Legalize pot in every state!

[Jimbone]

The only caveat I would have is where you said 'God gave us all plants to enjoy'. That was said before the Fall and since then he put a curse on the ground and we do have various poisonous plants.
I dated Mary Jane for 7 years and it truly poisoned my thinking at that time, especially with paranoia and a scattered brain where I couldn't hold a conversation for over 30 secs in my everyday life.

Well if it does that to you then I would agree that you shouldn't do it, especially if that's what the Spirit lead you to do. The Spirit has lead me to change quite a few things concerning this matter, but it does not affect me the way you just described it does you. As a matter of fact I am pretty sure you couldn't even tell if I was high or not (not that that's my whole case, or even my only justification). That's kind of what I meant when I was talking about how it effected me at the point of my regeneration. It doesn't effect me like that, if it did I would more than likely feel different about it. I think that if you feel the Spirit telling you it's wrong for you then it is, but that's just not the way I have been lead to feel about it. Again I'm not saying my view won't change at some point, it already has changed a lot in the last 13 months, but right now I don't feel I am rebelling against God, or even not heeding His direction. And once again I am not saying this can be applied to anyone else, but as far as my own personal view on this subject, I feel for me it's not a sinful act. That being said if it did still affect me the same way it did in high school, I may not feel the same way.

 

[crossnote]

Well if it does that to you then I would agree that you shouldn't do it, especially if that's what the Spirit lead you to do. The Spirit has lead me to change quite a few things concerning this matter, but it does not affect me the way you just described it does you. As a matter of fact I am pretty sure you couldn't even tell if I was high or not (not that that's my whole case, or even my only justification). That's kind of what I meant when I was talking about how it effected me at the point of my regeneration. It doesn't effect me like that, if it did I would more than likely feel different about it. I think that if you feel the Spirit telling you it's wrong for you then it is, but that's just not the way I have been lead to feel about it. Again I'm not saying my view won't change at some point, it already has changed a lot in the last 13 months, but right now I don't feel I am rebelling against God, or even not heeding His direction. And once again I am not saying this can be applied to anyone else, but as far as my own personal view on this subject, I feel for me it's not a sinful act. That being said if it did still affect me the same way it did in high school, I may not feel the same way.

my point was not the anecdotal part, I know people react differently. It was the first part where God gave us all plants to enjoy but since the Fall that has changed.

 

[Jimbone]

my point was not the anecdotal part, I know people react differently. It was the first part where God gave us all plants to enjoy but since the Fall that has changed.

LOL, man the original point of my response had to do with that very part of your comment and I completely lost track it while typing (lol, believe it or not I'm not high now), but that actually makes a lot of sense and I never thought of that verse in that way before. Something new to look into and think about. Thanks brother.

 

[blue_ladybug]

The use of marijuana for medicinal use has been legalized in Vermont, but you need to have some sort of medical card to get it.

 

[Bushido8000]

BASIC- Democrats- govt. does the deciding. Republicans- individuals do.

I would say those were the old parties lol. They switched ideals and it will soon be revealed with the new GOP controlled government.

IMO Democrats - government does the deciding. Republicans - government does the deciding under the guise of a party for Christians and individuals with common sense.

The parties and their agendas have united into a Marxist ideal since the Clinton administration. Mark my words, no president is going to "undo" the "mistakes" of the last president. Bush passed the Patriot Act. Obama Simply added to it instead of undoing the "damage". The next Republican president is simply going to add to Obama Care instead of undoing it. Unfortunately it is no longer a government of the people but instead a government of the elite vs. the people.

my point was not the anecdotal part, I know people react differently. It was the first part where God gave us all plants to enjoy but since the Fall that has changed.

How has it changed? The gov made it illegal to possess in the 1940s. It wasn't illegal for almost 2000 years AD.

 

[SoulWeaver]

We will never know while we are here why God put this plant here. But everything can be used for good and bad. What was it that Paul said? in 1st Corinthians 6:12.

That, and some things just came with the fall of man, like thorns, poisonous herbs (surely didnt exist in Heaven) and hallucinogenous stuff... all by nature demonic.

 

[Brainfreeze]

All I'm going to say on the subject, not to argue or cause stir, it's against the law still in most states.. That should say something .. If you get caught you put yourselves and your families in jepordy. It means nothing that God created it, He created mushrooms to, does that mean it's ok to lose your mind in hallucinations ? No, it's not ok to be outside of ourselves high on nothing, it ruins goals, drive, ambition, and so forth. God said we should be as children, would anyone give this to a child? I know I couldn't do that. There's been a few good post here, and a few is understandable especially with Mr. Oldernotwiser. He feels instead of the pain killers, he smokes the ganja for his serious condition. It's still his choice though, we are to have a clear mind, fought with this idea myself, God speaks loud and clear through things if one can understand Him. I can admit I was addicted before being saved, I have at least 5 possession charges on my rap sheet, just smoking, on probation, parole, and facing prison with a suspended sentence over my head... Still smoking, Did not care one bit, matter a fact, the friends you attract from smoking aren't to great either. Birds of a feather puff together.

