given to them...

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

They were blinded so that God could have mercy on them at the Last Great Day.

 

[crossnote]

The land covenant was CONDITIONAL, Josh 23:14-16. Where did God say they could disobey Him yet STAY on the land anyway?

What makes an unconditional covenant has nothing to do with temporary conditions put on the subjects of the covenant but on the unconditional promise by the maker of the covenant that He will ultimately bring the promises to pass, regardless of the unfaithfulness of the 2nd party.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are mentioning repentance.
Just to get what I am hearing from you, are you just saying repenting of sins to return to the land or are you considering the acceptance and belief of Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

Because to me they have not done either. There are still a lot of Jews who walk in sin of unbelief, and still to this day do not accept Jesus as being the Messiah. Some label Him as a great teacher or prophet, but if you try to say more about Him they run you out and tell you to stop blaspheming.

and i would agree with you

 

[SeaBass]

God is eternal.
He either sits on the throne of David, or He doesn't, ever.

Jer 22:28 "Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?"

Jer 22:29 "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."

Jer 22:30 "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Jesus is of the seed of Coniah Mt 1:11,12 (Jechonias) meaning Christ will NEVER sit on an earthly throne of David and rule.

 

[SeaBass]

What? No Millennium and no Last Great Day?

Pre-millennialism is false.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Jer 22:28 "Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?"

Jer 22:29 "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."

Jer 22:30 "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Jesus is of the seed of Coniah Mt 1:11,12 (Jechonias) meaning Christ will NEVER sit on an earthly throne of David and rule.

Great point. And I agree with you. The throne of the Beloved is in Heaven.

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote, that would be mostly what Jesus said would happen in the Gospels.
There surely will be some literal "comingz to pass"...
I just believe that the "land" that is to be restored to Jews is the land that Jesus preached (not a worldly kingdom but fulfilling the will of the Father on EARTH).

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Makes one think about how to interpret that "thousand years". That's why I dont believe in the most versions I'm hearing.

Acts 1:6-7
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Notice the disciples having been with Jesus for 3 years plus 40 days after the resurrection still looked forward to the literal Kingdom and Jesus did not rebuke them but only said, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons".

As far as the one day is as (not 'is'), it's only in reference to the timelessness of God.

 

[SeaBass]

You have given opinion and I quoted the author of Hebrews (Paul?) who quoted Jeremiah. It is stated both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament that the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah.

That new covenant is the NT and under the NT one must become a Christian to be saved. So for Jews and Gentiles to be saved they must obey the gospel and become a Christian.
In Acts 15:11 Peter said Jews and Gentiles are saved in "like manner". That like manner way is by obeying the gospel, Jews in Acts 2:38 and Gentiles in Acts 10:47,48. No Jews or Gentiles will be saved in any "millennium" but must be saved now in this present and last dispensation, the Christian dispensation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Jer 22:28 "Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?"

Jer 22:29 "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."

Jer 22:30 "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Jesus is of the seed of Coniah Mt 1:11,12 (Jechonias) meaning Christ will NEVER sit on an earthly throne of David and rule.

Where does Jesus rule from then when He comes again and reigns for 1,000 years on earth before He releases Satan again ?

 

[john832]

Jesus has fulfilled all the law and all the prophets and received the authority (BOTH the rod of iron and the gentle rod of a good Shepherd) and married Jerusalem, His lovely spotless Queen.

That does not occur until the second coming...

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

That dude that crossnote quoted claiming that the Almighty does NOT sit on the throne of David is robbing Jesus of His glory and teaching likewise to His sons and daughters. And Jesus will not give His glory to another. Again, God is eternal. He either sat on the throne of David from everlasting, or He doesn't sit there, ever. So which is it?

He does not sit on David's throne right now, He will do so at the second coming and into the Millennium...

At the time of Jeremiah, those sitting on the throne...

Jer 13:13 Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.

When does Christ sit on that throne?

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

when the Father gives it to Him. Currently, He is sitting on the throne of His Father...

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Let's notice two things in the above passage...

Verse 35 - UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool

And where is David?

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

In fact, he is still in his grave...

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Now something very interesting happens to David at the resurrection...

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

I'll bet you think that the one king is Christ. Well, you thought wrong...

Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Christ comes back to earth to become King of Kings and raises David up to be King over all of Israel. What do you mean raise up? Raise up from what?

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

From the dead.

Because you guys refuse to stop for a moment and think about what I posted, just replying without understanding, this really begins to sound silly.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Job 23:7 There the righteous (=Savior) might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge.

I bless you in Jesus' name and hope your eyes will be opened.

What really begins to sound silly are theories that contradict straightforward scripture.

 

[john832]

That new covenant is the NT and under the NT one must become a Christian to be saved. So for Jews and Gentiles to be saved they must obey the gospel and become a Christian.
In Acts 15:11 Peter said Jews and Gentiles are saved in "like manner". That like manner way is by obeying the gospel, Jews in Acts 2:38 and Gentiles in Acts 10:47,48. No Jews or Gentiles will be saved in any "millennium" but must be saved now in this present and last dispensation, the Christian dispensation.

So again, that teaching writes off billions who have lived prior to this "present and last dispensation". It also writes off the billions who will be born and live their lives during the Millennial reign of Christ.

 

[john832]

Jer 22:28 "Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?"

Jer 22:29 "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."

Jer 22:30 "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Jesus is of the seed of Coniah Mt 1:11,12 (Jechonias) meaning Christ will NEVER sit on an earthly throne of David and rule.

Me thinks you overlooked this...

