Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[kennethcadwell]

So are you saying that believing Israel LOSES the promise once they believe in Christ?

No not at all, I mentioned that because people are mixing two different promises up as one promise.

The Jews were promised the holy land of Israel that will not be taken away. Christians rather Jew or gentile receive the promise of the kingdom of heaven.
People keep wanting to say that the land promise was taken from them and given to the gentiles.
The land still belongs to them, what they have lost is their birthright to the kingdom of heaven until they come to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Which the scriptures say they will do.

 

[SarahM777]

No not at all, I mentioned that because people are mixing two different promises up as one promise.

The Jews were promised the holy land of Israel that will not be taken away. Christians rather Jew or gentile receive the promise of the kingdom of heaven.
People keep wanting to say that the land promise was taken from them and given to the gentiles.
The land still belongs to them, what they have lost is their birthright to the kingdom of heaven until they come to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Which the scriptures say they will do.

You are saying that believing Christians that are of Israel DO LOSE THE LAND PROMISE. If God DOES NOT fulfill the land promise to believing Israel that means that God lied. The land promise is NOT taken from them. Scripture plainly says that the Gentiles are JOINT HEIRS. Believing Gentiles DO NOT REPLACE ISRAEL but are grafted in WITH Believing Israel.

And again it comes down to not understanding that the land promise is a TYPE AND SHADOW of the heavenly land. Which is what ALL believers will receive. Do you understand when Jesus said the meek the earth it is BELIEVERS that will inherit the entire earth.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Then you don't agree with this then correct?

Galatians 3

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Before the coming of this faith,[SUP][j][/SUP] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, [SUP]27 [/SUP]for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Strongs

4690. sperma

sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed​

Original Word: σπέρμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Short Definition:seed, offspring
Definition: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.

Paul under the inspriration of the Holy Spirit PLAINLY says that if one is in Christ we ARE ABRAHAM"S OFFSPRING and heirs to the promise.

Why wouldn't I believe that? Didn't I say that we would share in Israel's blessings in the Millennial Kingdom?

"This was the expectation or the hope of all OT believers (But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.") just as the church looks forward to and has hope in the resurrection and living with Christ and share in the blessings given to the Israelites in the millennium.

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those that bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
Genesis 28:14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
Galatians 3:6-9 So also Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you. So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith".

There is the natural lineage of Abraham which limited largely to the descendants of Jacob in the twelve tribes. To them God promises to be their God, they were given the law, and to them was given the land of Israel in the Old Testament. Then there is the spiritual seed of Abraham who are not natural Israelites. This is where the above promise "all the nations/peoples will be blessed through you [Abraham]". The only sense in which Gentiles can be Abraham's seed in the Galatians context is to be "in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28). To this group are believing Jews, believing Gentiles, i.e. the church, the body of Christ. Because we are the seed of Abraham spiritually by the new birth, it does not mean we are the physical seed of the patriarch. We are Abraham's seed in the spiritual sense only as heirs of the promise given "to all the peoples/nations of the earth."

 

[crossnote]

cont

Book VI, Chapter III, Section 4 (Entire)
​

Another Description Of The Terrible Famine That Was In The City​

4. Now there was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezub, which signifies the House of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude , and was with them besieged therein at this time. The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon; such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city. What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had also been carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose. This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she cast at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of the commiseration of her case, would take away her life ; and if she found any food, she perceived her labours were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her any way to find any more food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself: nor did she consult with anything but with her passion and the necessity she was in. She then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, "O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition ? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves! The famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us; yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets and a byeword to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews." As soon as she had said this, she slew her son; and then roasted him, and ate one half of him , and kept the other half by her concealed. Upon this the seditious come in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not shew them what food she had gotten ready. She replied, that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them; and withal uncovered what was left of her son. Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight; when she said to them "This is mine own son; and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous, and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also." After which, those men went out trembling, being never so much affrighted at anything as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother. Upon which, the whole city was full of horrid action immediately; and while everyone laid this miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard-of-action had been done by themselves. So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die ; and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not live long enough either to hear or see such miseries.

Josephus: The Wars Of The Jews; History of the Destruction Of Jerusalem

multiple posts detailing the horrendousness of that Christ rejecting generation of Jews which even Jesus said the kingdom would be taken from and given to another generation of Jews as happened in the wilderness.
But I did not see the answer to my question which you said you would provide, and that is when has the following passage been fulfilled?

Zechariah 14:2-4
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

...especially v.4

 

[SarahM777]

multiple posts detailing the horrendousness of that Christ rejecting generation of Jews which even Jesus said the kingdom would be taken from and given to another generation of Jews as happened in the wilderness.
But I did not see the answer to my question which you said you would provide, and that is when has the following passage been fulfilled?

