THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

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J

JesusIsAll

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#41
Please don't do that! That parable teaches how Jesus will suddenly come back. That is all that parable is about.
I offered that you could just throw out the ten virgins, like folks do most things they don't understand or that which doesn't agree with their private interpretations. Here I'm just trying to accommodate! Tell you what, here are a lot of verses to pick and choose from, then. "We aims ta' please!"

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Interesting of Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition, which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doeth already work; only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh WITH ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Revelation 19:11-14)

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Psalms 27:4-5 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers [wedding chambers], and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 

Word_Swordsman

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Sep 16, 2014
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#42
Revelation 21:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

The expression is describing how the NEW DWELLING PLACE is decorated in the same manor as a Bride deocorates herself; implying that is the LOCATION of the WEDDING, including the Wedding Chamber, not the Bride herself. THUS it is the inhabitants of the City who are the Bride. IT DOES NOT SAY as THE Bride. AND WHO are the inhabitants? O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints.

Isaiah 62:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a virgin, So shall your sons marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So shall your God rejoice over you.

NOTICE: The word "as" ahead of what I highlighted, is NOT IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE MANUSCRIPT, that is what the italics mean. Therefore, TRUE BELIEVERS who had the Faith of Abraham, are part of the Bride, so is the Church, and the Tribulation Saints.

Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Revelation 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
hOs Adv "AS" is the Greek. There was no "a" in that verse. The holy city is decked out like or as a Jewish bride would be astounding to the wedding party. She typically wore most if not all the gold and jewels her family had collected toward her wedding.

Have you noticed the other apostles didn't mention any of the doctrine of the Church being a Bride, or Lamb's wife, or anything like that? For a tradition as popular as it is I would expect several mentions. But we have John describing the city of mansions and streets of gold Jesus promised. His use of the traditional Jewish wedding was very popular among people that cherished the wedding event, so they could comprehend at least some of those parables.

Jesus described our future habitation as a place, not a being. John 14:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


There is no declaration from Jesus, either, of the Church or any other group being His bride or wife.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#43
hOs Adv "AS" is the Greek. There was no "a" in that verse. The holy city is decked out like or as a Jewish bride would be astounding to the wedding party. She typically wore most if not all the gold and jewels her family had collected toward her wedding.

Have you noticed the other apostles didn't mention any of the doctrine of the Church being a Bride, or Lamb's wife, or anything like that? For a tradition as popular as it is I would expect several mentions. But we have John describing the city of mansions and streets of gold Jesus promised. His use of the traditional Jewish wedding was very popular among people that cherished the wedding event, so they could comprehend at least some of those parables.

Jesus described our future habitation as a place, not a being. John 14:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


There is no declaration from Jesus, either, of the Church or any other group being His bride or wife
.

AND YOU WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THAT:

Revelation 22:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Anyone who hears should say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift.

A City DOES NOT say Come! HOWEVER, the Church does say COME, so should every Christian, and so did the Assembly of the LORD in the Old Testament times.

Hosea 6:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.

Revelation 18:23 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.

DOESN'T that just blow your whole theory out of the water?

I told you the Truth, and it is up to you, if you want to believe it or not.
Those who do not believe it, have to go through the Tribulation period.
Those who do believe it will be in Heaven in the New City Jerusalem for the Wedding of the LAMB.

Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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#44
Jesus will call out of the earth the Church, the [FONT=&quot]ἐκκλησία[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (ekklēsia[/FONT]) the congregation or assembly of the Redeemed which includes Christians and those of the past promised that eternal city, and those in the future who qualify through faith.

The concept of the bride, i.e. a wedding between Jesus and a woman figure, is not scriptural. The body of Christ will be joined with Him to live forever in that everlasting city, the New Jerusalem.

This one: Hebrews 13:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.


Let the Church be the Church, the body of Jesus the Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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#45
hOs Adv "AS" is the Greek. There was no "a" in that verse. The holy city is decked out like or as a Jewish bride would be astounding to the wedding party. She typically wore most if not all the gold and jewels her family had collected toward her wedding.

Have you noticed the other apostles didn't mention any of the doctrine of the Church being a Bride, or Lamb's wife, or anything like that? For a tradition as popular as it is I would expect several mentions. But we have John describing the city of mansions and streets of gold Jesus promised. His use of the traditional Jewish wedding was very popular among people that cherished the wedding event, so they could comprehend at least some of those parables.