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

 

[SoulWeaver]

Acts 1:6-7
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Notice the disciples having been with Jesus for 3 years plus 40 days after the resurrection still looked forward to the literal Kingdom and Jesus did not rebuke them but only said, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons".

As far as the one day is as (not 'is'), it's only in reference to the timelessness of God.

I see where you're coming from, but still it does not prove Jesus talked about the earthly kingdom, just the time when they would finally repent and follow Him. He was probably tired of explaining as well because they took everything He said literally, until the Spirit opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

I'm still not convinced it will be a literal thousand years. It might be. None of us can prove how it should be understood. But I wish I'd find more assurance for it. I am really inclined to understand it spiritually.
Until I run into a better explanations, I trust that thousand eather means "forever" or His (To)Day... (same thing)

 

[prove-all]

Jer 22:28 "Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?"

Jer 22:29 "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."

Jer 22:30 "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Jesus is of the seed of Coniah Mt 1:11,12 (Jechonias) meaning Christ will NEVER sit on an earthly throne of David and rule.

“The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet(Judah’s descendants),
until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.”(Christ gathers all people)

“For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want [or lack] a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel

Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.


“And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah”

“And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut;
and he shall shut, and none shall open”

 

[SoulWeaver]

Me thinks you overlooked this...

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

You are both correct, the throne of the Beloved is in Heaven. God does not contradict Himself.
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are both correct, the throne of Beloved is in Heaven. God does not contradict Himself.

Yes His throne is in heaven, but our Lord Jesus will sit and rule here on earth for a thousand years.
So what throne will He sit and rule from during those 1,000 years as heaven and the new Jerusalem will not be here yet ?

 

[crossnote]

I see where you're coming from, but still it does not prove Jesus talked about the earthly kingdom, just the time when they would finally repent and follow Him. He was probably tired of explaining as well because they took everything He said literally, until the Spirit opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

I'm still not convinced it will be a literal thousand years. It might be. None of us can prove how it should be understood. But I wish I'd find more assurance for it. I am really inclined to understand it spiritually.
Until I run into a better explanations, I trust that thousand eather means "forever" or His (To)Day... (same thing)

I was thinking about this the other day, but Scripture says, " at the end of the 1000 years" (satan is loosed), so it couldn't be eternal.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Yes His throne is in heaven, but our Lord Jesus will sit and rule here on earth for a thousand years.
So what throne will He sit and rule from during those 1,000 years as heaven and the new Jerusalem will not be here yet ?

He is already on the throne in Heaven and ruling.
The New Jerusalem is YOU and all the born again in Him.

 

[SeaBass]

Uh, what about those who do not know Christ and are blind to that understanding by no fault of their own...

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Do you think Paul dreamed this up on His own?

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul received this understanding from Christ directly. What understanding?

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Their fault? It was not given for them to understand.

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

I speak to them in parables so they see not and hear not nor do they understand. Christ carefully cloaked the truth in parables to hide it from the masses.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

There is a misquoted and misunderstood scripture concerning this...

2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

See? Right there it says this is the only day of salvation. In actuality, it says no such thing. It is a quote from Isaiah...

Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Notice the article? In A day of salvation. If this is the only day of salvation and if you believe scripture...

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Then you have consigned billions of people to hell who never had a chance at salvation. There is another day of salvation. Not a second chance, but the first chance billions of people will ever have. It is the Last Great Day and we read of it in Rev 20:11-12.

People are not lost because they did not hear about Christ/the gospel, they are lost because of their sins. Those Gentiles in Rom 2 blinded themselves to God's existence even though there was sufficient proof of God.

They could not understand the parables for they refused to believe in Christ it was not the the parables were totally not understandable for they could understand if they believed. Christ goes on to say in v15 they closed their own eyes and ears.

Adam Clarke puts it:

On this account, viz. to lead them into a proper knowledge of God. I speak to them in parables, natural representations of spiritual truths, that they may be allured to inquire, and to find out the spirit, which is hidden under the letter; because, seeing the miracles which I have wrought, they see not, i.e. the end for which I have wrought them; and hearing my doctrines, they hear not, so as to profit by what is spoken; neither do they understand.... they do not lay their hearts to it. Is not this obviously our Lord's meaning? Who can suppose that he would employ his time in speaking enigmatically to them, on purpose that they might not understand what was spoken? Could the God of truth and sincerity act thus? If he had designed to act otherwise, he might have saved his time and labour, and not spoken at all, which would have answered the same end, viz. to leave them in gross ignorance.

As Clark points out, if it was the intent of Christ for them not to understand then just not say anything to them at all leaving them ignorant and lost.


In 2 Cor 6:2 Paul is not saying there is one specific day in the future to be saved but is referring to the gospel age by the terms "day of salvation" and "NOW is the acceptable time". There is an urgency for one to obey the gospel today and be saved (Heb 3:7,13) for no one is promised tomorrow.

" in the day of salvation" Barnes says this means the time God is disposed to show salvation for that time will eventually end.
Barnes "In a time accepted". In Isaiah, "in an acceptable time." The idea is, that he had prayed in a time when God was disposed to show mercy; the time when in his wise arrangements he had designed that his salvation should be extended to the world...It is a time which he had fixed as the appropriate period for extending the knowledge of his truth and his salvation; and it proves that there was to be a period which was the favourable period of salvation, that is, which God esteemed to be the proper period for making his salvation known to men. At such a period the Messiah would pray, and the prayer would be answered."

 

[SoulWeaver]

I was thinking about this the other day, but Scripture says, " at the end of the 1000 years" (satan is loosed), so it couldn't be eternal.

You are making a good point. I'll do some studying and get back to that issue another day.