Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[Brainfreeze]

This idea that God is ruling only in Heaven and not entirely on Earth, because corruption and evil is present, does not agree with the Bible. Imperfect state of things on Earth does not diminish God's kingship on Earth:

Job 34:12-13 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment. Who hath given him a charge over the EARTH? or who hath disposed THE WHOLE WORLD?

Further in the same passage:
Job 34:18-20 Is it fit to say to a king, Thou art wicked? and to princes, Ye are ungodly? How much less to him that accepteth not the persons of princes, nor regardeth the rich more than the poor? for they all are the work of his hands. For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings.

(Some translations render Job 34:18 as "he says to kings 'you are wicked!' and calls princes 'worthless man!'". But no matter how translated, God is above kings and princes of the Earth. King of kings.)

31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.


Satan has rule over the flesh, and worldly things. Jesus is the prince of peace, it is all made for God and will amount to glorifying Him. Only difference is some will get eternity with Gods love, joy, and bliss. The other will be damned.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Christ is ruling on earth as well but invisibly and He is not ruling with a rod of iron but is letting the cup of evil fill to the brim.

Psalms 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[FaithfulLadybug]

Imho I believe we, or at least I should pray for peace in Israel. We know that peace won't come to Israel until the Jews accept Jesus as Messiah. In their own words, Israel won't have peace until Messiah comes, and since we know who Messiah is, it's clear. I also believe that Jews, en mass, will only do that when they see Him... realize and believe that Jesus is Messiah.

As far as sin. Judaism teaches that all Jews will go to Gehenna first for their sins - any and all sins, even the most minor ones (which Catholics refer to as Purgatory) - where their sins are dealt with/burned off. Then they wait there.. for Messiah to release them from Gehenna. (There's also the belief of reincarnation in Judaism... but that's another subject, I'd say). Actually, I've never, personally, heard any Orthadox or Chassidic Jewish Rabbi teach that anyone goes to Heaven. They teach that Heaven is not accessible to them because they no longer have the Temple, therefore blood sacrifice, therefore no access to Heaven. Not seeing that yes they do, if they would only open their hearts to Jesus.

No, We are commanded to pray for salvation in Israel.

Israel will not have peace until they repent, This is what the OT prophets say, And revelation confirms. As long as Israel is in sin, there will be no peace in Israel.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Some more on Jesus and the rod:
Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[crossnote]

Psalms 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Psa_110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

(Isa 11:4) But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.


Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


Rev_12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[vic1980]

Isaiah 54:16 "Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals And brings out a weapon for its work; And I have created the destroyer to ruin.

Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

And the people said Amen

This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

[crossnote]

Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People?

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:35-37)


That's why.

 

[SoulWeaver]

There is no disagreement on this at all.
The disagreement is about who this people is.
The verse nowhere says Jews. It says "seed of Israel". This seed was proven over and over again with Scriptures to be the Jewish patriarchs, saints and prophets, Jesus and those who follow Him, be they Jew or Gentile (joint heirs).
I have a feeling that we are spinning around.

 

[SarahM777]

Christ is ruling on earth as well but invisibly and He is not ruling with a rod of iron but is letting the cup of evil fill to the brim.

Go learn what the rod of iron is to a people that understood a shepherds term. The rod iron is a SHEPHERDS CLUB. It is a DEFENSIVE weapon to guard the flock. It was the weapon the shepherd uses against wild animals. It is the picture so plainly paints in Psalm 23.

 

[SarahM777]

So what you are saying is that He is ruling all things from heaven? He is just king in heaven - not over the earth? So we can still have evil things happening in the world - unrighteousness abounding - because he is just king in heaven? You do not believe that He will be ruling from David's throne - literally? He is doing it spiritually? IOW, you don't believe that when He returns He will set up His kingdom ON EARTH? AN ACTUAL REAL KINGDOM? The verse below is just meant spiritually not literally?

He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever . . ." Isaiah 9:7

Yes He is. But one must UNDERSTAND the nature of the Kingdom and the King. The nature of the heavenly King is as a SHEPHERD KING. Jesus is King over His sheep,who as long as they are in this world are surrounded by His enemies.

Where in that verse does it say that it will be in the entire world? That verse LIMITS it to HIS KINGDOM. It is within Christ's kingdom that He will establish and uphold the kingdom with justice and righteousness. Unbelievers are not part of the kingdom,so how can one expect those outside of the kingdom to do other then what they do?

 

[SarahM777]

Hebrews 2:8b does say: BUT NOW WE SEE NOT YET ALL THINGS PUT UNDER HIM.

Christ will not set up his kingdom until he returns on earth. I mean take a look around the world. This place is like living in a zoo. Evil is waxing worse and worse - and he is ruling NOW? People are suffering on a scale that we can't even comprehend. Just compare the world today with what the word of God says about the time when Jesus rules the earth and see if the two line up - and he is ruling NOW?

Jesus is now both Lord and Christ . . . (Acts 2:36) In Christ's Kingdom - He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever . . ." Isaiah 9:7

You do also understand that Hebrews 2:8 CONFIRMS that Jesus IS STILL REIGNING NOW. 1 Corinthians 15 plainly says He will reign UNTIL all things are put under His feet. The passage DOES NOT say that He will reign AFTER all things are put under His feet.

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The Lord is in control of all things .... always has been and will be forever

But His millennial and next eternal kingdom have not come yet

Satan is still the "god" of this present lost world of humans

And Israel is still in the game .... no doubt

 

[crossnote]

Go learn what the rod of iron is to a people that understood a shepherds term. The rod iron is a SHEPHERDS CLUB. It is a DEFENSIVE weapon to guard the flock. It was the weapon the shepherd uses against wild animals. It is the picture so plainly paints in Psalm 23.

source? And in context.

