If Man Has No Role In His Own Salvation......

[SeaBass]

Abel did not do any work. the spotless lamb did the work, He died in abel's place.

What a stretch to get around what the bible teaches!!!!!!!

Heb 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

 

[Chopper]

I think there is a slight confusion here...

The Mashiah said he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.
That does not make the law to no effect.
The requirement of the law is death for the transgression of the law.
It is appointed to man once to die, then comes the judgement to life, or to the second death, from which there is no resurrection.
Our Father in the shamayim (heaven/s), Yahuwah, sent His only Bĕn (Son), who paid the price setting us free from the law of sin and death by His own offering and sacrifice, whereby all we have to do is believe in Him, asking for His forgiveness, and asking Him into our heart and life as our Master. When this happens, Yahuwah no longer sees our sins as we have asked forgiveness for, but sees the final sacrifice made for us though Yahushua. It is in Him that we have life, and life everlasting. There is no other way.

The law of sin and death was also made the law of life in the Ruah (Spirit), and we are no longer to attempt to serve that law in the flesh or mind, because those are at enmity against Elohim, but rather in the Ruah of Yahuwah who resides in us. He is our Intercessor and High Counselor before the throne of Elohim, and if He is who is for us, then who can be against us?

 

[newbirth]

if we do works of the law to get saved, we work.

if we do them in faith out of love, they are righteous works.

again, you contradict yourself.

works of the law done NOT TO BE SAVED are works of faith.

bro that is not babbling only...but wrestling with the word...I made no comment just posted scripture....you write four lines and in them you say..... again I contradict myself but they are your words...we are not under law but you seem to be making new laws....where are the scriptures to back your opinions...?

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 Thessalonians 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power

 

[prove-all]

lol. do what? this makes no sense.

Abel did what God commanded, The sacrifice represented Christ, an innocent whos blood was shed, and caused remmision of sin.

Cain was a religious zeolot, He gave of his hard works. He killed cain because he was jealose. and angry god rejected his works. Just like the pharisees who killed christ because Christ told them all their religious works were useless,

Just like catholics kill anyone who taught works were not necessary for salvation.



Abel did not do any work. the spotless lamb did the work, He died in abel's place.

so what verse did God commanded Abel ?


what verse says Christ is lamb represented not AbelThe sacrifice represented Christ?

Cain was a religious zeolot? verse please

Cains works and offering was not heartfelt, ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward

where does it says cain gave of his hard earned work, he robbed from God

because (his own works) were evil, (and) his brother's (rightous).

Abel did not do any work?
bible verse above says Abels (works) where rightous, and his brothers was not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

bro that is not babbling only...but wrestling with the word...I made no comment just posted scripture....you write four lines and in them you say..... again I contradict myself but they are your words...we are not under law but you seem to be making new laws....where are the scriptures to back your opinions...?

Your problem is you do not listen to a word anyone says, You think you know what they are saying, and think these verses back your faulty belief, But they do not.

I said, Works of the law done NOT TO SAVE YOURSELF are works of faith. And you come at me with this? Did you even read what I wrote.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Agree, The law is knowledge of sin, If you do it because you trust God. you doing a work of faith. If your trying not to sin to save yourself. Your disobeying these passages.

By the works of the law. no one will be saved, but the law is not done away with. We do them in faith.

1 Thessalonians 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power

Doing works of the law in faith fulfill both of these passages.

How do you think we show our faith is real and not dead? Or do you feel you can go on and disobey the law and sin all yuo want, As long as yuo do religious works not of the law? WHo is trying to excuse their sin here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so what verse did God commanded Abel ?


what verse says Christ is lamb represented not AbelThe sacrifice represented Christ?

Cain was a religious zeolot? verse please

Cains works and offering was not heartfelt, ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward

where does it says cain gave of his hard earned work, he robbed from God

because (his own works) were evil, (and) his brother's (rightous).