Jesus described our future habitation as a place, not a being. John 14:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


There is no declaration from Jesus, either, of the Church or any other group being His bride or wife.

More info for you:

The New Jerusalem is the habitation, the eternal home that is prepared for the church. The Lord Jesus said: "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:2-3). You could not have a more lovely or more appropriate picture given. We have seen in Revelation 19:7-8 that ushering in the millennial period, actually before Christ returned to the earth, was the marriage of the Lamb, and the bride was the church.This passage is the fulfillment of what Paul wrote to the Ephesians: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Eph. 5:25-26).

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.
Further describing heaven's capital city, John notes that it was made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. The city is pictured as a bride because it contains the bride and takes on her character. The imagery is drawn from a Jewish wedding, which typically had three parts. First was the betrothal, which was like a modern engagement, but more legally binding. The betrothal of the Lord's bride took place in eternity past when God pledged to His Son a redeemed people. The next stage was the presentation, a time of celebration and feasting leading up to the actual wedding ceremony. The presentation of the bride took place following the Rapture of the church, when believers are taken to heaven. The third stage was the ceremony, which for the Lord's bride began at the marriage supper of the Lamb (19:7-9) and stretched through the millennial kingdom. The final stage was the consummation, which corresponds to the eternal state. John saw the bride adorned for her husband because it was time for the consummation. Adorned is from the verb [FONT=Gentium !important]kosmeō[/FONT] ("to order," or "to arrange"); the related noun [FONT=Gentium !important]kosmos[/FONT] (translated "adornment" in 1 Pet. 3:3) is the root of the English word "cosmetics." The bride has become appropriately ordered in all her beauty. By this point in Revelation, the bride concept expands to include not only the church (as it has since Acts 2), but also all the rest of the redeemed from all the ages who live forever in that eternal city (see the discussion of 19:9 in chapter 14 of this volume). This is the moment described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:28: "When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all."

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Revelation 12-22.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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#46
AND YOU WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THAT:

Revelation 22:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Anyone who hears should say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift..............

.............DOESN'T that just blow your whole theory out of the water?.........
Not at all. I realize this is a shocker to many, but the scriptures just don't back that up. I await your comments on what I've already posted. Why didn't Paul, Peter, and the others make a point about the Bride of Christ?

The reason is it is not a doctrine they supported. It wasn't in existence among them. What a big headline that would have made wherever they preached! But they didn't. It is too obscure, doesn't fit the gospel, is not agreeing with the disciples of Christ.

But, none of this is essential doctrine, so don't worry too much about it. I believe it distorts the new covenant a little, but there's far bigger debates going on within the Church, always have been, like baptisms and tongues. I don't know of a single denomination that declares the bride concept in their fundamentals of faith. All Christian churches I know of refer to the title "Church", believers being "brethren".
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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48
#47
Another look at it.

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This is all happening after the earth is made-over, the former done away with, no more sea, all new. Then God shows the holy city of God coming down from Heaven.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The glory of that city is best described by analogy to a beautiful bride prepared for her husband. Here's more of that name.
1 Kings 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
[HR][/HR] 2 Chronicles 20:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,
[HR][/HR] Revelation 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

[HR][/HR] Revelation 21:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Overcomers will receive that name of the city of God, not "bride". We who receive that promise are of one body, the body of Christ, all coming to that new Jerusalem as one in Christ, in effect marrying (by analogy) that glorious city, all of us of the bridegroom (by analogy). Today we are by analogy the friends of the bridegroom (by analogy).

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


All men on earth when that city comes down are people of God on earth already, receiving that tabernacle, God coming down to dwell with men on earth.

Then John begins to describe the city, also called the Lamb's wife (by analogy), with walls around her (by analogy), gates in those walls, streets of gold....

The Redeemed will live with Jesus in that wonderful city of God as though married to God, by analogy the wonderful husband Hosea married to the idolatrous wife Gomer. Hosea depicts God as though married to Israel, though they were idolaters. The concept of marriage with God is always symbolic of the relationship with the spiritually adulterous mankind, as desired by God by His grace.

"Wisdom" is also personified as feminine, and has a voice crying out to people in the streets.
Proverbs 1:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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#48
Jesus will call out of the earth the Church, the ἐκκλησία (ekklēsia) the congregation or assembly of the Redeemed which includes Christians and those of the past promised that eternal city, and those in the future who qualify through faith.