As for being legal, go check out Amsterdam, see if that doesn't change your minds or even Uruguay " legalizing testing grounds". Heard of a guy that went to Peru to try drugs also, never to return. Drugs in general distort the mind, emotions, personality, and all the gifts from God. MJ is a gateway, if we smoke it, for sure we will be approached with other drugs, and teens love trying stuff. It's not ok..Say no to drugs, period.

 

[skipp]

I think that it should only be used for serious medical issues, like the gentleman who has cancer. In that case it's in the same category as taking any other medicine and I don't see anything wrong with it. I definitely do not think that it should be taken recreationally "for fun". I live in an (ironically conservative) area that has a raging drug epidemic. 60% of the children in the area that I live in are drug babies (that is a real statistic). Child abuse and neglect are sadly very common and has been tied to our drug epidemic. Of course the biggest harm tends to be more serious drugs like meth and heroin but pot is also very widespread and really does serve as a gateway drug to the harder stuff. The acceptance of pot causes people to be far more accepting of the more serious drugs. And we do get child neglect cases tied up with parents who are heavy pot smokers and who are so wrapped up in smoking pot that they don't take proper care of their children. Living in an area that has been ruined by drugs tends to give you a clearer outlook on the subject.

 

[Roamer]

I have no problems with pot being made legal. And I don't touch the stuff. But it seems many are quick to go 'weed = drug = bad = evil = ban'. Without applying a full cost/benefit analysis to the issue.

A few points helped me come down on the side of legalisation. There are probably more.

1. Side effects of coffee are arguably worse than pot. It's legal.
2. Side effects of alcohol and smoking are definitely worse than pot. Social costs are enormous. They are both legal.
3. Crime syndicates profit immensely from the fact that pot is still illegal in most places. Proceeds go towards fuelling more crime.
4. Money spent on policing and prosecution of minor pot use - astronomical. Drains resources from policing serious crimes and pretty much everything else is better to spend on. Also, heavy penalties for minor offences means more hardened criminals in the long run. Avoidable with legalisation.
5. Legalisation means taxes, means revenue for governments. Means more spending on health, education, etc.

Places that have legalised pot have so far come up trumps, no doomsday predictions eventuated.

If we're going to be moral about this issue, we need to do it properly and consider the costs and benefits to society as a whole.

 

[Brainfreeze]

I have no problems with pot being made legal. And I don't touch the stuff. But it seems many are quick to go 'weed = drug = bad = evil = ban'. Without applying a full cost/benefit analysis to the issue.

A few points helped me come down on the side of legalisation. There are probably more.

1. Side effects of coffee are arguably worse than pot. It's legal.
2. Side effects of alcohol and smoking are definitely worse than pot. Social costs are enormous. They are both legal.
3. Crime syndicates profit immensely from the fact that pot is still illegal in most places. Proceeds go towards fuelling more crime.
4. Money spent on policing and prosecution of minor pot use - astronomical. Drains resources from policing serious crimes and pretty much everything else is better to spend on. Also, heavy penalties for minor offences means more hardened criminals in the long run. Avoidable with legalisation.
5. Legalisation means taxes, means revenue for governments. Means more spending on health, education, etc.

Places that have legalised pot have so far come up trumps, no doomsday predictions eventuated.

If we're going to be moral about this issue, we need to do it properly and consider the costs and benefits to society as a whole.

Coffee does not get you high and there's also been test that show the contrary " coffee good for you ", it doesn't cloud your judgment either. Cigarettes are bad but nicotine is not a drug, again no ones stoned out of their mind on nicotine. It does not change your thought process. Cigarettes do not change the mind as being " burnt " on dope will. Alcohol yes, why there's stiff penalties for such if found drunk while driving. As for money, ...it's sad that it's even a topic, people want to come up off other peoples problems because the country as a whole has been making terrible decisions. I guess we will know how terrible when interest rates go back up. As abortion, gay marriage, and now dope dealers increase things will get worse for us. You say trumps, it just happened, give it time and watch society decline into a third world. How much sense does that make, high as a kite but better education??!!


As for the policing issue, they already have first time offender programs. I do think throwing hard time around for minor crimes is apart of big business " prison " and that could be tuned up a little. The main point is, the nation will be in a constant decline as long as this behavior is allowed. George soros is backing this craziness, who also backs obama, I think the nation spoke loud and clear on what they think of obama's policies. If people like the dope so much, move to Jamaica. The last time I checked this is America, my grandparents didn't fight for this country that it could be riddled with dope smokers and dysfunctional attitudes. Now if we took all these crazy taxes like property, income, and a few others, we could be more prosperous. Give it back to the individual (us) and not the collective (governance). Weed will not fix anything, it will only harm.

