∂xƒ ≈ Windmills of your mind?

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BananaPie

Guest
#21
Seems to be lots of generalizations being made.
Correct. Most of CC traffic are neither medical professionals (Psychiatrists, PhD Psychologists, MD, etc.) nor are we professional counselors. The thread is open for discussion based on personal experience of observed behavior within the Christian community. :)

Some of what i've seen here is sad to read and think that Christians believe it is right. As if this is a topic easily resolved. If what you read makes you sad, what do you think the rest of us read and make us sad? That's the whole point. There is mental instability among Christians --which makes us sad,-- and it'd be interesting to learn, to understand how can we cope with them, since this is not a topic easily resolved.

Some people don't take meds because they don't have the financial capabilities.
Correct. But does lack of finances relieve the egocentric from his/her responsibility to subject his/her ego to the Bible's behavioral recommendations the rest of us are subject to? :)

Some are aware that meds don't always work and sometimes exacerbate existing problems. And until you try it there's no way to know how you will be affected. This entire thought is absolutely true. Frankly, there are no meds to curve egocentricity, or self-adoration, but for ADHD, for example, there are meds available and affordable. In some cases, the pharmaceutical manufacturer may even provide the med for free to qualified households.

And, really, some of this requires being in judgment over others.
...uh... requires?

Nobody is judging anybody. That's the point. How do Christians kindly speak frankly to another Christian who is egocentric? It's unfair, frankly to brush the behavior off as if it doesn't exist.


Unless you have a mental illness then you don't know what a person is feeling, or going through,
Well, I don't have a mental illness on Tuesdays, on Thanksgiving and on my birthday.
The rest of the time, my mental illness allows me to know what self-absorbed behavior feels like, sounds like, looks like and the damage it does to others.
:p

Okay seriously.

Ugly, are you saying that a Christian would never be able to recognize a self-center, attention-seeker Christian unless both Christians have a mental ill to compare notes?
:confused:

so to decide that it's a justification for their sins, to hide behind mental illness, is a judgment call most people don't have the right to make.
The discussion is not about deciding anything about sin. The discussion is about how do Christians cope when some Christians are egocentric drowning other believers into gossip, swinging them into guilt-trips for calling them out.

And the whole 'very nature of mental illness' comment is so way of base it's not even funny. Some folks here on CC work or have worked with Special Ed students, or are lic. therapists for adults with mental conditions. That kind of experience is not funny indeed. :)
Thank you, Ugly, for your comments. You bring up some very valid points. I enjoyed reading your post. :)
 
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ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
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#22
Also feel the need to say...

Mentally ill does not equal egocentric. Egocentrism is an issue of character, and if we're being honest, everyone is egocentric to a point. We can talk about how to deal with egocentric Christians, but that's a separate discussion entirely from how we address Christians dealing with mental illness.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#23
Also feel the need to say...

Mentally ill does not equal egocentric. ...We can talk about how to deal with egocentric Christians, but that's a separate discussion entirely from how we address Christians dealing with mental illness.
BINGO!

What has happened is that rather than admitting that it's an ego problem, some Christians "blame" or "proclaim to have" a mental problem, fueling other Christians to feel sorry for them to continue feeding their ego.

What's become interesting to observe is that those Christian clinically diagnosed with a mental condition are more willing to change towards a godly character than the egocentric Christian with no clinical diagnose.


It's a vicious circle; hence the theme song for this thread. :)




 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,695
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#24
Given your posts I kind of got the feeling your real beef wasn't with mentally ill people, but with egotistical people. I didn't want to say anything though because you were ostensibly talking about the mentally ill.
 

ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
102
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#25
BINGO!

What has happened is that rather than admitting that it's an ego problem, some Christians "blame" or "proclaim to have" a mental problem, fueling other Christians to feel sorry for them to continue feeding their ego.

What's become interesting to observe is that those Christian clinically diagnosed with a mental condition are more willing to change towards a godly character than the egocentric Christian with no clinical diagnose.


It's a vicious circle; hence the theme song for this thread. :)
I'm sorry, BananaPie, but that was absolutely not the point of my post. Mental illness is real. I don't mean to be rude or harsh, but it is very ignorant to suggest that mental illness is an excuse for an attitude problem. Mental illness is a very real thing that people suffer from.