The concept of the bride, i.e. a wedding between Jesus and a woman figure, is not scriptural. The body of Christ will be joined with Him to live forever in that everlasting city, the New Jerusalem.

This one: Hebrews 13:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.


Let the Church be the Church, the body of Jesus the Christ.

Believe what you want, but you are accountable for the Truth:


Matthew 25:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.

I will believe what the HOLY SPIRIT has taught me through HIS WORD.

Revelation 19:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
[SUP]8 [/SUP] It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Hebrews 2:11 (HCSB)

[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers,
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#49
Not at all. I realize this is a shocker to many, but the scriptures just don't back that up. I await your comments on what I've already posted. Why didn't Paul, Peter, and the others make a point about the Bride of Christ?

The reason is it is not a doctrine they supported. It wasn't in existence among them. What a big headline that would have made wherever they preached! But they didn't. It is too obscure, doesn't fit the gospel, is not agreeing with the disciples of Christ.

But, none of this is essential doctrine, so don't worry too much about it. I believe it distorts the new covenant a little, but there's far bigger debates going on within the Church, always have been, like baptisms and tongues. I don't know of a single denomination that declares the bride concept in their fundamentals of faith. All Christian churches I know of refer to the title "Church", believers being "brethren".

WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU EVER GET THE IDEA THAT THE BIBLE CONTAINS EVERY CONVERSATION OF THE DISCIPLES?

God did not INSPIRE the others to write about the Bride.

LOOK WHAT ELSE JOHN WAS INSPIRED TO WRITE, that the Others did not.

John 21:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#50
. . . I don't know of a single denomination that declares the bride concept in their fundamentals of faith. . .
Here is a link to the Doctrinal Statement of Faith from the "Grace to You" radio program, which is from the Sermons taught by Dr. John MacArthur at Grace Community Church:

Grace to You

Doubting that you will really look it up, here is an excerpt:

[h=3]The Church[/h]We teach that all who place their faith in Jesus Christ are immediately placed by the Holy Spirit into one united spiritual Body, the church (1 Corinthians 12:12 13), the bride of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23 32;Revelation 19:7 8), of which Christ is the Head (Ephesians 1:22; 4:15; Colossians 1:18).
We teach that the formation of the church, the Body of Christ, began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1 21, 3847) and will be completed at the coming of Christ for His own at the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51 52; 1 Thessalonians 4:13 18).


What We Believe
Zola Levitt Ministries, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization guided by the standard of Romans 1:16 — “To the Jew first and also to the Gentile.”
We hold to a strictly literal and inerrant Bible interpretation, salvation through Christ alone, a soon pre-tribulation Rapture of all believers and the establishment of athousand-year kingdom on Earth.
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Oct 15, 2014
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#51
You know, this kinda bothers me, that the other wedding and the other lamb, is never mentioned, though Christ mentions him and his wedding , as well as the other apostles repeatedly ; as they warned about that.

There is a wedding, that comes before Christ's wedding, and you'd have to avoid being caught up in that one, if one expects to be welcome at Christ's wedding. Covering multi scriptures, yet omitting that, just leads to a dead end.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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#52
Another look at it.

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This is all happening after the earth is made-over, the former done away with, no more sea, all new. Then God shows the holy city of God coming down from Heaven.

. . .
No point responding to anything more in your post, when it appears you do not understand this verse.

The first heaven mentioned in that Verse is Earth's atmosphere.

Genesis 1:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

1 Kings 18:45 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] And it came to pass in the mean while, that the heaven was black with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain. And Ahab rode, and went to Jezreel.

AND the Second Heaven is the Universe, Stars, and Galaxies:

Genesis 22:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,

Deuteronomy 4:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

AND THEN WE COME TO THE THIRD HEAVEN, Where the Throne Room of GOD is.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (HCSB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know, God knows.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I know that this man—whether in the body or out of the body I don’t know, God knows—
[SUP]4 [/SUP] was caught up into paradise. He heard inexpressible words, which a man is not allowed to speak.

That Verse you quoted is AFTER the 1000 Year Reign of Jesus Christ on the Throne of David, AND after Judgement Day when everyone not found having their names in the book of life ARE CAST IN THE LAKE OF FIRE. PRIOR to that the New City Jerusalem is in the THIRD Heaven which is the Eternal Dwelling Place of GOD. Plus that City is the Dwelling Place of those who were resurrected to immortality, the true believers of all time (the Bride), who are that City's inhabitants throughout the ENTIRE 1000 Year Reign of Jesus Christ. SO when the City finally is lowered to Earth, EVIL and Sin are PERMANENTLY GONE, and we will have entered the Eternal State.