 

[Jimbone]

Those all seem like very generalized sweeping statement's as well. I just don't think the issue is quite that black and white. Again I have my own angle and I'm not trying to say my view should be accepted by anyone else, but if YOU feel it's a sin then it is for YOU, I have the same Spirit in me and for ME it's not a sin in it's self. To be honest I don't even feel it's a big enough deal to debate to protect my view, but I feel the same way about both sides of this topic. If YOU think it's wrong, I agree you shouldn't do it. I feel like it in no way interferes with my focus on God, and just don't feel it's bad in my heart. That being said, I do feel the Spirit has been leading me to consume less and less. I don't even take it out of my house anymore and that in it's self is only by His power.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Those all seem like very generalized sweeping statement's as well. I just don't think the issue is quite that black and white. Again I have my own angle and I'm not trying to say my view should be accepted by anyone else, but if YOU feel it's a sin then it is for YOU, I have the same Spirit in me and for ME it's not a sin in it's self. To be honest I don't even feel it's a big enough deal to debate to protect my view, but I feel the same way about both sides of this topic. If YOU think it's wrong, I agree you shouldn't do it. I feel like it in no way interferes with my focus on God, and just don't feel it's bad in my heart. That being said, I do feel the Spirit has been leading me to consume less and less. I don't even take it out of my house anymore and that in it's self is only by His power.

Jim, I love you bro, but I'm hearing a lot of you, you, you, and me, me, me. What about Jesus? Do you think Jesus would come sit and smoke a blunt with us? I don't think so, as the Bible says, we should be ourselves and submit to what God wants, not what we want. We should live to die to what we want, and live to be servants for others, and help others get to where we are with Christ.

 

[Jimbone]

Jim, I love you bro, but I'm hearing a lot of you, you, you, and me, me, me. What about Jesus? Do you think Jesus would come sit and smoke a blunt with us? I don't think so, as the Bible says, we should be ourselves and submit to what God wants, not what we want. We should live to die to what we want, and live to be servants for others, and help others get to where we are with Christ.

True, and I agree.

 

[Brainfreeze]

True, and I agree.

Then we can agree that weed is bad for ones health, right ? We can agree that Jesus wouldn't want us to do it, right ?We can agree that we wouldn't share a blunt with our children, right Jim ?

 

[Jimbone]

Then we can agree that weed is bad for ones health, right ? We can agree that Jesus wouldn't want us to do it, right ?We can agree that we wouldn't share a blunt with our children, right Jim ?

Nope we can agree to let Christ alone lead us. I do and that's why this whole time I've made sure to make clear I am not making a sweeping case for all Christians, and also why I said things like "I'm not saying He will never lead me to stop", or try to dictate anyone else's PERSONAL relationship with Christ. Are you telling me I don't? It's not my place I can only testify to what He leads me to do and point people to Him. It's between them after that, so please stop trying to convince me YOU are right and I'm wrong. I have the same Christ in me you do, and I'm not telling anyone to start.

 

[Jimbone]

Nope we can agree to let Christ alone lead us. I do and that's why this whole time I've made sure to make clear I am not making a sweeping case for all Christians, and also why I said things like "I'm not saying He will never lead me to stop", or try to dictate anyone else's PERSONAL relationship with Christ. Are you telling me I don't? It's not my place I can only testify to what He leads me to do and point people to Him. It's between them after that, so please stop trying to convince me YOU are right and I'm wrong. I have the same Christ in me you do, and I'm not telling anyone to start.

I also want to add this because cancer seemed to make a difference to you but, to be honest one of the biggest reasons I smoke now is because it lessens the phantom pain in my flail arm, but I hate using that as a cover because I've always smoked and may still even if it didn't help with the pain.

 

[Brainfreeze]

I also want to add this because cancer seemed to make a difference to you but, to be honest one of the biggest reasons I smoke now is because it lessens the phantom pain in my flail arm, but I hate using that as a cover because I've always smoked and may still even if it didn't help with the pain.

Jim, your not dying. This is for dire medical treatment. I have pain, seldom times I can't even bend down have to use my legs, this is the first I've mentioned it. It's bearable, I'm not going to any doctors, even for pain. Just because a doctor or the government says it's ok, doesn't mean it is. We are called to be strong and endure, not to be numb to pain. A few times this back pain is pretty rough, after prayer, Jesus takes this pain and I feel nothing. I'm happy I can endure with a clear mind and conscious as Jesus would want us that way. When Jesus was being beat and crucified do you think anyone ran to His aid and gave Him pain killers ? No, He bared all the pain.