The point of my post was to say that just because a person is egocentric does not mean that they are mentally ill, and just because a person is mentally ill does not mean that they are egocentric. They are completely different, unrelated things.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#26
Given your posts I kind of got the feeling your real beef wasn't with mentally ill people, but with egotistical people.
That's correct. Both mentally clinical and non-clinical Christians may exhibit egocentric adulation, so how do the rest of us deal with these folks with respect to their ego? Mind you, some pastors, bishops have over-rated egos as well.

How are we to relate to these people?
Would it be polite to say, "Bishop Kelly, why are you mad at me for saying that you have an ego problem?
Do we let the Bishop continue to harvest adulation?

I sure wouldn't go about the congregation telling others my opinion of Bishop Ego or whatever. For one, the Bishop would get mad a me also. For two, my opinion is not going to deliver him from his ego, will it?

Now suppose Bishop Kelly suffers trauma to the head and gradually becomes egocentric, self-consumed, whatever.
How do we cope with Bishop Ego in that condition?
Do we continue to be his friend?
If so, how do we befriend him without giving him the adulation he craves?
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#27
I'm sorry, BananaPie, but that was absolutely not the point of my post.
Oh, forgive me for missing your point.
It has to do with "You know you're getting old when..." :)

Mental illness is real.
Correct, and mental illness does exist among Christians. :)

I don't mean to be rude or harsh, but it is very ignorant to suggest that mental illness is an excuse for an attitude problem. Mental illness is a very real thing that people suffer from.
You're not rude, and I'm enjoying reading your thoughts.

The point of my post was to say that just because a person is egocentric does not mean that they are mentally ill, and just because a person is mentally ill does not mean that they are egocentric. They are completely different, unrelated things.
Correct.
Why, then, do you suppose an egocentric would rather tell other Christians that he/she suffers from a mental condition to grab the Christians' continual sympathy than to come out clean admitting there's nothing clinical about him/her, it's just a self-infatuation problem?
BTW, a Christian who craves attention, whether it be "woe-is-me" or "look at me!" mentality does have something not normal about their behavior. So, how do y'all deal with these Christians?
 
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Ugly

Guest
#28
Thank you, Ugly, for your comments. You bring up some very valid points. I enjoyed reading your post. :)
Actually, your post was the only one i read when i wrote that. And what i meant by sad was the attitude toward people with mental illness and the false claims and accusations i see said against them.
 

ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
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#29
BananaPie said:
Correct.
Why, then, do you suppose an egocentric would rather tell other Christians that he/she suffers from a mental condition to grab the Christians' continual sympathy than to come out clean admitting there's nothing clinical about him/her, it's just a self-infatuation problem?
The thing is, this isn't something that most people encounter, so I think what's confusing is that you're speaking about this scenario as if it is really common when it's really not. I don't know anyone who has pretended to have a mental illness to get attention and I'm not sure anyone else here has either. So are you asking this question based on someone that you know who is doing this?

By the way, I would advise against accusing someone who says they have a mental illness of lying and using it to cover up their sin. That is just not a good idea at all.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#30
...what's confusing is that you're speaking about this scenario as if it is really common when it's really not.
The topic of the thread is about how do Christians cope with other Christians who,

a) have behavior issues due to clinical mental instability and lack the capacity to understand the difference;

b) have behavior issue due to clinical mental conditions; they can tame the behavior with rx meds, but chose not to;

c) have behavior issue due an egocentric mindset.
In other words, how do you, as a believer, cope with difficult Christians?
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#31
I think now I'm a little lost with this whole thread, after reading through it...

Is it meant to be about how we, as Christians, deal with brothers and sisters with mental illnesses?

Yes.
Is it about how we deal with sinful behaviors of our brothers and sisters?
No, More about, how do we not contribute to other's wrong behaviors?

Is it about a particular person with a particular behavioral pattern and how said person should be dealt with?
​Nah. It's a general thought I'm seeing more of among Christians. Another believer thought that the problem was due to the ripple effect of the Hippie generation. Their drug abuse may have yielded an offspring with chemical imbalance. Plus that compounded with the anonymity of the internet where you can be whomever your want to be.

I would think in any case, we are to show love and compassion, while putting in place proper boundaries- that means lines we don't allow them to cross with us, and also lines we refuse to cross with them (losing our tempers or patience with them, shaming them, etc...). ...If there's a problem they're causing, it should be addressed in the same way as any other problem caused by any other person- privately and directly and out of love.
Totally love it!! Now, how do we make those parameters known to them without compromising the situation further?