 

[crossnote]

Yes He is. But one must UNDERSTAND the nature of the Kingdom and the King. The nature of the heavenly King is as a SHEPHERD KING. Jesus is King over His sheep,who as long as they are in this world are surrounded by His enemies.

Where in that verse does it say that it will be in the entire world? That verse LIMITS it to HIS KINGDOM. It is within Christ's kingdom that He will establish and uphold the kingdom with justice and righteousness. Unbelievers are not part of the kingdom,so how can one expect those outside of the kingdom to do other then what they do?

This verse reveals his rule to all nations...

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You do also understand that Hebrews 2:8 CONFIRMS that Jesus IS STILL REIGNING NOW. 1 Corinthians 15 plainly says He will reign UNTIL all things are put under His feet. The passage DOES NOT say that He will reign AFTER all things are put under His feet.

If as you say Jesus is reigning now and the kingdom of God is here now - why in the Lord's prayer are we to pray - "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? His will is definitely not being done on earth . . .

When he rules with a "rod of iron", he will not allow things to get out of line and do the kinds of hurtful things countless people today are doing. There would be peace on earth, with no war, no sickness, no injustice, no danger from the elements or from wild animals - "In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. . . . The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He will judge the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war any more". (Isaiah 2:2,3b,4; Isaiah 11:1-9)

God chose Israel as the people from whose bloodline the Redeemer would come; at his first coming to the earth He was rejected as their king, he suffered and died; [the suffering servant] but he will come again - this time as the conquering king, ruling with a "rod of iron" [not as a simple shepherd but as one with the mark of authority (one of the definitions for rod - truncheon, scepter - mark of authority)] and rule for 1000 years after the 1000 years "all things will be in subjection under him". Right now Jesus is "Lord", highly exalted by God (Phil. 2:8-11). He is the "head of the body" of Christ, the Church. In a sense, he is the "king" of our heart as we humble ourselves and allow him as "Lord" to lead and guide us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not according to him he doesn't.

He specifically said that what him and e-g are preaching is NOT the Gospel and that Jesus is NOT their King. Ask them. Because I have the copy and paste ready when they try to squirm out of this. They are not who you think they are my friend.

there you go bearing false witness again, How can your live with yourself with these lies.

The gospel is I am a sinner, without hope, Can do NOTHING to save myself. Christ came and died for me, so I could be set free, He paid my redemption, I must trust him. so he can give me eternal life based on his sons death, (for by Grace I have been saved, not of works, lest I should boast. But through Faith)

Now what does this have to do with God promising a nation a plot of land in the middle east. Could you please enlighten us?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This idea that God is ruling only in Heaven and not entirely on Earth, because corruption and evil is present, does not agree with the Bible. Imperfect state of things on Earth does not diminish God's kingship on Earth:

Job 34:12-13 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment. Who hath given him a charge over the EARTH? or who hath disposed THE WHOLE WORLD?

Further in the same passage:
Job 34:18-20 Is it fit to say to a king, Thou art wicked? and to princes, Ye are ungodly? How much less to him that accepteth not the persons of princes, nor regardeth the rich more than the poor? for they all are the work of his hands. For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings.

(Some translations render Job 34:18 as "he says to kings 'you are wicked!' and calls princes 'worthless man!'". But no matter how translated, God is above kings and princes of the Earth. King of kings.)

here is the problem.

The prophesy of Jesus ruling has these characteristics.

1. He will rule with a rod of Iron (aint happening yet)
2. All nations will come to jerusalem once a year to honor him (has not happened yet)
3. He will rule on Davids throne (has not happened yet)
4. He will bring about world peace (has not happened yet)
5. No one will need to teach their neighbor, because everyone knows (has not happened yet)


I can go on and on and on. Again, literal fulfilment has not happened, Yes he rules, as nothing happens without his permission. But as scripture says, he is slack concerning his promise, wishing that non should perish. He is not ruling with an iron rod right now, he is ruling with a permissive spirit. allowing things to go so people will seek him. Once he is hear, everyone will KNOW HIM,,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Gospel is the fulfillment of God's Promise's to Israel including the Land, as proven repeatedly is mentioned over and over in the N.T.

YOU say that what YOU and your minions are preaching is NOT the Gospel and demand that I not confuse them.

I asked for clarification of what you said and this is how it goes and how it stands.

Here it is. Your words again.



post #605...

"it is not a gospel thing, it is a national thing."

And all THESE people "liked" his comments;

- AzureAfire
- eternally-gratefull
- peacefulbeliever
- notuptome
- JesusIsAll
- Jason0047
- crossnote
- Dcontroversal
- kaylagrl
- Atwood
- john832

"it is not a gospel thing"

and

"Jesus is not ruling"

Quoted. Admitted. By eternally-grateful and those who agree with him.




NOW DO YOU REMEMBER?

YOU PREACH A NON-GOSPEL BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. THEN CALL ME A LIAR.

Gal: 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.


NOW, when you want to talk about the Gospel, and put away your Jewish fables and nasty behavior, maybe we can get somewhere?

But NOT if you want to push your NON-Gospel. Because I will continue warning the children here of that poisoness venom you spit SIR

No.

The gospel is salvation is paid for by the blood of Christ.

You my friend teach a false gospel. for the gospel has nothing to do with any land here on earth, it has everything to do with mans plight against God and him restoring mankind to a relationship with him, jew and gentile.

I think Cross is right, maybe it is time to place someone on the I list.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Okay I see where you're coming from gratefull.
Would you please provide the verse for 2)?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Psa_110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

(Isa 11:4) But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.


Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


Rev_12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Nations as of yet are ruled this way.

Yes Christ was struck by the rod of God. for our sins, But nations have not yet been ruled this way, Different context.