 

[Jimbone]

Jim, your not dying. This is for dire medical treatment. I have pain, seldom times I can't even bend down have to use my legs, this is the first I've mentioned it. It's bearable, I'm not going to any doctors, even for pain. Just because a doctor or the government says it's ok, doesn't mean it is. We are called to be strong and endure, not to be numb to pain. A few times this back pain is pretty rough, after prayer, Jesus takes this pain and I feel nothing. I'm happy I can endure with a clear mind and conscious as Jesus would want us that way. When Jesus was being beat and crucified do you think anyone ran to His aid and gave Him pain killers ? No, He bared all the pain.

What ever man, you win the argument, I'm wrong your right. You sure do like to teach, and have very high opinions of your personal views and are very eager to just apply them to all. I wish you could feel this pain I'm talking about, kind of like the bone being crushed while burning alive, but you obviously know exactly what I'm talking about since you think I should just "get through it", not knowing that every time I'm doubled over in pain squeezing it that I am pray to Jesus "Thank you for this arm for it lead me to you", did you. I think you need to slow your role a little homie, you can't save the world Jesus already did, and YOU are not an authority over me to tell me what's right and wrong the Spirit is. I'm saved already and I can read, please stop trying to just be "right" in this and drop your pride. I'm not your responsibility. I love you brother but you are a know-it-all. and come off very self authoritative sometimes, actually a lot.

 

[psalm6819]

I think that God's issue with drugs/alcohol whether for medicinal or recreational use is the fact that we turn to a source other than Him for our relief. I'm not saying that one should not take prescribed medication but it's easy to find doctors that will prescribe whatever you want. In Michigan you can get a card and you go to a store and buy weed or plants to grow yourself. What is important is to realize that we are to be dependent on the Lord not a bottle of pills.

 

[Roamer]

Coffee does not get you high and there's also been test that show the contrary " coffee good for you ", it doesn't cloud your judgment either. Cigarettes are bad but nicotine is not a drug, again no ones stoned out of their mind on nicotine. It does not change your thought process. Cigarettes do not change the mind as being " burnt " on dope will. Alcohol yes, why there's stiff penalties for such if found drunk while driving. As for money, ...it's sad that it's even a topic, people want to come up off other peoples problems because the country as a whole has been making terrible decisions. I guess we will know how terrible when interest rates go back up. As abortion, gay marriage, and now dope dealers increase things will get worse for us. You say trumps, it just happened, give it time and watch society decline into a third world. How much sense does that make, high as a kite but better education??!!


As for the policing issue, they already have first time offender programs. I do think throwing hard time around for minor crimes is apart of big business " prison " and that could be tuned up a little. The main point is, the nation will be in a constant decline as long as this behavior is allowed. George soros is backing this craziness, who also backs obama, I think the nation spoke loud and clear on what they think of obama's policies. If people like the dope so much, move to Jamaica. The last time I checked this is America, my grandparents didn't fight for this country that it could be riddled with dope smokers and dysfunctional attitudes. Now if we took all these crazy taxes like property, income, and a few others, we could be more prosperous. Give it back to the individual (us) and not the collective (governance). Weed will not fix anything, it will only harm.

Brainfreeze, I appreciate your input. I also understand your concern that by legalising marijuana, everyone's going to turn into a stoned pothead.

But we must be very careful about making assertions with no logical or evidence-based backing.

1) Cigarettes cause serious brain damage. Nicotine, by all measures, is a stimulant drug (same as caffeine, btw). I suggest your aversion to pot is more culturally imposed than rooted in any intrinsic 'badness' of it. 200-300 years ago, most people saw coffee as an "evil drug" to be severely banned. Look where we are today.

2) Yes, we have punishments for drink driving. However, we do not punish people for having a drink or two at a party. Needless to say, Jesus drank wine at a wedding. We don't punish people for getting drunk and falling asleep in their own homes. And we don't punish people for carrying bottles of alcohol around. There are degrees of differentiation. Why then should we punish people who smoke pot recreationally, are found to have pot on them, or if they choose, smoke pot to the detriment of their health but in all other respects do not affect others?

3) The issue of money. It seems to be 'immoral' to adduce financial factors as reasons for legalising pot. The truth is, NOT considering the financial and social impact of over-policing marijuana use is the real immoral act (or rather, immoral omission).

Resources spent on incarcerating users and sellers, and policing and prosecuting a relatively harmless activity (ie. recreational pot use or mere possession) means resources NOT spent on things that are of greater benefit to society.

Much like alcohol, people are going to use pot one way or the other. Resources funnelling into organised crime as a result of pot being illegal causes far greater damage to society (eg. criminals with more money to fund the arms and human trades) than the relatively minor (or negligible) damage caused to society through legal pot use.

I'm not saying marijuana has ZERO negative effects, health or otherwise. However, sometimes the medicine (oppressive bans on pot) we apply to cure the ill (pot use) is so disproportionate that the medicine itself becomes the greater negative effect.