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of the thread though...
Frankly, I believe you understood the windmills of my mind down to the letter! :D
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
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#32
You hang in there. With all of those types mentioned.
You hope to spark something and eventually ( with our Lord's grace) they come to open up on where it all (individual problem) stem from. I recently talked to a man who has helped numerous people who have MPD. (Multiple Personality Disorder) At first he said he assumed all mental illness was from demons in some way or another. He was put in his place, I guess? Because as he got to know them, he saw that it can stem back to some really deep childhood memories/experiences. Unfortunately he couldn't help some, but those he helped to lose their "other personalities" came to eventually know Christ.
Absolutely amazing...imagine the scientific/health care community if they heard that Christ can do, what their textbooks claim was next to impossible? Each case is unique in life-so it is hard to come up with a blanket solution.
Our Lord is amazing.
 

gypsygirl

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2012
1,394
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#33
you know, i think that for some, it's more difficult than others to see people act in ways that are decidedly destructive, attention-seeking, and not necessarily stable/healthy. for me, it's not as upsetting, because i don't see them as projects or people who i need to "make behave", but rather, broken, not unlike me.

i think most importantly, we are called to treat them with love, and acceptance, while being not sucked into their drama. this is why we need to know what healthy boundaries are, that we are not called to "save" or fix" people, but pray for them, encourage healthy choices and when necessary, protect ourselves from their drama.

we need to assume the best, and not the worst. we need to offer generosity and mercy, more than judgment and be quick to understand that especially on the internet, we can't always be sure of everything. so we choose to offer the benefit of the doubt, even when we think we have it all figured out.

i also want to underscore chandlerfan's point earlier. to be clear, much of mental illness, perhaps even most common, isn't egocentric and attention seeking. but some can be downright scary, and we need to protect ourselves with good boundaries. we should all be googling our info and checking what information is available online, and how vulnerable we are to those who appear to be benign.

but i think our challenge as christians, is to know the bible--our measuring stick and compass, along with healthy boundaries and expectations. that will be our best defense in how we act around others. to recognize and identify the standards for our OWN behavior, so that we can distinguish between when we are called to step back, privately approach a brother or sister, and of course, fulfill what our greatest calling is, to love God with all our heart and soul, and second, to love others.

we have a powerful opportunity (actually, edict) to show the world Who Christ is by loving His people, and perhaps it is the ones who challenge, confuse, and create drama that we can illustrate and accomplish this best.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#34
...Unfortunately he couldn't help some, but those he helped to lose their "other personalities" came to eventually know Christ.
Absolutely amazing...
Amazing and encouraging indeed.

As you know, we all have our quirks, eccentricities, weaknesses and strengths.

Yes, the Lord has been very generous allowing His saints to see how very selfishly insane we are outside the lucid mind of Christ, which only the Holy Spirit of God reveals. I couldn't survive the next hour without my Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for sharing to good God is doing in others. There is heavenly hope for all whosoever wills. :)
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#35
you know, i think that for some, it's more difficult than others to see people act in ways that are decidedly destructive, attention-seeking, and not necessarily stable/healthy. for me, it's not as upsetting, because i don't see them as projects or people who i need to "make behave", but rather, broken, not unlike me.
Yes, I understand the broken, and I do become distraught when fellow believers become broken due to difficult Christians.

i think most importantly, we are called to treat them with love, and acceptance, while being not sucked into their drama. this is why we need to know what healthy boundaries are, that we are not called to "save" or fix" people, but pray for them, encourage healthy choices and when necessary, protect ourselves from their drama.
Wow! That's my quirk there: healthy boundaries.
The Bible has plenty of healthy recommendations, but when a difficult Christian refuses to apply these recommendations --humility, for example-- to himself/herself, would that be your queue it's time to distance yourself from "the drama"?


we need to assume the best, and not the worst. we need to offer generosity and mercy, more than judgment and be quick to understand that especially on the internet, we can't always be sure of everything.
...Tell me about it... :rolleyes:
Does Catfish ring a bell? :p

...to be clear, much of mental illness, perhaps even most common, isn't egocentric and attention seeking. but some can be downright scary,
...Tell me about it; I'm Nurse Ratched. eek.


but i think our challenge as christians, is to know the bible--our measuring stick and compass,
Bingo!
"For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain."
The Lord Jesus already said, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters" (Matthew 12:30).

If a difficult Christian refuses to understand the Lord, what makes me believe they will understand my words? :)


we have a powerful opportunity (actually, edict) to show the world Who Christ is by loving His people, and perhaps it is the ones who challenge, confuse, and create drama that we can illustrate and accomplish this best. Amen.
...and you, my dear sister, are a heavenly treasure! Hugs in Christ. :)