Abel did not do any work?
bible verse above says Abels (works) where rightous, and his brothers was not

Talk about babel. nothing you said here makes any sense.

As for the lamb slain, what do you think God was trying to show by having abel slaughter the lamb, do you think he came up on his own?

 

[dcontroversal]

....still did not address the fact Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

No work = no everlasting life. Jesus settled it.

Still twisted out of context while ignoring....NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE

And there is no hope in your tainted theology......how many works required..1, 10. 500.....your heresy leaves no hope as the bible states clearly saved dia faith based upon GRACE NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast.....

You will be bumming when you take your last breath while believing in CAINOLOGY.........hope you like it hot!

 

[dcontroversal]

Talk about babel. nothing you said here makes any sense.

As for the lamb slain, what do you think God was trying to show by having abel slaughter the lamb, do you think he came up on his own?

They have no concept that God looks for and passes over when he sees the blood applied by faith.....without works and or immersion....as neither have anything to do with obtaining eternal salvation/life!

 

[newbirth]

Your problem is you do not listen to a word anyone says, You think you know what they are saying, and think these verses back your faulty belief, But they do not.

I said, Works of the law done NOT TO SAVE YOURSELF are works of faith. And you come at me with this? Did you even read what I wrote.


Agree, The law is knowledge of sin, If you do it because you trust God. you doing a work of faith. If your trying not to sin to save yourself. Your disobeying these passages.

By the works of the law. no one will be saved, but the law is not done away with. We do them in faith.


Doing works of the law in faith fulfill both of these passages.

How do you think we show our faith is real and not dead? Or do you feel you can go on and disobey the law and sin all yuo want, As long as yuo do religious works not of the law? WHo is trying to excuse their sin here?

this is what I call playing smart with foolishness....originally I posted there is works of the law and there is works of faith....you said I contradict myself...I showed you works of the law with scripture and works of faith with scripture.... you rejected them with babbling....Now you say I don't listen to anyone...and you post some more babble .... only to say there is a work of faith and a work of the law...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is what I call playing smart with foolishness....originally I posted there is works of the law and there is works of faith....you said I contradict myself...I showed you works of the law with scripture and works of faith with scripture.... you rejected them with babbling....Now you say I don't listen to anyone...and you post some more babble .... only to say there is a work of faith and a work of the law...

lol.. And I proved you wrong, Because works of the law done in faith is the same as works done in faith.

You have yet to prove me wrong, so the only babble is you.

The pharisees did the works of the law to get saved, they were NOT WORKS OF FAITH. thats the part you do not get.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They have no concept that God looks for and passes over when he sees the blood applied by faith.....without works and or immersion....as neither have anything to do with obtaining eternal salvation/life!

they do not understand. If I honor my parents, because I have heard the word of the Lord say to do so will be well for you (a blessing) I have obeyed the law, and done a work of faith.

If however, I do it, like the pharisees and others, because I think God will use that work to let me into heaven, I am using a work of the law to be saved, and it is not a work of faith

 

[prove-all]

Talk about babel. nothing you said here makes any sense.

As for the lamb slain, what do you think God was trying to show by having abel slaughter the lamb, do you think he came up on his own?

ok let me go a little slower

you said Abel did what God commanded

I ask for verse what God told Abel

you said The sacrifice represented Christ, an innocent whos blood was shed, and caused remmision of sin.

I ask for verse to show corolation

you said Cain was a religious zeolot

for God?I ask for verse

you said cain had a heartfelt offering, i sayed he was in error and greedy

you said Just like the pharisees who killed christ because Christ told them all their religious works were useless,

I ask for verse to back up this claim


you said Abel did not do any work

i post verse, because (his own works) were evil, (and) his brother's (rightous).

you ask do you think he came up on his own?

I ask from begging what Holy day of Gods these men where presenting themself to God on ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok let me go a little slower

you said Abel did what God commanded

I ask for verse what God told Abel

you said The sacrifice represented Christ, an innocent whos blood was shed, and caused remmision of sin.