Like I said, believe whatever you want, but know, as for me and my house;
WE will CONTINUE to trust the Teachings of the Holy Spirit, and ignore your false theories.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#53
You know, this kinda bothers me, that the other wedding and the other lamb, is never mentioned, though Christ mentions him and his wedding , as well as the other apostles repeatedly ; as they warned about that.

There is a wedding, that comes before Christ's wedding, and you'd have to avoid being caught up in that one, if one expects to be welcome at Christ's wedding. Covering multi scriptures, yet omitting that, just leads to a dead end.

Book, Chapter, and Verse please?
 
Oct 15, 2014
149
1
0
#54
Book, Chapter, and Verse please?
You wont find this in just one book, nor chapter, nor verse. But all the Bible. Its a study of the entire Bible.
If you really want to cover some scriptures with me, then we can do that in a chat room, or some other setting. I can't refresh the page often to have a talk about something so important. Because it needs to be easier to talk.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#55
WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU EVER GET THE IDEA THAT THE BIBLE CONTAINS EVERY CONVERSATION OF THE DISCIPLES?

God did not INSPIRE the others to write about the Bride.

LOOK WHAT ELSE JOHN WAS INSPIRED TO WRITE, that the Others did not.

John 21:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.
I agree, certainly not all Jesus did or said was recorded prior to His ascension. I doubt all of that of the apostles was. But of what was recorded as by Jesus was discussed by the disciples of Jesus, plus the things the Holy Spirit was sent back to teach them all things.
John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


SO, the way I have learned it so far is in fact if Jesus taught them about this topic, all of them got that one side of Jesus' ascension or the other. Since they did in fact get all of Jesus' teaching by the Spirit inspiration, then I must question why hold on to a doctrine so weak that none but John mentioned at the end of Revelation a Lamb's wife described as a beautiful city. Jesus and the others discussed that city as our habitation in Heaven. It has been described well enough for artists to present what is already to wonderful, yet we know no eye has seen, nor ear heard of the sum of it.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#56
No point responding to anything more in your post, when it appears you do not understand this verse.

The first heaven mentioned in that Verse is Earth's atmosphere.

Genesis 1:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Let's take a closer look.
Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

That first earth is rolled up with the stars like a great scroll, so of course along with the first earth goes out the atmosphere and seas. A new earth with new atmosphere is set up in the place of the old. That's at least 1,000 years away, after Jesus puts His kingdom at the feet of Father God.

I'm curious about beliefs about Jesus' use of parables to teach His doctrine, which were many, since the spiritual is spiritually discerned. Parables appealed to natural understanding that can lead to partial spiritual understanding until the Spirit is within us to enable spiritual understanding without need of parables. Here's one Jesus where uses a wedding. Luke 12:33-40 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
[SUP]36 [/SUP] And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


I read it that a man has left to attend a wedding, leaving instructions to His servants. Stay prepared for Heaven, keep your lights on. Keep watch so as to immediately open the door for the lord when he returns from the wedding. Who is watching for him while he is gone? His household. The faithful servants will be invited to the feast. The returned lord will serve the servers. None knew when the man would return, like nobody knows when a burglar will come, but were blessed for being watchful 24/7.

The Son of man is coming. That lord returned from a wedding. You could use this parable to say Jesus is attending a wedding in Heaven while His brethren are on earth, because of that inclusion of Himself as Son of man, the implied lord of the parable. We could say that parable has a dual lesson, adding instructions for these days before the rapture, certainly before His second coming. Either way Jesus will come down inviting the Redeemed, including Abraham and many other old saints to a great feast. At that time the Redeemed will be introduced to the Lamb's wife, the holy New Jerusalem.

There's more scripture to back that up, but not supported by the apostles who were taught all things by the Holy Spirit. All the teachings of Christ must be kept in context, and not oppose any other doctrine in the Bible.

That parable above taught the urgency of being ready, Church, for His return. It is not at all about Jesus getting married to the Church or the Redeemed in general.