Zechariah 14:2-4
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

...especially v.4

No point in going on. You again show that will not see that this already fulfills verse 2

 

[SarahM777]

No not at all, I mentioned that because people are mixing two different promises up as one promise.

The Jews were promised the holy land of Israel that will not be taken away. Christians rather Jew or gentile receive the promise of the kingdom of heaven.
People keep wanting to say that the land promise was taken from them and given to the gentiles.
The land still belongs to them, what they have lost is their birthright to the kingdom of heaven until they come to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Which the scriptures say they will do.

So to take it further to it's logical conclusion,since as you say that Christians from the nation of Israel forfeit the land promise as they only inherit the kingdom of heaven,that can only mean that UNBELIEVING Israel inherits the land promise. How is that possible? Please explain.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you understand what the land promise really is? Abraham,Issac and Jacob all got it. Do you understand the picture language that God uses about them entering into the land (Rest)? The writer of Hebrews uses it as a picture of us entering into His rest. It's a type and shadow and it's fulfillment is in CHRIST.

Do you understand what the word ETERNAL and ALL mean? Do they mean anything other than eternal and all.

The land was not just promised to those three men It was promised to ALL of their offspring (in the line through Jacob only) as an eternal inheritance.

We just ignore this fact??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

cont

Book VI, Chapter III, Section 4 (Entire)
​

Another Description Of The Terrible Famine That Was In The City​

4. Now there was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezub, which signifies the House of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude , and was with them besieged therein at this time. The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon; such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city. What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had also been carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose. This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she cast at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of the commiseration of her case, would take away her life ; and if she found any food, she perceived her labours were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her any way to find any more food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself: nor did she consult with anything but with her passion and the necessity she was in. She then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, "O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition ? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves! The famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us; yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets and a byeword to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews." As soon as she had said this, she slew her son; and then roasted him, and ate one half of him , and kept the other half by her concealed. Upon this the seditious come in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not shew them what food she had gotten ready. She replied, that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them; and withal uncovered what was left of her son. Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight; when she said to them "This is mine own son; and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous, and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also." After which, those men went out trembling, being never so much affrighted at anything as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother. Upon which, the whole city was full of horrid action immediately; and while everyone laid this miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard-of-action had been done by themselves. So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die ; and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not live long enough either to hear or see such miseries.

Josephus: The Wars Of The Jews; History of the Destruction Of Jerusalem

thanks for all of those posts.

Thanks for PROVING prophesy was fulfilled.

All of this was prophesied in the OT. Even the fact that the jews would be blinded, and the gentiles, who did not seek God, would find him, and God would be there God.

So tell me. What does that have to do with the promise god gave Abraham Issac and Jacob and ALL of their descendants, and an ETERNAL promise?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The original land covenant was given first to Abraham and his "offspring" which would include Isaac and Jacob [Israel] - so it was to the Israelites, i.e. the twelve tribes.

Do you understand that when God gives a promise he has to fulfill that promise or else His word is null and void? The covenant with Abraham was a unilateral covenant or a covenant without conditions. The land covenant was confirmed repeatedly by repetition and it was expanded on. This covenant was sealed by a divine ritual symbolizing the shedding of blood and passing between the parts of the sacrifice - confirmed by God. This covenant was passed on to Isaac and Jacob both of whom received the promises in their original form (Gen. 17:19; 28:12,13). The NT declares the Covenant immutable (Heb. 6:13-18). The millennium is the time of the fulfillment of Israel's national covenanted blessings.

Yes, Abraham's hope - he looked "for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Heb. 11:10). This was the expectation or the hope of all OT believers (But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.") just as the church looks forward to and has hope in the resurrection and living with Christ and share in the blessings given to the Israelites in the millennium.

they do not understand this. They want to make God a liar and a thief. One who does not keep his promise to anyone, They have failed to heed the warning of paul in romans 11.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then you don't agree with this then correct?

Galatians 3

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Before the coming of this faith,[SUP][j][/SUP] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, [SUP]27 [/SUP]for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Strongs

4690. sperma

sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed​

Original Word: σπέρμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Short Definition:seed, offspring
Definition: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.


Paul under the inspriration of the Holy Spirit PLAINLY says that if one is in Christ we ARE ABRAHAM"S OFFSPRING and heirs to the promise.

then why are we not in the land of promise, and why are we not living in peace. as we follow God. and he has made all our enemies his footstool, As he promised Israel. If we replaced Israel as heirs (as your claiming) all that was promised to them should be hours. why is it not?