I ask for verse to show corolation

you said Cain was a religious zeolot

for God?I ask for verse

you said cain had a heartfelt offering, i sayed he was in error and greedy

you said Just like the pharisees who killed christ because Christ told them all their religious works were useless,

I ask for verse to back up this claim


you said Abel did not do any work

i post verse, because (his own works) were evil, (and) his brother's (rightous).

you ask do you think he came up on his own?

I ask from begging what Holy day of Gods these men where presenting themself to God on ?

and I asked you to tell me where Abel decided to kill an innocent animal as a sacrifice to God. do you think he just came up with it? it does not need to be in the bible to KNOW God asked him to do it. Sacrifice did not start with the law. How do you think God was going to show the people after sin how he was going to take care of sin.

come on, are you really going to deny God asked him to do this?

and by the way, human good is evil. It is self motivated.

If I get baptised because God said so, I am doing a work of righteousnes.

If I get baptized to get saved then I am doing a work of evil.

 

[prove-all]

and I asked you to tell me where Abel decided to kill an innocent animal as a sacrifice to God. do you think he just came up with it? it does not need to be in the bible to KNOW God asked him to do it. Sacrifice did not start with the law. How do you think God was going to show the people after sin how he was going to take care of sin.

come on, are you really going to deny God asked him to do this?

and by the way, human good is evil. It is self motivated.

If I get baptised because God said so, I am doing a work of righteousnes.

If I get baptized to get saved then I am doing a work of evil.

i started in post #152 i asked

-both had works and offering, what holy day was this to present themselfs ?

no one answered

Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:

had to be one of Gods (not jews) Holy convocations by oral command

​

27Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement:
it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls,
and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
28And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement,
to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.

also how about

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before theLord,
and Satan came also among them.


1Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,
and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

did the angeles have to go, did satan have to go, invited or forced?

is this the same as cain and abels day, today in future ?

“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem
shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts,
and to keep the feast of tabernacles”

 

[newbirth]

If I get baptised because God said so, I am doing a work of righteousnes.

If I get baptized to get saved then I am doing a work of evil.

so now Christ told us to do evil
Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


I guess repent and be baptised for the remission of sins is a greater evil.....

something is terribly wrong with you bro ...you need prayers....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so now Christ told us to do evil
Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


I guess repent and be baptised for the remission of sins is a greater evil.....

something is terribly wrong with you bro ...you need prayers....

No. Christ did not tell us to do evil.

People has taken Gods command and made an evil work of it.

Just like the jews did with circumcision. God commanded it, was that evil. yet paul condemned those trying to add it to a work of the gospel to save you.

 

[dcontroversal]

No. Christ did not tell us to do evil.

People has taken Gods command and made an evil work of it.

Just like the jews did with circumcision. God commanded it, was that evil. yet paul condemned those trying to add it to a work of the gospel to save you.

Man he likes to add to what we say and or twist what we say......seems he is Mr. Twisty number 2 or 3 maybe 4 as Mr. Twisty has man cousins......

 

[prove-all]

No. Christ did not tell us to do evil.

People has taken Gods command and made an evil work of it.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

they use the grace of God and turn it into lawlessness​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

they use the grace of God and turn it into lawlessness​

yep. and as Jude says, their condemnation was already in place.

But the jews trying to add works to get saved had the same condemnation.

legalism is just as dangerous as licentiousness. They both are rooted in pride (self)

 

[newbirth]

lol.. And I proved you wrong, Because works of the law done in faith is the same as works done in faith.

You have yet to prove me wrong, so the only babble is you.

The pharisees did the works of the law to get saved, they were NOT WORKS OF FAITH. thats the part you do not get.

which makes works of the law not done in faith ...... works of the law....so there is works of faith and works of the law....

so all you proved is there is works of the law and works of faith

it really does not look good for you bro....