None of this I say is meant to argue or debate. I am just passing on what the Bible actually says in context. Studying that assures me the promise of knowledge, understanding and wisdom. It's my earnest desire to express those blessings along with the scriptures.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#57
Bottom line, our Lord Jesus is the Bridegroom a number of places in scripture. If people wish to negate this fact of scripture and avoid the word "bride" for the church, seems to me this is just some weirdness. The point is to always be prepared for the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church, His bride, which could be before this post is submitted.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#58
You wont find this in just one book, nor chapter, nor verse. But all the Bible. Its a study of the entire Bible.
If you really want to cover some scriptures with me, then we can do that in a chat room, or some other setting. I can't refresh the page often to have a talk about something so important. Because it needs to be easier to talk.

NO, I want you to back up your statements with the Scriptures that your beliefs are based, for ALL TO SEE. So that we can put them to the Test of the Scriptures to see if your interpretations are correct and Biblical. After all this is a Bible Discussion, therefore it is very appropriate and expected to see you support your beliefs with Scripture and historical evidence when appropriate.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#59
Let's take a closer look.
Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

That first earth is rolled up with the stars like a great scroll, so of course along with the first earth goes out the atmosphere and seas. A new earth with new atmosphere is set up in the place of the old. That's at least 1,000 years away, after Jesus puts His kingdom at the feet of Father God.

I'm curious about beliefs about Jesus' use of parables to teach His doctrine, which were many, since the spiritual is spiritually discerned. Parables appealed to natural understanding that can lead to partial spiritual understanding until the Spirit is within us to enable spiritual understanding without need of parables. Here's one Jesus where uses a wedding. Luke 12:33-40 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
[SUP]36 [/SUP] And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


I read it that a man has left to attend a wedding, leaving instructions to His servants. Stay prepared for Heaven, keep your lights on. Keep watch so as to immediately open the door for the lord when he returns from the wedding. Who is watching for him while he is gone? His household. The faithful servants will be invited to the feast. The returned lord will serve the servers. None knew when the man would return, like nobody knows when a burglar will come, but were blessed for being watchful 24/7.

The Son of man is coming. That lord returned from a wedding. You could use this parable to say Jesus is attending a wedding in Heaven while His brethren are on earth, because of that inclusion of Himself as Son of man, the implied lord of the parable. We could say that parable has a dual lesson, adding instructions for these days before the rapture, certainly before His second coming. Either way Jesus will come down inviting the Redeemed, including Abraham and many other old saints to a great feast. At that time the Redeemed will be introduced to the Lamb's wife, the holy New Jerusalem.

There's more scripture to back that up, but not supported by the apostles who were taught all things by the Holy Spirit. All the teachings of Christ must be kept in context, and not oppose any other doctrine in the Bible.

That parable above taught the urgency of being ready, Church, for His return. It is not at all about Jesus getting married to the Church or the Redeemed in general.

None of this I say is meant to argue or debate. I am just passing on what the Bible actually says in context. Studying that assures me the promise of knowledge, understanding and wisdom. It's my earnest desire to express those blessings along with the scriptures.
Balance your theories with these verses and then you will begin to arrive at the TRUTH:

Matthew 25:1-13 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

[SUP]9 [/SUP] "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

[SUP]10 [/SUP] "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'

[SUP]12 [/SUP] "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth,
I don't know you.'
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

John 14:3 (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord {Which means MASTER.}, continue to live in Him,

Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will tell them plainly,
'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


NO inner personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ as LORD and MASTER, means you will not be Called Out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in the New City Jerusalem, in HEAVEN. Some of those not taken, will be invited to the Wedding Supper, but that happens NOT in the New Dwelling Place, but rather back at the Bride's Old Dwelling Place Earth.

<span class="ind"><span class="poetry1"><span class="poetry1"><span class="ind"><span style="color:#000000;"><span class="JesusWords">[video=youtube;LhLxvNw51YI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhLxvNw51YI[/video]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#60
. . .

SO, the way I have learned it so far is in fact if Jesus taught them about this topic, all of them got that one side of Jesus' ascension or the other. Since they did in fact get all of Jesus' teaching by the Spirit inspiration, then I must question why hold on to a doctrine so weak that none but John mentioned at the end of Revelation a Lamb's wife described as a beautiful city. Jesus and the others discussed that city as our habitation in Heaven. It has been described well enough for artists to present what is already to wonderful, yet we know no eye has seen, nor ear heard of the sum of it.
I do not get your unrealistic expectations from the various N.T. writers, expecting them to validate each others writings. GOD INSPIRED EVERY VERSE THEREFORE THEY DID NOT HAVE TO VALIDATE EACH OTHERS WRITINGS. Sounds to me like you DOUBT if the Bible was ALL inspired by GOD,
 
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