Why did God forget this part of the promise. Better yet, When did God make this promise to us?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

multiple posts detailing the horrendousness of that Christ rejecting generation of Jews which even Jesus said the kingdom would be taken from and given to another generation of Jews as happened in the wilderness.
But I did not see the answer to my question which you said you would provide, and that is when has the following passage been fulfilled?

Zechariah 14:2-4
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

...especially v.4

they can;t answer that, or any of our direct questions, because their is no answer, so as usual, they go off on wild goose chases which has nothing to do with the topic, to try to shift blame someplace else. Hoping that maybe people will not see what they are doing (maybe even blind to it themselves, as they are trying to hide the truth from themselves)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No point in going on. You again show that will not see that this already fulfills verse 2

yep, so if is partially fulfilled literally, as said,

what about vs 3 and 4, should they not be literally fulfilled as vs 2 was?

 

[kennethcadwell]

then why are we not in the land of promise, and why are we not living in peace. as we follow God. and he has made all our enemies his footstool, As he promised Israel. If we replaced Israel as heirs (as your claiming) all that was promised to them should be hours. why is it not?

Why did God forget this part of the promise. Better yet, When did God make this promise to us?

Because they are still confusing the land promise with the promise of the kingdom of heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So to take it further to it's logical conclusion,since as you say that Christians from the nation of Israel forfeit the land promise as they only inherit the kingdom of heaven,that can only mean that UNBELIEVING Israel inherits the land promise. How is that possible? Please explain.

The land was given to Israel, It is theirs

Mosaic law places conditions on it though (lev 26) however, look at the mercy of God. how many generations of sin did God allow unbelieving Israel to remain in the land before he took them out. First by syria, then by babylon. Then after the land had her sabbath, returned unbelieving Israel to the land (for Christ's sake) until 70 AD.

so not sure what your question is refering too considering the history.

Even so. God said he will not return this time until they REPENT. WHich he prophesies they WILL. It is sad that people would think if a nation who sinned greatly against God (as our forfathers did, and we ourselves did) would repent, God would not restore them to what he promised their fathers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because they are still confusing the land promise with the promise of the kingdom of heaven.

I know. we have the roman church to thank for that, their hate of Israel caused it. and we still suffer from it.

 

[crossnote]

No point in going on. You again show that will not see that this already fulfills verse 2

I saw v2 could have that type of non literal interpretation, but my hope was for v4...that is the physical literal return of Christ to a literal Mt. of Olives causing a literal cleavage...that was my original point...hasn't happened yet.

 

[crossnote]

No point in going on. You again show that will not see that this already fulfills verse 2

Oh and btw, an account by a secular turncoat Jewish historian fulfills nothing.

 

[psychomom]

then why are we not in the land of promise, and why are we not living in peace. as we follow God. and he has made all our enemies his footstool, As he promised Israel. If we replaced Israel as heirs (as your claiming) all that was promised to them should be hours. why is it not?

Why did God forget this part of the promise. Better yet, When did God make this promise to us?

i'm a bit duller of mind than usual tonight, so forgive me if i'm waaayy off base,
but wasn't that promise made to Jesus?

love you, EG. ♥

 

[Bride]

multiple posts detailing the horrendousness of that Christ rejecting generation of Jews which even Jesus said the kingdom would be taken from and given to another generation of Jews as happened in the wilderness.
But I did not see the answer to my question which you said you would provide, and that is when has the following passage been fulfilled?

Zechariah 14:2-4
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

...especially v.4

And here is where the answer of GOD comes back in to you a third time with HIS answer of the fulfillment of Zechariah, "especially verse 4"...

(Luk 1:54)
He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

(Luk 1:55)
As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.


(Joh 16:33)
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
(1Jn 5:4)
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


(Rev 19:11)
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(Rev 19:12)
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
(Rev 19:13)
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(Rev 19:14)
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(Rev 19:15)
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(Rev 19:16)
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

(Mat 21:1)
And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,


(Mar 11:1)
And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,


(Act 1:9)
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.


(Act 1:12)
Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.





(Luk 21:27)
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


(Act 1:8)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


(Mat 25:31)
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:





(Eph 2:6)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


(1Th 3:13)
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.





(Jud 1:14)
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,


(1Co 14:33)
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

But ye are come unto mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

​

 

[Kerry]

Look it, God promised Israel that they would be a kingdom forever. Satan is trying to make that word of God to be a lie, because if he can destroy Israel then he wins. Thats why Israel is the news everyday and why islam wants to destroy it.