Just what is on your minimum required list? How many and which works are needed to qualify?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Works and Salvation
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For the cause of Christ
Roger
you want to see a list from someone but you are not obligated to show your faith.....
I'm not the one claiming works to be mandatory. If I made the claim I would endeavor to establish it, perhaps with a list. My claim is that grace is sufficient and that works do not add to nor are they required to establish grace.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
actually they cancel out grace.
if it is of grace, it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace is how i think Paul put it.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If he has faith, he will show his faith, there is no obligation about it.
So where is your list. if work is required, there has to be a list, otherwise we may not do enough, and will miss out on salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
once again, there is no such thing as faith which does not work.
Are you going to tell me if you do not do anything your father asks, and disobey him in all he says (his word you hear) you have faith (trust) in your father.
You would be a liar if you even tried to say you had faith in your father, and everyone who knows you would tell you that.
it is no different with God
The heresy is the man-made idea that faith only saves.
Can you go through your whole life and never do any obedient works in doing God's will, no good works of any kind and still be saved?
1 Jn 1:7 can the Christian refuse to do the work of walking in the light but have his sins all cleansed away anyway?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No it is works. it is not a faith without works, there is no such thing,
You can claim you have faith all you want, if you do not have works to prove you actually trust the word you hear, your a liar.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
actually you have it backwords.
You would never be in a saved state, Sealed by the spirit, given the spirit to teach you all things, and chasten you when you screw up. and not do any work. it is impossible.
I was discussing faith.....and you said faith does not require proof...we all understand we are saved by grace through faith...can you show the faith that saved you without works...???Originally Posted by newbirth
did I ask for proof ...I said show me your faith without works.... Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
I can see Abraham's faith.....
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I can see Noah's faith
show me yours....the one through which you were saved ....
but you preach it you say it is the faith that saves you ...you just believe and you are saved...if I am wrong and it is someone else ...then forgive me....
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No,
It is more than believe
A legalist believes in jesus, he does not have faith in him, his faith is in his works.
the licentious believe in jesus, But he has no faith in him, his faith is again in himself (he thinks his sin is ok)
if one has faith in Christ, they will work. because they trust him in the first place.
again, if you say you have faith in your father, yet do nothign he says to do (his word) your a liar. you have no faith in him whatever, it is dead.
Eph 3:4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)"
Paul said one can understand by reading. Nothing miraculous necessary to understand.
Too many people, [just on this forum alone] claim to have been "spriitually discerned' but contradict each other all over the place.
In the context, J n 16:13 the Comforter that guides to all truth was being promised to the apostles, not you or me.
Paul further says Eph 5:17 "Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is."
If it requires an act by the Holy Spirit for one to understand and one does not understand, then his foolishness-being unwise would be the fault of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is culpable for all the unlearned. How could Paul command them to be not unwise when that would be completely, totally out of their control? The command implies their ability and responsibility to understand and not the Holy Spirit's.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
why are you ignoring the father example?
You can say you have faith in your father all you want.
If you do not do anything he says (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word) your a liar. you have no faith in him whatever, your faith is dead.
P
Paroikou
Guest
True - we are saved by Grace.
The difference between works to be be saved and Christian works is that works are like fruit. The fruit comes from the tree, we do not bring fruit to hang on the tree.
Be careful. Many teachings out there are designed to fill pews and not deliver truth:
"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words"
The concept or "Once saved always saved" is contradicted everywhere with many "if" clauses and warnings against against US falling away, such as that in Hebrews 3:
"Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. (Please read entire context)
Many more such warnings exist. The contrary argument is developed with much philosophy and clever sophistry to convince us we cannot throw away this great gift.
We know God does not give empty warnings. And though it is true, our names are written in the book of life there is no guarantee of permanence, as revealed in Revelation 3.
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
The difference between works to be be saved and Christian works is that works are like fruit. The fruit comes from the tree, we do not bring fruit to hang on the tree.
Be careful. Many teachings out there are designed to fill pews and not deliver truth:
"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words"
The concept or "Once saved always saved" is contradicted everywhere with many "if" clauses and warnings against against US falling away, such as that in Hebrews 3:
"Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. (Please read entire context)
Many more such warnings exist. The contrary argument is developed with much philosophy and clever sophistry to convince us we cannot throw away this great gift.
We know God does not give empty warnings. And though it is true, our names are written in the book of life there is no guarantee of permanence, as revealed in Revelation 3.
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
you are straying ....the faith that saves you is it faith alone or does it have works....????
simple question...what is the work for the faith that saves you....men and brethren what shall we do????...is it just believe???
you are implying works is not required...
now you are saying you must have works...
here you are saying one is saved by faith without works and after they are saved faith produces works
You misuse the scriptures and abuse the context. 1 Corinthians 1:23 we preach Christ crucified to the Jews a stumbling block to the Gentiles foolishness. 27 God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.
You cannot know Spiritual things apart from the Holy Spirit given to all men without measure.
For the cause of Christ
Roger